http://www.infdaily.com/2011/01/exclusive-kate-gosselin-lifts-her-own-child-pics.html
Friday, January 21, 2011
Kate picks up four of sextuplets from school yesterday
Those kindergartener backpacks look so stuffed full. Perhaps with make-up work? We feel so sorry for the kids about how much school they’ve been forced to miss. 
http://www.infdaily.com/2011/01/exclusive-kate-gosselin-lifts-her-own-child-pics.html
http://www.infdaily.com/2011/01/exclusive-kate-gosselin-lifts-her-own-child-pics.html
316 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 316 of 316 Newer› Newest»IDModo I understand what you are saying, however, IF they are an expose' of what is REALLY happening, as opposed to the fluff that TLC puts out, I would think that would HELP the kids, not classified as getting on the gravy train? Many people are really ignorant of what really goes on.
@Carol,
Sorry about the sheeple thing,that was a mistake, I have been mistaken for a sheeple once and I was just as offended so I am sorry about that. And it is also true that when talking to the sheeple there is no room for mistake.For the record, when I said "in a way that would make any sheeple proud" I only meant just as sheeple do(even though you're not one) as I had already realized my mistake.I didn't choose the best way to address it, that's for sure.
Again, I do not doubt people on this blog do know what the deal is with this whole fertility story. I doubt the sheeple really know.But I also really feel that I was unfairly and excessively criticized over that mistake, as saying IVF instead of IUI only makes the description of the procedure wrong, nothing else of what I said after that.
Speaking only for myself, I am one who has eschewed tlc and any show that featured Kate; the talk shows because she lies, DWTS because she has demonstrated from the beginning that she is lazy. I will not be watching a documentary that rehashes this sad story or buying books that will have the effect of continued exploitation the these poor children.
There is film of her abuse of these children. Why has nothing been done to stop her?
Isn't it about time to look at and REVISE the child abuse laws? Should they vary by State?
IdModo has mentioned that the law in PA doesn't seem to protect children well enough. I think that is a good place to invest some energy. Kate is abusing those kids because the current law ALLOWS it.
BBB-I would be really happy if more people would look at this aspect of the Gosselin saga.
Simply put, the way the Child Abuse Legislation is written in PA makes the burden of proof too difficult.Abuse must be SEVERE. Emotional abuse must be Non-Intentional. Please, I beg you, people, google the PA Child Abuse Laws and at least read them.
Now that Rep.Murt has his new portfolio including the Dept. of Public Welfare, these laws are now under his jurisdiction.He has been made aware that they are inadequate.Emails to him about the need to change them would be helpful.
Re the notion that effective Child Labour Laws will clear this up: A "set teacher' can only stop abuse during the childrens' workday. A change in the Child Abuse Laws can stop it ALL THE TIME.
Girl Friday said...
Werny Girl posted that they did read all the blogs, pro and con. This ETHS does not include interviews with Jon or Kate, though I think they may have been asked to comment, neither J or K would. It tries to present a 'reasonable' account of the story.
Thank you for updating me. It's been a busy weekend (our son was away & the mice will play!) I haven't had a chance to read up on WG's site. I'm going to head over there later & read up on the E! THS updates. Thanks again! :) Again, I hope this will be honest, in that it shows Kate's true colors; greedy, grifting from the get-go, child exploitation, etc. This could be the big, fat SPIKE in her so-called 15 minutes, which have been up for quite some time.
Lolly said...
IDModo I understand what you are saying, however, IF they are an expose' of what is REALLY happening, as opposed to the fluff that TLC puts out, I would think that would HELP the kids, not classified as getting on the gravy train? Many people are really ignorant of what really goes on.
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Lolly, you have put your finger (keyboard?) on the problem. It's not good that so many people - all of us included - are so invested in these children's lives. BUT, without all these eyes on what's happening to them, how would it ever change?
What if no one ever called Kate on the lies, the mistreatment of the children, the theft of their lives? Then not only would these children be thrown away, but the path would have been smoothed for the next family of adorable babies. And the next one. And the next one.
In that case, no laws would change, no parents would think twice before selling their families down the river.
There's been enough of an outcry in Pennsylvania that state rep. Murt is on this case. Without blogs like this one, that would never have happened.
It's a really unfortunate irony that only more publicity can result in the kind of outrage that might prevent future abuses.
But it's a whole lot better that there's a light shining on everything this woman does to hurt her children that it would be if she just had her way until they were 18.
I agree Kate is a liar and doesn't even know how to tell the truth. It boggles my mind that the TV shows will bring her on to 'set the record straight' when with just a teensy bit of research on their part, they would know all she does is lie to make Jon look bad and her look like a saint -- and the sheeple eat it up.
As far as how and why the kids got here, we can speculate from now on whether she did or didn't plan on multiples so she could become rich and famous. But the fact is, they are here, they are healthy -- and that is what matters. It's just tragic that the courts will not do anything to protect these children from their narcissistic, sick mother.
@Roxanne....
Thank you for explaining the whole IVF thing. I honestly didn't understand WHY the hell the doctor would allow such a thing to occur to a seemingly young & healthy couple JUST starting out. Isn't that, UM, illegal? Why hasn't the doctor been called out for this? And Kate, oh Kate, knowing full well what was going to happen chose to do the bonky-bonk with her over-stimulated ovaries, again, fully knowing she could produce a ton of kids.
She SOUGHT this. She was obsessed with having a bunch of kids because of the Mcaughe....oh damn, I don't know how to spell their names, but the other family there, the one that had sextuplets? And she carried that book of theirs like a bible. I hope THAT is in her trashy THS. And that doctor who did that procedure? Wherever he is, he is either kicking himself for the pain he has put upon those Gosselin children for being involved, or he feels like a fool because Kate tricked him. Or both. That doctor should be investigated. And so should Kate. Doesn't PSOD or whatever Kate insisted she had in the first place, continue though out life & is painful? IDK. Another lie from Kate. Eff her.
Carol said...
I'm sorry if there is a snarky tone to this, but the comment about your education just didn't sit right with me, nor did the way you felt you needed to explain the different procedures. A pre-med student does not a Gosselin expert make. Nor does it make one any better than all of the other wonderful, educated, and informed people who blog here. While you may be excited about your upcoming career, I strongly caution you to remain humble and think about those who just may know more about the subject than you.
Sorry if I'm stepping over the line here but there is No need for that. Roxanne was just trying to be helpful. I think she did a great job, getting IUI & IVF mixed up? So what? Let's all get along here! :)
Hippie Chick said (in reference to the Gosselin's doctor)
Why hasn't the doctor been called out for this?
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Probably because the DOCTOR did nothing wrong.
This is pretty strong evidence for what many people believe happened:
Kate hyper-stimulated and was told by the doctor, appropriately, to skip that cycle.
Then Kate went home and did the opposite because twins were not enough to catapult her into HOM celebrity status.
If this is what happened, the PATIENT is the unethical, immoral person here, not the doctor.
Hence, there's no point in going after the doctor.
Whatever the scenario, there's a preponderance of evidence that at least one of the people involved has a long, and well-documented history of incessant lies.
It's not much of a stretch to assume that this was just one more of a rather long list of fertility lies told by this woman. Not to mention the long list of ever other kind of lie she's told.
IdModo- are there examples of States or Provinces that have more progressive and clearly stated abuse laws?
I suspect that some parents fear they will lose the right to spank their child. There has to be a reasonable definition of abuse that won't cause problems for good parents who spank- right?
How do we clearly define abuse so that the law doesn't accidentally hurt innocent parents? Am I making sense?
knowldege is power said... I agree with everything you said! And your nick is very applicable, knowledge IS power. Well said, indeed.
I have written to my legislators in my area regarding the laws on the books here, and lack of to protect the innocent.
Silence is condoning. Silence gets nothing accomplished.
Yes, not only does Kate not look like she has PCOS, but Jon told that college audience that he had a vasectomy. Why did he need to get a vasectomy?
Hippie Chick, apparently Kate got pregnant using a different method, bound to result in multiples just like IVF.
Here's how I see things:
These procedures are for people who cannot have children.There are perfectly legal procedures and in many cases are bringing so much joy to people who really want a child(their own flash and blood, not adopted even though I still think Kate should have adopted a child,there are so many starving kids in this world-you know, instead of bringing 6 and screw up their lives.By no means am I saying the Gosselin 6 do not deserve to be alive, I am saying they deserved so much better). Problem is, some people like Nadya Suleman abuse these procedures. We know for sure that Nadya Suleman's doctor was irresponsible and has paid for it but we cannot say the Gosselins' doctor was the same.IMO
And I think you are referring to the McCaughey Septuplets..Yes, they said they didn't reduce because of their believes and guess what? 13 years later there are only a couple of short specials of these kids and they were raised almost in anonymity and have normal lives and their parents managed to "provide" for them without a reality show.And two of the kids have cerebral palsy...
IDModo or Admin., can you post a link to the PA Child Abuse Laws? I'm having difficulty locating them on the state website (I went to www.state.PA.us).
Hippie Chick said... @Roxanne....
Thank you for explaining the whole IVF thing. I honestly didn't understand WHY the hell the doctor would allow such a thing to occur to a seemingly young & healthy couple JUST starting out. Isn't that, UM, illegal? Why hasn't the doctor been called out for this? And Kate, oh Kate, knowing full well what was going to happen chose to do the bonky-bonk with her over-stimulated ovaries, again, fully knowing she could produce a ton of kids.
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Based on my understanding of Kate's book MB, along with "reading between the lines", after producing a large amt. of eggs, the dr. not only cautioned her to skip that mo., he ordered her directly to the hospital, for the pain and possibly to keep them from getting preg. on their own. It is my belief that Kate went home that day to pack for the hospital and that is when she and Jon had sex. I would guess Jon was somewhat clueless as to how the whole process 'worked' and probably had no idea what was happening that day he got manipulated into having sex w/Kate.
I also find it very suspicious that she went to a different dr. for the tups than she did for the twins. Remember, the twins, in Kate's eyes were a 'fail' (IMO), cause she wanted the HOM's that go around. I think she got a little more devious the next go round. Why, when according to her book, the 2nd dr, was much farther away from her home than the first, plus the first dr. had clearly succeeded in 'giving' them twins, would she travel farther? Why would she switch drs.? I still wonder if Kate wanted perhaps a dr. out of her 'area' that she didn't work with at the hospital, that didn't know her that well. Perhaps afraid the drs. would talk among themselves once her plan worked to get the HOMs? Clearly, I don't know. I DO know that Kate is conniving, deceitful, manipulative and lies and wants her OWN way. I would put money on it that she did something deceitful and most definitely immoral to become preg. with the tups.
How stupid, thoughtless, calculating and irresponsible do you have to be to not think of the long term consequences of a plan of that proportion, knowing you barely could manage the two you had. She wanted the tups for one reason only, to satisfy her insatiable ego.
But I also really feel that I was unfairly and excessively criticized over that mistake, as saying IVF instead of IUI only makes the description of the procedure wrong
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Roxanne - you were not unfairly or excessively criticized about your confusion of IUI and IVF, you were corrected. And that confusion was a big one, IMO, especially when you are proclaiming to us bloggers, sheeple or otherwise, that you know more than we because of your school concentration in pre-med. This happens to be one of K8's biggest lies and as Carol mentioned, it is important to keep the facts straight.
I agree with much of what you posted but your delivery leaves something to be desired.
Reading Between the Lines, great comments. And yes, it is HIGHLY suspicious that K8 went to a different fertility doctor after the successful birth of the twins.
Dulcina- Here's where I got it . It used to be readily available on the state Gov't. website but it's now very hard to find.
www.jlc.org/files/publications/childabuseandthelaw7th.pdf
Keep in mind the words "severe", "repeated", "Intentional", and other words and phrases that make it extremely difficult to prove.
This can be compared for instance with child abuse laws in my home province, Ontario; or with the laws in Massachusetts, or many other states.
Lolly said... knowldege is power said... I agree with everything you said! And your nick is very applicable, knowledge IS power. Well said, indeed.
I have written to my legislators in my area regarding the laws on the books here, and lack of to protect the innocent.
Silence is condoning. Silence gets nothing accomplished
============================
Well said, Lolly. A wonderful quotation by Edmund Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Kate said there was a 7th fetus that was spontaneously aborted early in the pregnancy so therefore it is unknown whether it was identical or not.
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I was under the impression that it was actually only an egg sac and that she made the rest of the story up. In other words, no seventh baby, just the sac.
Reading between the lines said..."Why, when according to her book, the 2nd dr, was much farther away from her home than the first...would she travel farther?"
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The opposite is actually the case. (BTW, I'm not a sheeple!) According to MB, "I screeched, dove for the phone, and made an appointment with an infertility specialist right in Wyomissing, just minutes from our home. With my first pregnancy, I had driven an hour away to Allentown, Pennsylvania. Although I obviously had success with that doctor, I felt the convenience of seeing a respected doctor in our own town made much sense."
IDModo, thanks for the link. I will take a look at the PA abuse laws as I think they are very relevant to this situation.
Reading Between the Lines or anyone else who has read MB -
did K8 give a reason why she switched fertility docs after Mady and Cara were born ?
Heide - another indicator that something went awry. Why WOULD Jon get a vasectomy ? I keep forgetting about that tidbit.
KESUCKS -- I posted Kate's given reason a few lines up.
Sorry, I know it's K8SUCKS -- typo!
K8SUCKS said...
Why WOULD Jon get a vasectomy ? I keep forgetting about that tidbit.
Why wouldn't he? He has 8 kids. Isn't that enough?? And he is TRYING to co-parent with Kate of all people, that's gotta be difficult. Parenting another kid? I'm sure that is NOT on his list of things to do. He may have also got an irreversible vas. just in case too. We'll probably never know, & I'm OK with that. :) JMO
Lorrie said...
From MB: "I screeched, dove for the phone, and made an appointment with an infertility specialist right in Wyomissing, just minutes from our home. With my first pregnancy, I had driven an hour away to Allentown, Pennsylvania. Although I obviously had success with that doctor, I felt the convenience of seeing a respected doctor in our own town made much sense."
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I didn't read MB and wonder if you recall what happened that Kate screeched which prompted her to call a closer doctor. TIA
Why did a working nurse, with ties to a hospital and the medical community where she lived, choose a fertility specialist an hour away in the first place?
Nothing this woman says is believable, on any level.
She based that on a "gut feeling" she had all of her life that she would have a hard time getting pregnant. That had been in the works for a long time back when she was a teenager planning her future. She knew they would take her word for it and she had enough knowledge to know what to say. I doubt any fertility doctors ever request records, etc. I think Nadya's only reasoning was that she had been celibate for quite a number of years.
If she was infertile why would Jon need a vasectomy?
MB is a very good read and quite informative. Beth did a great job with that book. The slant of it kind of changed near the end. I think that may have been when she had become a bit more savvy and decided to put on a little spin on it. I made it all the way up to when they got on TV so never read the ending. I wouldn't buy it but read it at the library.
The 7th "dot" resorbed which is in fact very common but not often detected. If I am not mistaken there is a theory that lefties actually at inception may have had a mirror twin that resorbed.
h8k8..
I didn't read MB and wonder if you recall what happened that Kate screeched which prompted her to call a closer doctor. TIA
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I apologize, I had the drs. 'reversed'. I thought it was the 2nd dr. that was farther away. IIRC didn't she screech because she'd finally beaten Jon down and gotten him to agree to "try for just one more".
From MB: "I screeched, dove for the phone, and made an appointment with an infertility specialist right in Wyomissing, just minutes from our home. With my first pregnancy, I had driven an hour away to Allentown, Pennsylvania. Although I obviously had success with that doctor, I felt the convenience of seeing a respected doctor in our own town made much sense."
_____________________________________________
Is it me, or don't most married couples say WE when describing how THEY got pregnant?..just something that caught my eye
Hippie Chick said... K8SUCKS said...
Why WOULD Jon get a vasectomy ? I keep forgetting about that tidbit.
Why wouldn't he? He has 8 kids. Isn't that enough??
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I think the question was brought up, because supposedly, Jon got a vasectomy shorly after the tups were born. It sounds like you're thinking he recently got one because he's with Ellen. IF Kate was 'so sure' she had PCOS and couldn't possibly get preg., why would Jon have gotten a vasectomy after the tups birth, while they were still together?
I know this is off-topic, but as I sit and watch the Jets/Steelers game and see that it is 15 degrees in PA, I wonder how Shoka is doing. Is he stuck out in his doghouse in the miserable cold?
h8k8 said..."I didn't read MB and wonder if you recall what happened that Kate screeched which prompted her to call a closer doctor."
____________________________________________________
Reading between the lines said... "I apologize, I had the drs. 'reversed'. I thought it was the 2nd dr. that was farther away. IIRC didn't she screech because she'd finally beaten Jon down and gotten him to agree to "try for just one more".
****************************************************
You are exactly right, Reading between the lines. BTW, an excerpt from MB is on Oprah's website.
MB is a very good read and quite informative. Beth did a great job with that book.
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As much as I thought of Beth, I have to disagree on this. I refused to buy the book, and with cup of coffee in hand, I read it at a small local bookstore.
I thought in Beth's writings, she seemed to go a little overboard w/the adjectives. It was like it was her first book and she was trying too hard. If one is to believe the 'facts' in the book, it was informative. But how much can you really believe if it's coming out of Kate's mouth???
Reading between the lines said...
...IF Kate was 'so sure' she had PCOS and couldn't possibly get preg., why would Jon have gotten a vasectomy after the tups birth, while they were still together?
**********
If he did have the procedure my guess is that she could get pregnant on her own after all because her PCOS was't nearly as severe as she would have everyone believe (especially when factoring in it's many symptoms she doesn't seem to have).
At the risk of sounding like a one-trick pony, I'm wondering why the state of Kate's uterus or its use(s) in the Past is a more engrossing topic than the fact that the children are being abused daily in the Present.
It looks to me like red herrings are being put in the way of a discussion that might make some people feel uncomfortable or defensive.
"From MB: "I screeched, dove for the phone, and made an appointment with an infertility specialist right in Wyomissing, just minutes from our home. With my first pregnancy, I had driven an hour away to Allentown, Pennsylvania. Although I obviously had success with that doctor, I felt the convenience of seeing a respected doctor in our own town made much sense."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But she has to go all the way to New York City to find a good
hairdresser ?
Bickering over the way Kate conceived the children is pointless. Does it matter more than the fact that these children now exist and are being abused???
Ideas as to what we can do, other than whine?
Admin always stays above the pettiness. Can we focus on these children in the present, and not the past?
Hippie, yeah, maybe TMI =) Several others have noted what I would have written - Jon most certainly was ensuring that he had no more kids. Maybe because he had been duped with the tups? Maybe because K8 really could get pregnant without fertility treatments ? I dunno, it just seems to go along with the theory that K8 knew exactly what she was doing when she switched fertility docs and then proceeded to disregard THAT doc's orders to skip the cycle.
IDModo - I am sorry if you feel this thread has been hijacked. I do get very heated about this subject, mainly because it IS so misunderstood and it is one of K8's biggest lies. That it is documented in her book and her editors/Beth/TLC/whomever never questioned her "story" just proves my point.
I absolutely agree that the REAL problem lies with the exploitation of those poor babes but K8 never would have given birth to her little monemakers if she had not manipulated the fertility process. And I put sole blame on K8. I have no reason to suspect that her fertility doctors were anything but rightous, unlike the doc for Octomom.
Lorrie, thanks, your post was not yet posted when I wrote my post =)
I'm late to this party, but I have a theory to add regarding present-day events for the G8. Perhaps we never see the twins at the bus stop because they know the "pap" is fake and they don't want their pictures taken? Khate may even have told Chris or whomever NOT to get the twins in pictures. The tups create the "money shots" and they are too innocent to know any better. Khate has taught these kids to fear the paparazzi - otherwise we'd see the little ones smiling and waving at the photog. The twins are too old for silly games like this.
The twins were in the Australia "pap" photos because Khate/Steve/TLC was taking them for promoting the show, or selling them to gossip sites. But have the twins showed up lately in Radar or INF pics?
First- she said she had PCOS and yet she doesn't have any of the physical symptoms of someone with that problem.
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What are the symptoms of that problem?
Disgusted - it may be a subject in which you are not interested but that doesn't make it any less discussion - worthy or petty.
franky, you touched on something above that has always made me scratch my head. You said that most couples would say say WE when planning THEIR pregnancy. Very, very true. I was always amazed at how both Jon and Kate would say MY kids. They would literally be jammed together side-by-side on that little couch, telling some story and they would both always say "MY" kids, even though the other parent was right there. It was so weird to me! My parents said "OUR" kids or "THE" kids, they didn't claim us individually.
Aeris, I agree that Mady and Cara are probably VERY vocal about not wanting to fake another pic for their mother. Mady esp, has had K8's number for a very long time which is why, IMO, she acts out the most. Unfortunately, Cara seems to hold everything inside but you can see how sad her eyes are when/if she is pictured =(
I remember on one of the blogs, someone that Kate went to school with was talking about one of their high school reunions. This was after the twins, but before the tups, and she said that Kate told her she was trying for quadruplets next time. Does anyone else remember this?
I think it's appropriate to spend a little time talking about this because I think the general public should be aware of how completely calculated and devious this was. I agree this was one of Kate's biggest lies.
I think there's room for various discussions. I am not necessarily interested in all the discussions that go on - like for example the public and private school stuff - but I figure that some people are interested, so why not let them discuss it.
Anyone is free to discuss what they want as long as you follow the rules, I don't even mind if peope stray off topic a bit.
IDMO your point would be well taken if we didn't discuss child exploitation here nearly every single day. It is by no means a topic that has been neglected.
As Heidi pointed out so well, whether Kate orchestrated multiples is directly related to child exploitation. The question remains what motives did Kate have if any when these kids were conceived. She spins the story like TLC contacted her out of the blue and they just randomly agreed to be filmed. Other evidence suggests this is ridiculous, that in fact she actively and aggressively pursued every avenue she could to milk these children of every last cent. Did this aggresive pursuit of money-milking begin even before these kids were born? In fact were these kids born to give Kate fame and wealth? It's a scary question and one worthy of debate.
She did say in I Just Want You to Know she always wanted twins and even had twin dolls. I don't understand why anyone would wish for multiples knowing it puts them at much higher risk during the pregnancy and birth. It is very selfish I think for Kate to want HOM. It's one thing to take on that risk just to have one baby and if HOMs happen you make the best of it, but quite another to actively orchestrate it. She is very, very lucky these kids are as healthy as they are.
IDModo said... At the risk of sounding like a one-trick pony, I'm wondering why the state of Kate's uterus or its use(s) in the Past is a more engrossing topic than the fact that the children are being abused daily in the Present.
It looks to me like red herrings are being put in the way of a discussion that might make some people feel uncomfortable or defensive.
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I've found that some of the best casual debates and conversations I've had will often get side tracked by what seemingly was an 'innocent' comment, which took off and further led to more interesting discussions. We merely veered from the main topic for a moment. Perhaps you could try not to come off as sounding so condescending and 'above it all'. I'm sure Admin will let us know when we've crossed a line.
Roxanne said...
Oh dear sheeple Carol, don't be so happy so soon. With every insemination procedure, everything I said above applies :D
You're all(the sheeple) clinging to the fact that I got the method wrong but IUI has THE EXACT SAME EFFECT as IVF honey, it's just a different procedure,but the result is the same.
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Roxanne: Good rule of thumb to follow...in posting (as in life) put away the snide remarks and holier-than-thou attitude. When you do this, all credibility flies out the window. You'll never be taken seriously if you talk down to people. These are just a few words to the wise, especially if you continue along your chosen career path. No patient wants a physician with a superior attitude. I think we all wish you much success in your studies.
"I hope you can see how your credibility was damaged before you even began by not knowing the correct method Kate used for her supposed infertility problem and saying you knew more than us because of your education. As I said before, humility is a good trait to have."
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Bottom line, Roxanne, one doesn't want to be like the rooster who believes the sun rises just to hear him crow.
Trucker said,
"Joel is in desperate need of speech therapy. If some kids need to be pulled out of regular class, there are trained special ed teachers in public schools. Private schools do NOT have to follow any special needs curriculum such as a 504 or IEP plan. If your kids needs extras in private, it is only IF the school is willing to provide it."
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While some private schools don't have the services you mention, the kids' school does. It has support services, IU services (speech therapy), counselors, IU tutoring specialists, and so much more, all available to any student needing additional help. This is done in-house, so there's no need to pull the student out of the physical location in order to receive help. Professionals come to the student, before or after school, or during free periods.
It's really not a matter of IF the school is willing to provide it. The school DOES provide it; in fact, it is the school that suggests support services and the parent can accept what the school offers, or can look elsewhere for professional services. Whether the Gosselins have accepted these offers of additional help, I have no idea. Didn't Kate say that there supposedly a therapist coming to their house?
Public schools in the area likewise have the same services, and are excellent in going above and beyond the call of duty in assessing what additional help the student may need. We're lucky here in that we have great school systems, both public and private. The only issue I have with some of the public schools in the area is the size. I just talked to a young lady tonight who said that there were nearly seven hundred kids in one grade alone and that they were having a problem finding a place to hold a junior-senior prom!
SmileyGrl752 said...First- she said she had PCOS and yet she doesn't have any of the physical symptoms of someone with problem.
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I thought that somewhere she said that she always had a gut feeling that she would have infertility problems and therefore didn't wait too long before getting help. Am I imagining this?
BM is going to complain to E! about the show? I thought BM and Kate were tight, that Kate knows that BM runs the Number 1 Fan Club in the world, and BM is at Kate's beck and call, willing to show up in a minute's notice if Kate needs her help [sarcasm].
Why, then, isn't BM being interviewed for the show? Or is she?
I am a physician (not an ob-gyn) and learned about the major medical specialties in med school and can tell you that Kate's infertility treatments did not followvthe standard of care. The first rule of infertility treatment is to do nothing invasive for at least a year since 95% of couples trying to conceive will do so within that time frame, especially if they are young and healthy. If Kate really did have polycystic ovary syndrome (symptoms include obesity, infertility, acne, and hirsuitism, which means excessive hair, particularly facial hair), then she was not treated according to protocol. The first line of treatment is not IVF or IUI. Rather, it starts with medical treatmemt, as in medicines. The doctor will recommend that the patient lose weight, and may place the patient on birth control pills for a while to normalize the periods and hormonal levels. Other meds, such as diabetic pills, to regulate insulin levels, may be prescribed, also to try to regulate hormone levels. Only after medical management has failed would invasive procedures be considered. So Kate's entire infertility story is suspect IMO and her treatment was certainly not the standard of care. She was pregnant with the twins within one year of marrying Jon. So her doctor may not have waited the year he should have (unless they were trying to conceive before marrying) and he did not go through the usual noninvasive steps prior to proceeding with IUI. What was the rush? This was a young healthy newlywed couple. Also, Kate didn't look like the typical PCOS patient. I have serious doubts that she ever had PCOS or a fertility problem at all. The whole scenario is suspect to me and stinks of Kate's manipulating/lying to her doctor. Whatever the case, I have never heard of someone getting IUI/IVF so soon after trying to get pregnant. And yes, to answer an earlier poster, Kate did tell a classmate at a high school reunion that she was hoping for HOMs while trying to get pregnant the second time. It is all so sordid and crazy. And now there are eight children who are sentenced to live with this evil nutjob.
Admin, I wan't talking about exploitation, which I agree we discuss every day; I was talking about abuse, which encompasses exploitation as well as other harmful things that are done to children.I was aware that the tone of my comment might be seen as condescending,and I expected it might end up in the "snotty comments" category and not be posted.
I guess this comes of my frustration from trying to get people to make this very serious issue a priority for nearly 2 years now , and my inability to understand why it's not.It feels like I'm yelling down a well. This is not your fault, the fault of this blog, or the bloggers, and I'm sorry to have taken out my frustration on them in a snarky way.
SmileyGrl752 - PCOS is characterized by multiple cysts on the ovaries. ALL women with PCOS have irregular periods and irregular ovulation. Women with PCOS can also have acne, obesity and weight gain, increased body hair, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, insulin resistance or high insulin levels, oily skin, skin discoloration, and dandruff. Not all women have all the symptoms, and many can have ONLY the irregular periods and anovulatory cycles. Some of the other symptoms can be controlled or eliminated with treatment, diet and lifestyle changes. Infertility is a problem because of the lack of ovulation, but it doesn't preclude pregnancy without intervention. Some people think Kate really doesn't have PCOS because she apparently doesn't have many of the obvious symptoms. That's entirely possible; however, it is equally possible that she's one of the lucky ones who doesn't have the most visible symptoms. Either way, it seems likely that she manipulated Jon and her doctors into helping her conceive HOMs.
I think there's room for various discussions. I am not necessarily interested in all the discussions that go on - like for example the public and private school stuff - but I figure that some people are interested, so why not let them discuss it.
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Ditto for me Heide. There are lots of threads that get off-track. I either read/comment on them or I don't, no biggie. Usually, tho, I read them and learn something, which is always a good thing.
I think maybe she screeched (literally) and dove for the phone when Jon finally relented and said yes.
About MB, yes it was Beth's first and most likely only book. I wasn't speaking so much about the book in comparison with a more polished author as far as adjectives, etc., but I thought she wove a compelling story. Up until the TV part when the spin began and that is where I stopped; e.g. that they approached her, supposedly out of the blue, surprise, surpise. She has in her contract a sequel to MB, but I don't see how it can be called a sequel without Beth.
Coming out of lurkdom, hi! :-)
Someone upthread was asking about child abuse laws and definitions. Here is a link to Federal Law. http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/define.cfm
On that page there are links to the various state Statutes. Remember that Federal Law is the least restrictive (just bottom line protection) and individual states and territories can enact more restrictive laws. To really understand the differences among the states you need to read both the Statute and the "Regulations" which spell out the details of how the Statute is implemented and interpreted.
If so much legalese makes your eyes cross (LOL, it is hard reading) you can check out outreach materials in each state by a quick google of *Child Abuse Definitions in (insert state)*.
Also, someone also mentioned spanking. Some nations and individual states have banned all corporal punishment of children completely. Some allow "spanking" with an open hand, but not an object, some allow hitting a child with objects if as the child is not bruised, and so on.
When it comes to beating children, abusive parents can get quite inventive with the weapon used. A child died recently (in Arizona?) due to being beaten to a pulp with PVC plumbing tubing after reading a manual on child training by a fundamentalist Christian *guru* called Daniel Pearl. Being hit with that weapon hurts like h*ll but doesn't leave many marks.
Obviously, I do not approve of spanking AT ALL, but PA law currently allows it. That legislation desperately needs revision. I agree with IDModo. IMO, it is a disgrace.
Ooops! Correction.
In my long post above on the definitions of child abuse and PA law. I should have said: "After her adoptive parents read a manual on child training by Michael and Debi Pearl." Hope that sentence makes sense now!
Heide said...
I remember on one of the blogs, someone that Kate went to school with was talking about one of their high school reunions. This was after the twins, but before the tups, and she said that Kate told her she was trying for quadruplets next time. Does anyone else remember this?
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I remember seeing this, but not where. It seemed completely consistent with the woman Kate turned out to be, which is why I remembered it.
E-town Neighbor said...
Public schools in the area likewise have the same services, and are excellent in going above and beyond the call of duty in assessing what additional help the student may need
*****
The schools are not going "above and beyond the call of duty" in assessing students. They are required to do so by federal law.
Sadiemay said...
But she has to go all the way to New York City to find a good hairdresser ?
=++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh, but Ted's FREEEEEE, Sadie!
Thank you Jill P.! You have made it much easier for people to address the Child Abuse issue, by learning about what the standards really are. Bravo!
K8SUCKS said...
I think there's room for various discussions. I am not necessarily interested in all the discussions that go on - like for example the public and private school stuff - but I figure that some people are interested, so why not let them discuss it.
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Ditto for me Heide. There are lots of threads that get off-track. I either read/comment on them or I don't, no biggie. Usually, tho, I read them and learn something, which is always a good thing.
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Same here. If I have something to offer, then I chime in- otherwise I read and learn.
In spite of differing opinions pro-Katers, and anti-Katers have, were still human beings. It's nice to be able to have a civil conversation- sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But it is always a learning experience.
Reading Between the Lines said...
I think the question was brought up, because supposedly, Jon got a vasectomy shorly after the tups were born. It sounds like you're thinking he recently got one because he's with Ellen. IF Kate was 'so sure' she had PCOS and couldn't possibly get preg., why would Jon have gotten a vasectomy after the tups birth, while they were still together?
Nope, I was thinking he got one shortly after the tups were born too. It wouldn't surprise me in the least for a couple of reasons. One is the one I stated above. They have 8 healthy kids. Why more? & the other reasons I stated above about trying to co-parent with a monster. Second, Kate lied about her PCOS or (PDOS) sorry, I don't know what it is, Jon knew about it, & didn't want to chance ANOTHER pregnancy, especially with Kate.
IDModo said...
Admin, I wan't talking about exploitation, which I agree we discuss every day; I was talking about abuse, which encompasses exploitation as well as other harmful things that are done to children.
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It's hard enough in this country to prosecute people for beating their children to death with PVC pipe. There's no way you'd ever successfully prosecute any parent for emotional abuse, or merely hitting them with kitchen utensils. Prosecutors can't "prove" emotional abuse, even when it's laid out in many seasons of public video.
That's why the exploitation is the critical point. Laws protecting children (at least somewhat) from this kind of entertainment exploitation HAVE been successfully implemented elsewhere.
No one is going to get anywhere trying to prevent the kind of full-on abuse and destruction this "mother" is dedicated to. It just doesn't happen. She's legally entitled to destroy them emotionally any way she pleases. It's her right, and that's not going to change.
But it IS important that the details of that abuse are discussed, dissected and pointed out in a case like this so that no one believes it's acceptable.
And yes, the abuse of these children started with the use their mother made of her uterus, and that discussion is relevant, too. When these children grow up and engage in the struggles that will be their mother's legacy, they need to know how far back this started.
Most will believe, as abused children of all kinds do, that deep down, it's their own fault they've been treated terribly. Knowing that this was a PLAN, not an accident, not mere ignorance, not simple carelessness, will be critical to helping them gain maturity and mental health. If it's possible at all.
someone upthread said...
"Joel is in desperate need of speech therapy".
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
This is sad for Joel, I hope he *IS* seeing a SLP.
I was not aware of this detail about this child because I no long watch the show, and have not since before they moved into the mansion. In fact, except for the pics posted on this site, I wouldnt know these kids anymore if I tripped over them.
This was a deliberate decision on my part.
Really great post,"Abuse"!You are so right on all your points. I can't argue with any of them.
That's why I remain so adamant that the laws need to change. Here in Ontario Kate would be having supervised visits with her children for some of the abuse she perpetrates on them. Our laws are comprehensive and clear about what is abusive and what isn't. Much of what she does in front of the cameras is illegal in Ontario.
This is also the case in other states.I'm not just blowing a Canadian horn here.
"No one is going to get anywhere trying to prevent the kind of full-on abuse and destruction this "mother" is dedicated to. It just doesn't happen. She's legally entitled to destroy them emotionally any way she pleases. It's her right, and that's not going to change": That CAN and WILL change, if people band together to change the laws that allow it to happen.
A concerted effort on the part of many caring and concerned people has been responsible for a change in the PA Child Labour laws. Why not the Child Abuse Laws?
Be Done Now said...
I was not aware of this detail about this child because I no long watch the show, and have not since before they moved into the mansion. In fact, except for the pics posted on this site, I wouldnt know these kids anymore if I tripped over them.
Same here. I don't know who is who (whom?) or which child is which. Leah from Alexis? I have no clue. I have not watched this show since, wow, I didn't watch the stupid Hawaii vows, I think I watched them move into the mansion, Kate yell at Jon for the coupon thing, & then I shut it off. So, yeah, since then maybe? It's been along time. I only know what I read here. If Joel(?) is having speech problems, why hasn't Kate gotten him into a speech therapist yet? (maybe she has?) OR she thinks it's cute how baby-ish he speaks, & wants it kept like that.
It's no secret she likes to keep those kids looking young. The high chair thing, the bibs, sippy cups, prison trays, the way they talk (from what I hear, all baby-talk), not knowing their shapes, etc...This is a HUGE set up for failure when they get called on in the 1st grade & don't know the answer to a question. Bullying starts early. My friends son used to get made of when he didn't know an answer to a question in 2nd grade. Think of how the Gosselin's will get treated. They are who they are, after all. Kids don't care. They are ruthless. One misstep, & kids will be all over the G kids. And other kids can be jealous.
Reese Witherspoon I think it was, stated that she was picked on endlessly in junior high & HS because of who she was. The G kids, being treated like a pack, babied, having their little lives videotaped for the world to see, well, again kids can be cruel. I can see a big bully, a jock type posting little whoever Gosselin sitting on the potty all over his Facebook page or texting it to everyone & having the whole HS see it. Devastating. And who do we have to thank? Kate & Jon. (sorry about the rant)
Abuse said... .
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It's hard enough in this country to prosecute people for beating their children to death with PVC pipe. There's no way you'd ever successfully prosecute any parent for emotional abuse, or merely hitting them with kitchen utensils. Prosecutors can't "prove" emotional abuse, even when it's laid out in many seasons of public video.
I agree. However, the purpose of the Child Welfare Laws is not simply the successful prosecution of the abuser. Only the very worst cases where children have died or been terribly injured are actually prosecuted.
The primary purpose of Child Wefare legislation is to enable the amelioration, and hopefully the prevention of further abuse by successful Child Protective Services intervention. And before anyone jumps on me, PA uses a different term for CPS, I'm just using the term that most people recognise;-).
CPS has a variety of interventions that can be used. These include but are not limited to mandatory parenting classes for the abuser, witnessing in custody cases, and (as a last resort) removing the child from an unfit parent and terminating parental rights.
In CPS terminology, the social worker does not have to *prove* as in a Prove Court of Law any kind of abuse. However, they must be able to *substantiate* abuse, which is a lower threshold. How this is done is described in individual state "Regulations" as I mentioned above.
On emotional abuse: It is hard to substantiate but is not impossible. The assessment looks at the reaction of the victim not just at the behavior of the perpetrator. Indicators of emotional abuse include low self esteem, anxiety, depression and so on in the victim.
So, on the face of it, I'd say that Kate's behavior (ridiculing and insulting) is/was potentially emotional abusive to Jon and her children. I would need to assess all family members individually and thoroughly to make a determination as to whether any or all being emotionally abused.
As far as physical abuse goes: in PA hitting with an open hand as a spank (we saw photographs of Kate thwacking a tup with her hand)is legal.
I am a social worker. I have worked in Adult Protective Services and Domestic Violence Prevention but I have never worked in CPS.. CPS is the hardest job in the world, and people who can do that job have my admiration. They get criticism from all directions and it is often a thankless job.
::Waves at IDModo:: You are very welcome!
she is so effing evil (yes she is!) -
Thank you for your authoritative post. As someone who endured infertility treatments, my opinion has always been that K8's story is suspect and full of holes the size of PA. Everything you stated is EXACTLY what my doctors said to my husband and me and what I know from personal experience. (our situation was a bit different in that we already had one child and were, at that time, both in our mid 30's)
I am not as familiar with PCOS but read other's comments about it and they too mentioned that K8 did not seem to have the usual physical symptoms you described. I also was not aware of the normal protocol when treating PCOS and infertility.
I stated recently that I do not doubt that K8's doctors were morally and ethically sound but there is a pocket of doubt when it comes to K8's medical history and how it was presented. When my husband and I went for consultation, we both had to give complete medical histories and then both of us had mandatory physical exams and a plethora of tests. I am not sure if/how K8 got around this as I am assuming the doctor could verify whether K8 indeed suffered from PCOS . I am also assuming K8 didn't tell the second doc that she went through fertility treatments with the twins, but obviously don't know for sure.
Considering the recent questionable comments about this subject, I find your comments and attitude as a practicing physician very insightful and refreshing.
IDModo, trust me when I say that you are not the only one who is frustrated by the Gosselin children's plight. I fully support and applaud your and everyone else's efforts to get some protective legislation passed. Really.
K8SUCKS...
I'm sorry you had to go through all of that. I hope everything worked out for you & your husband.
I am hoping Kate's E! THS sheds some light on the why & how she brought the tups into the world. It is quite suspicious to say the least.
http://www.infdaily.com/2011/01/jon-gosselin-takes-daughter-to-the-pharmacy-will-be-featured-on-e-true-hollywood-story-pics.html#more-40313
According to Kate's fans Jon doesn't look good lately and some of them think it's because things aren't going well in his life. Drama. Queens.
I see is a chubby guy trying to stay warm in the freezing cold in those pictures. They see someone who is about to lose the next battle in family court who is currently fighting with his GF and is upset over the stories about him quitting his job. These chicks have very healthy imaginations.
I stated recently that I do not doubt that K8's doctors were morally and ethically sound but there is a pocket of doubt when it comes to K8's medical history and how it was presented. When my husband and I went for consultation, we both had to give complete medical histories and then both of us had mandatory physical exams and a plethora of tests. I am not sure if/how K8 got around this as I am assuming the doctor could verify whether K8 indeed suffered from PCOS . I am also assuming K8 didn't tell the second doc that she went through fertility treatments with the twins, but obviously don't know for sure.
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K8SUCKS, I think this is from your recent response. I think Khate had some great connections through her nursing job in the Labor/Delivery Unit. I'm a non-clinical employee at a large hospital and I will say that if you work at a hospital (medical staff, especially) and make friends with the right people, you can get what you want so much easier than the average person. Working in the birthing unit put her with the right people. She could have found out which doctor would be the most easygoing, how she could bypass standard procedures, etc. I'm not saying that she did, but she had a lot of resources at her fingertips.
Something interesting to note, our employee health insurance dropped fertility treatment coverage for 2011. It makes me wonder if it was being abused. Not sure cost was the main factor, because our premiums already rose about %15 for this year.
LindaFake said...
http://www.infdaily.com/2011/01/jon-gosselin-takes-daughter-to-the-pharmacy-will-be-featured-on-e-true-hollywood-story-pics.html#more-40313
I see is a chubby guy trying to stay warm in the freezing cold in those pictures. They see someone who is about to lose the next battle in family court who is currently fighting with his GF and is upset over the stories about him quitting his job. These chicks have very healthy imaginations.
********
The high was a COLD 23* yesterday and it was WINDY where they live. I agree with you, Jon looks like a guy who was cold - nothing more, nothing less. It was sweet to see him holding Cara's hand, something he does often and that Kate is rarely seen doing.
According to Kate's fans Jon doesn't look good lately and some of them think it's because things aren't going well in his life. Drama. Queens.
000000
Come on now, we have speculated similar things when we see Kate frowning/not smiling, etc., have we not?
This is so random, but does anyone remember that really old Bing Crosby song, "Swinging on a Star?" I made up a new verse in honor of the sheeple! The verses about pigs/mules/fish were great, but I think I'd rather be a pig or a mule than a sheep(le) myself.
"Would you like to swing on a star?
Carry moonbeams home in a jar?
And be better off than you are?
Or would you rather be a sheep?
A sheep is an animal who follows the flock
No matter what, she belives all the talk
No thoughts of her own, just a head full of fluff
Her whole goal in life is to have all the "cool" stuff
But if you don't like thinking deep, you might grow up to be a sheep!"
A Song For the Sheeple: You made me laugh out loud at my desk :)
Speculation: The difference is the sheeple believe they are the GOOD people. How they can call us “haterz” while they sit there and hate on everyone except Kate is not only hypocritical it’s beyond comprehension.
Hehe, thanks Laura D!:)
I actually think he should have used sheep for the third verse instead of fish anyway - kept 'em all farm animals. Fish are cool and while not geniuses, much smarter than stupid old sheep! I would love to be a fish, actually.
I agree that their behavior is extrememly hypocritical. Not to mention that the person they idolize is a "hater" of nearly everyone she meets(including the sheeple themselves, btw. Lol.) Really does boggle the mind...
Oh my goodness Song For the Sheeple - that was too funny!
Hippie, that's nice, thank you. It was a stressful time to say the least, but we all gotta do what we gotta do, right ? And yes, we were very lucky and had our miracle baby who is now a very active 6yo in kindergarten =) As for the THS, I am not quite so hopeful that any of this will be revealed. K8's docs are legally bound to patient confidentiality, so many others had to sign confidentiality agreements, etc.
Aeris , your theory is a good one and one that has been discussed. From my experiences (2 different states/centers because we moved) a fertility center is not part of a large hospital but rather its own entity with doctors/nurses/radiologists/etc who specialize in infertility, so her employment at the hospital would not have necessarily benefitted her. BUT.....maybe she was friendly (hard to believe, but hey, she does use people) with someone who knew someone, etc. As for insurance, thank goodness ours covered the costs in full. We didn't pay much out of pocket, and one round of IVF costs about $15,000. IUI isn't quite as expensive but all the meds for any treatment are exhorbitantly so.
And finally, yes, the sheeple are quite a group. They spew more vitriol than 99% of the "haterz". Why they can't find someone more idol-worthy to worship is baffling to say the least.
@Heide What you are remembering is accurate. ROL posted a story last year sometime about Kate telling a classmate at her 10th H.S. reunion that she was pregnant. Kate was quoted as saying "Maybe this time I'll have four!"
You have a good memory! I too never forgot that article. Kate absolutely orchestrated the HOM IMO!!
Speculation: The difference is the sheeple believe they are the GOOD people. How they can call us “haterz” while they sit there and hate on everyone except Kate is not only hypocritical it’s beyond comprehension.
~~~
If ya think about it, the sheeple really are a lot like Kate. They, like Kate, don't want to hear any 'put downs' or 'corrections' about Kate and just like Kate, they have to find someone to pin all her drama/problems on, and like Kate, it's Jon.
sassy
Speculation said...
According to Kate's fans Jon doesn't look good lately and some of them think it's because things aren't going well in his life. Drama. Queens.
000000
Come on now, we have speculated similar things when we see Kate frowning/not smiling, etc., have we not?
****
Yes, calling the "sheeple" drama queens is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black. Every time there is an unflattering picture of Kate, she is accused of being an alcoholic, being on drugs, etc., etc. People on both sides of the Gosselin saga need to stop psychoanalyzing every picture, every expression, every move these people make.
K8SUCKS said...
Why they can't find someone more idol-worthy to worship is baffling to say the least.
You have hit the nail on the head with this observation, K8SUCKS. The Sheeple literally worship a “false idol” as all of the qualities they admire about Kate are in fact FAKE, FALSE, and/or MANUFACTURED (by TLC to give Kate a market to corner):
Organized mom: MANUFACTURED
Organic shopper: MANUFACTURED
Cooks wholesome meals: MANUFACTURED
Doting mother: FAKE (and FALSE): She’ll do it for a photo-op, but those kids are just pawns to milk for more and more money.
Single mother: FALSE (when will they get it through their ignorant bleating heads that you CANNOT be considered a single parent if your ex is actively involved with the kids, physically, emotionally, and financially???). It’s called CO-PARENTING, you dumb-asses (or I guess in this case, DUMB-OVINES). Oh, and let’s not forget that they conveniently leave out of every discussion the fact that Jon pays tens of thousands of dollars a month in child support.
Working mother whose kids only play beside her: FALSE, FAKE and disgusting. How their wooly brains refuse to see the contradiction is purely mind-boggling.
A woman scorned: FALSE. If the rumors are true (and I truly do believe this version of the truth): Kate gave up on the marriage and allowed Jon to do what he wanted so long as he kept the “brand” going. He got caught by the media, and the house of cards collapsed….
A “contract honorer”: FALSE. She bailed on her marriage, and then FALSELY presented herself and Jon as committed forever (vow-renewal sham).
Can-do-Kate: MANUFACTURED and FALSE. The most obvious example here is that her cooking comes with a side dish of food-poisoning. But the reality is that Kate DOESN’T do sh*t – except for herself. She has a staff who take care of the kids, maintain the pool, care for the animals, clean the house, and do all the other little pittance chores that real moms do. This woman is SO unlike any real mom, again, the Sheeple’s heads are surely clogged with wool NOT to see that Kate does NOTHING but take care of herself (tanning, straw-maintenance – sorry, hair appointments, mani-pedi appointments, milking Target for freebies, etc.).
A best-selling author: FALSE. The only book that was a best-seller was Multiple Blessings, which we all know was written by Beth. The other two pieces of cow-dung, written by Kate, went straight to the bargain bin.
Deserving of her pampering time because she’s got 8 – count’em EIGHT kids: FALSE!!! Given that Kate does not lift a finger (okay she lifts one, and that’s the one that points to the person assigned with doing any mother-related job she should be doing) – Kate does NOT do what average moms do (working or otherwise). Most of us don’t have a handful of nannies, tutors, pool boys, landscapers, cleaning people, etc. etc. at our beck and call. So, with all of these worker-bees, just what is it that Kate does to deserve the pampering (financed by her kids)?
She has a job: FALSE. FAKE. MANUFACTURED. Kate is nothing – nada, niente, nichts – without the kids (esp. the tups). On her own she has exactly ZERO to offer the world. She can’t cook, she isn’t organized, she isn’t a super-mom, she doesn’t clean, she’s not a good wife, she can’t act, can’t dance, can’t interview … she really has NOTHING to offer. Without the gaggle of kids, Kate is UNINTERESTING. Her so-called “job” is exploiting her kids. Period.
The Sheeple truly are a frightening group in their blind worship. As you’ve said so succinctly, K8SUCKS: WHAT are these women so enamored with???? Every quality they admire in Kate is not a quality Kate actually possesses. It’s scary that people can be so gullible, ignorant, and blind to not see this.
bah bah dumb sheep, some of your comments had me literally LOLing!
K8's "false-ish-ness' is SO glaringly obvious to most of us, how the sheeple don't or won't see the same things is really quite a phenomenon.
The Sheeple truly are a frightening group in their blind worship. As you’ve said so succinctly, K8SUCKS: WHAT are these women so enamored with???? Every quality they admire in Kate is not a quality Kate actually possesses. It’s scary that people can be so gullible, ignorant, and blind to not see this.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't you think by this time that they know, and are deserting? Those few die-hard who stay do it simply because of stubborness? They have protested so long that to go to the other side would mean an end to their tirades, their crusades? It would mean admitting that they screwed up, and to some, they would be giving up the ghost. It's their livelihood (hating the haters) and what are they going to do with their time? Certainly not join ranks with their former arch enemies! They don't know HOW to argue from a logical position.
Speculation said...
According to Kate's fans Jon doesn't look good lately and some of them think it's because things aren't going well in his life. Drama. Queens.
000000
Come on now, we have speculated similar things when we see Kate frowning/not smiling, etc., have we not?
****
Yes, calling the "sheeple" drama queens is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black. Every time there is an unflattering picture of Kate, she is accused of being an alcoholic, being on drugs, etc., etc. People on both sides of the Gosselin saga need to stop psychoanalyzing every picture, every expression, every move these people make.
Hehe, thanks Laura D!:)
I actually think he should have used sheep for the third verse instead of fish anyway - kept 'em all farm animals. Fish are cool and while not geniuses, much smarter than stupid old sheep! I would love to be a fish, actually.
I agree that their behavior is extrememly hypocritical. Not to mention that the person they idolize is a "hater" of nearly everyone she meets(including the sheeple themselves, btw. Lol.) Really does boggle the mind...
K8SUCKS said...
I think there's room for various discussions. I am not necessarily interested in all the discussions that go on - like for example the public and private school stuff - but I figure that some people are interested, so why not let them discuss it.
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Ditto for me Heide. There are lots of threads that get off-track. I either read/comment on them or I don't, no biggie. Usually, tho, I read them and learn something, which is always a good thing.
************************************************
Same here. If I have something to offer, then I chime in- otherwise I read and learn.
In spite of differing opinions pro-Katers, and anti-Katers have, were still human beings. It's nice to be able to have a civil conversation- sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But it is always a learning experience.
E-town Neighbor said...
Public schools in the area likewise have the same services, and are excellent in going above and beyond the call of duty in assessing what additional help the student may need
*****
The schools are not going "above and beyond the call of duty" in assessing students. They are required to do so by federal law.
Heide said...
I remember on one of the blogs, someone that Kate went to school with was talking about one of their high school reunions. This was after the twins, but before the tups, and she said that Kate told her she was trying for quadruplets next time. Does anyone else remember this?
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I remember seeing this, but not where. It seemed completely consistent with the woman Kate turned out to be, which is why I remembered it.
I am a physician (not an ob-gyn) and learned about the major medical specialties in med school and can tell you that Kate's infertility treatments did not followvthe standard of care. The first rule of infertility treatment is to do nothing invasive for at least a year since 95% of couples trying to conceive will do so within that time frame, especially if they are young and healthy. If Kate really did have polycystic ovary syndrome (symptoms include obesity, infertility, acne, and hirsuitism, which means excessive hair, particularly facial hair), then she was not treated according to protocol. The first line of treatment is not IVF or IUI. Rather, it starts with medical treatmemt, as in medicines. The doctor will recommend that the patient lose weight, and may place the patient on birth control pills for a while to normalize the periods and hormonal levels. Other meds, such as diabetic pills, to regulate insulin levels, may be prescribed, also to try to regulate hormone levels. Only after medical management has failed would invasive procedures be considered. So Kate's entire infertility story is suspect IMO and her treatment was certainly not the standard of care. She was pregnant with the twins within one year of marrying Jon. So her doctor may not have waited the year he should have (unless they were trying to conceive before marrying) and he did not go through the usual noninvasive steps prior to proceeding with IUI. What was the rush? This was a young healthy newlywed couple. Also, Kate didn't look like the typical PCOS patient. I have serious doubts that she ever had PCOS or a fertility problem at all. The whole scenario is suspect to me and stinks of Kate's manipulating/lying to her doctor. Whatever the case, I have never heard of someone getting IUI/IVF so soon after trying to get pregnant. And yes, to answer an earlier poster, Kate did tell a classmate at a high school reunion that she was hoping for HOMs while trying to get pregnant the second time. It is all so sordid and crazy. And now there are eight children who are sentenced to live with this evil nutjob.
First- she said she had PCOS and yet she doesn't have any of the physical symptoms of someone with that problem.
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What are the symptoms of that problem?
Reading between the lines said...
...IF Kate was 'so sure' she had PCOS and couldn't possibly get preg., why would Jon have gotten a vasectomy after the tups birth, while they were still together?
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If he did have the procedure my guess is that she could get pregnant on her own after all because her PCOS was't nearly as severe as she would have everyone believe (especially when factoring in it's many symptoms she doesn't seem to have).
MB is a very good read and quite informative. Beth did a great job with that book.
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As much as I thought of Beth, I have to disagree on this. I refused to buy the book, and with cup of coffee in hand, I read it at a small local bookstore.
I thought in Beth's writings, she seemed to go a little overboard w/the adjectives. It was like it was her first book and she was trying too hard. If one is to believe the 'facts' in the book, it was informative. But how much can you really believe if it's coming out of Kate's mouth???
I know this is off-topic, but as I sit and watch the Jets/Steelers game and see that it is 15 degrees in PA, I wonder how Shoka is doing. Is he stuck out in his doghouse in the miserable cold?
Hippie Chick said... K8SUCKS said...
Why WOULD Jon get a vasectomy ? I keep forgetting about that tidbit.
Why wouldn't he? He has 8 kids. Isn't that enough??
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I think the question was brought up, because supposedly, Jon got a vasectomy shorly after the tups were born. It sounds like you're thinking he recently got one because he's with Ellen. IF Kate was 'so sure' she had PCOS and couldn't possibly get preg., why would Jon have gotten a vasectomy after the tups birth, while they were still together?
She based that on a "gut feeling" she had all of her life that she would have a hard time getting pregnant. That had been in the works for a long time back when she was a teenager planning her future. She knew they would take her word for it and she had enough knowledge to know what to say. I doubt any fertility doctors ever request records, etc. I think Nadya's only reasoning was that she had been celibate for quite a number of years.
If she was infertile why would Jon need a vasectomy?
MB is a very good read and quite informative. Beth did a great job with that book. The slant of it kind of changed near the end. I think that may have been when she had become a bit more savvy and decided to put on a little spin on it. I made it all the way up to when they got on TV so never read the ending. I wouldn't buy it but read it at the library.
The 7th "dot" resorbed which is in fact very common but not often detected. If I am not mistaken there is a theory that lefties actually at inception may have had a mirror twin that resorbed.
Why did a working nurse, with ties to a hospital and the medical community where she lived, choose a fertility specialist an hour away in the first place?
Nothing this woman says is believable, on any level.
Sorry, I know it's K8SUCKS -- typo!
Reading between the lines said..."Why, when according to her book, the 2nd dr, was much farther away from her home than the first...would she travel farther?"
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The opposite is actually the case. (BTW, I'm not a sheeple!) According to MB, "I screeched, dove for the phone, and made an appointment with an infertility specialist right in Wyomissing, just minutes from our home. With my first pregnancy, I had driven an hour away to Allentown, Pennsylvania. Although I obviously had success with that doctor, I felt the convenience of seeing a respected doctor in our own town made much sense."
Dulcina- Here's where I got it . It used to be readily available on the state Gov't. website but it's now very hard to find.
www.jlc.org/files/publications/childabuseandthelaw7th.pdf
Keep in mind the words "severe", "repeated", "Intentional", and other words and phrases that make it extremely difficult to prove.
This can be compared for instance with child abuse laws in my home province, Ontario; or with the laws in Massachusetts, or many other states.
Hippie Chick said... @Roxanne....
Thank you for explaining the whole IVF thing. I honestly didn't understand WHY the hell the doctor would allow such a thing to occur to a seemingly young & healthy couple JUST starting out. Isn't that, UM, illegal? Why hasn't the doctor been called out for this? And Kate, oh Kate, knowing full well what was going to happen chose to do the bonky-bonk with her over-stimulated ovaries, again, fully knowing she could produce a ton of kids.
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Based on my understanding of Kate's book MB, along with "reading between the lines", after producing a large amt. of eggs, the dr. not only cautioned her to skip that mo., he ordered her directly to the hospital, for the pain and possibly to keep them from getting preg. on their own. It is my belief that Kate went home that day to pack for the hospital and that is when she and Jon had sex. I would guess Jon was somewhat clueless as to how the whole process 'worked' and probably had no idea what was happening that day he got manipulated into having sex w/Kate.
I also find it very suspicious that she went to a different dr. for the tups than she did for the twins. Remember, the twins, in Kate's eyes were a 'fail' (IMO), cause she wanted the HOM's that go around. I think she got a little more devious the next go round. Why, when according to her book, the 2nd dr, was much farther away from her home than the first, plus the first dr. had clearly succeeded in 'giving' them twins, would she travel farther? Why would she switch drs.? I still wonder if Kate wanted perhaps a dr. out of her 'area' that she didn't work with at the hospital, that didn't know her that well. Perhaps afraid the drs. would talk among themselves once her plan worked to get the HOMs? Clearly, I don't know. I DO know that Kate is conniving, deceitful, manipulative and lies and wants her OWN way. I would put money on it that she did something deceitful and most definitely immoral to become preg. with the tups.
How stupid, thoughtless, calculating and irresponsible do you have to be to not think of the long term consequences of a plan of that proportion, knowing you barely could manage the two you had. She wanted the tups for one reason only, to satisfy her insatiable ego.
Hippie Chick, apparently Kate got pregnant using a different method, bound to result in multiples just like IVF.
Here's how I see things:
These procedures are for people who cannot have children.There are perfectly legal procedures and in many cases are bringing so much joy to people who really want a child(their own flash and blood, not adopted even though I still think Kate should have adopted a child,there are so many starving kids in this world-you know, instead of bringing 6 and screw up their lives.By no means am I saying the Gosselin 6 do not deserve to be alive, I am saying they deserved so much better). Problem is, some people like Nadya Suleman abuse these procedures. We know for sure that Nadya Suleman's doctor was irresponsible and has paid for it but we cannot say the Gosselins' doctor was the same.IMO
And I think you are referring to the McCaughey Septuplets..Yes, they said they didn't reduce because of their believes and guess what? 13 years later there are only a couple of short specials of these kids and they were raised almost in anonymity and have normal lives and their parents managed to "provide" for them without a reality show.And two of the kids have cerebral palsy...
Hippie Chick said (in reference to the Gosselin's doctor)
Why hasn't the doctor been called out for this?
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Probably because the DOCTOR did nothing wrong.
This is pretty strong evidence for what many people believe happened:
Kate hyper-stimulated and was told by the doctor, appropriately, to skip that cycle.
Then Kate went home and did the opposite because twins were not enough to catapult her into HOM celebrity status.
If this is what happened, the PATIENT is the unethical, immoral person here, not the doctor.
Hence, there's no point in going after the doctor.
Whatever the scenario, there's a preponderance of evidence that at least one of the people involved has a long, and well-documented history of incessant lies.
It's not much of a stretch to assume that this was just one more of a rather long list of fertility lies told by this woman. Not to mention the long list of ever other kind of lie she's told.
@Roxanne....
Thank you for explaining the whole IVF thing. I honestly didn't understand WHY the hell the doctor would allow such a thing to occur to a seemingly young & healthy couple JUST starting out. Isn't that, UM, illegal? Why hasn't the doctor been called out for this? And Kate, oh Kate, knowing full well what was going to happen chose to do the bonky-bonk with her over-stimulated ovaries, again, fully knowing she could produce a ton of kids.
She SOUGHT this. She was obsessed with having a bunch of kids because of the Mcaughe....oh damn, I don't know how to spell their names, but the other family there, the one that had sextuplets? And she carried that book of theirs like a bible. I hope THAT is in her trashy THS. And that doctor who did that procedure? Wherever he is, he is either kicking himself for the pain he has put upon those Gosselin children for being involved, or he feels like a fool because Kate tricked him. Or both. That doctor should be investigated. And so should Kate. Doesn't PSOD or whatever Kate insisted she had in the first place, continue though out life & is painful? IDK. Another lie from Kate. Eff her.
Lolly said...
IDModo I understand what you are saying, however, IF they are an expose' of what is REALLY happening, as opposed to the fluff that TLC puts out, I would think that would HELP the kids, not classified as getting on the gravy train? Many people are really ignorant of what really goes on.
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Lolly, you have put your finger (keyboard?) on the problem. It's not good that so many people - all of us included - are so invested in these children's lives. BUT, without all these eyes on what's happening to them, how would it ever change?
What if no one ever called Kate on the lies, the mistreatment of the children, the theft of their lives? Then not only would these children be thrown away, but the path would have been smoothed for the next family of adorable babies. And the next one. And the next one.
In that case, no laws would change, no parents would think twice before selling their families down the river.
There's been enough of an outcry in Pennsylvania that state rep. Murt is on this case. Without blogs like this one, that would never have happened.
It's a really unfortunate irony that only more publicity can result in the kind of outrage that might prevent future abuses.
But it's a whole lot better that there's a light shining on everything this woman does to hurt her children that it would be if she just had her way until they were 18.
Isn't it about time to look at and REVISE the child abuse laws? Should they vary by State?
IdModo has mentioned that the law in PA doesn't seem to protect children well enough. I think that is a good place to invest some energy. Kate is abusing those kids because the current law ALLOWS it.
IDModo I understand what you are saying, however, IF they are an expose' of what is REALLY happening, as opposed to the fluff that TLC puts out, I would think that would HELP the kids, not classified as getting on the gravy train? Many people are really ignorant of what really goes on.
The first half of my comment didn't go through. I said: Rather than go over the same old stuff about how they got here, the "realest reality" is that the kids ARE here, and being abused and exploited by their mother and TLC.; and now another book and a tv documentary are hopping on the financial gravy train.
IVF guidelines said
Her doctor technically/legally did nothing wrong - he violated no "regulations" since there are none. Right after the octuplets were born there was talk of the need for regulations, but I haven't heard of any being put in place.
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In 2009, Suleman's doctor was thrown out of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine for the ethical violations he committed in allowing Suleman to produce octuplets. (And a bunch of other violations, too. The guy had been trouble for a long time, which is why he was willing to "treat" Suleman in the first place.)
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-suleman-doctor,0,2951610.story
Hearings were being held in October 2010 to determine if the state of California should revoke his license to practice medicine. I don't know what the final result or those proceedings was.
I beg to differ..... said...
The corn maze was a working SET. Complete with film crew. This was not PRIVATE bonding time with Kate and her kids. Everything that was done there was meant to be captured on filmed and shown to the world on TV! I find it no different than finding out a movie/TV crew will be filming scenes nearby in your town and you want to go check it out.
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I completely agree. Not to mention that the Gosselin parents completely opened up their family to this kind of attention by putting their lives out in the public eye, and abusing their children so irrefutably that huge numbers of strangers care more about the children's welfare than the parents seem to.
It's not surprising if someone went to see for herself what filming looked like. The amazing (and fortunate) thing in this case is that the "someone" was so respectful of the children, and showed only identifiable adults in her verification shots.
"Stalking"? Well, sure, in the broad sense, and that's just one more reason these children deserve a private life. A responsible reporter today, a rabid fan tomorrow.
But it's all good, isn't it, Kate? Anything to keep the tan going and the spotlight shining. The kids' lives are only collateral damage. No biggie.
Kate did not do IVF. There were no eggs transferred.
Kate used Clomid and IntrauUterine Insemination (IUI - they inject semen into the uterus) with both pregnancies. When she went to get pregnant with the sextuplets, her ovaries became overstimulated - which is a dangerous condition for the mother.
If you still believe that Kate Gosselin used IVF to get pregnant, check her book "Multiple Blessings" and State of Pennsylvania Press releases from the time of the sextuplets birth as well as any other article about the birth of the Gosselin sextuplets. See an excerpt from Multiple Blessings on Oprah.com which details the Gosselins experience with fertility treatments under related links.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_eggs_did_Kate_Gosselin_transfer_in_her_IVF_treatment#ixzz1BsCCvaak
Roxanne, from all I have heard and read, they did not have IVF, they had IUI. That said, some of the same principles apply. An ultrasound would have shown how many follicles were likely to produce an egg that cycle, and if they were hyperstimulated, she should have been warned that high-order multiples were a possibility. She claims that her ultrasound that cycle was no different than the one where she conceived the twins. Now don't get me wrong, I am no Kate defender. Quite the opposite. But really, who knows what truly happened other than Kate, Jon and their physician?
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