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| The Gosselins collecting love offerings and selling photos at a church speaking engagement in PA, just 10 days before quietly signing an endorsement deal worth $60,000. |
It's always been pretty obvious that long after they became very wealthy, Jon and Kate continued to unethically portray a couple with their hands full just struggling to get by. Just how much money was taken from innocent church goers and other people under the mistaken impression they needed their money just to eat and pay the bills may never be known. Today however, former US Weekly reporter Robert Hoffman, who was assigned to the Gosselin beat for two years and has stated is a friend of Jon's, posted a revealing contract on his web site.
The contract with Lane furniture is dated September 23, 2008, and includes some of the following interesting information:
- The couple were paid $30,000 in cash and $30,000 in furniture, for a total of $60,000.
- Lane was responsible for all the taxes that Jon and Kate would owe as a result of this exchange
- Jon and Kate were to have final approval of the promotional video they were to shoot for Lane
A second contract dated November 14, 2008 provided for $20,000 payment in cash and $5,000 worth of Samsung electronics.
Around about this time, the Gosselins had several speaking engagements lined up, many at churches. (What appears to be a complete list can be found here.) One such example is Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Abington, located just down the road near Philadelphia. While they have removed any reference to the Gosselins from their web site, another Gosselin blog saved the information they posted:
September 14, 2008
Jon and Kate Plus 8 Registration
We are excited to be hosting the cast of "Jon and Kate Plus 8" on Sunday, September 14 at 10:00 am. Completing the requested information below will pre-register you for this event. We are asking only those within a 15 mile radius of the church to pre-register and attend, as there is limited seating available. Thank you for understanding. This event is free, but please come prepared to give in a love offering toward the Gosselin’s. Due to the increased response for this event, we have rented Keswick Theatre, a local production theatre around the corner from the church in Glenside, Pa. This will provide much more seating. Children will be included in the service, sitting with their parents. Don’t worry, the service will be a fast paced, multi-media experience that will keep your kids’ attention.
We look forward to meeting you soon!
In addition, a fan posted a lengthy account of her encounter with Jon and Kate in Abington, reposted on a fan blog, which includes in part this:
"We sat in the center of the theater, row G, so we were pretty close. I had a perfect view. We sang 2 worship songs. Then the pastor came out and talked about the church. We had to sit through a long video about the church. Then they had a raffle. The pastor then explained that there would be two offerings: one for the church to pay off their rent of the theater, and another for Jon and Kate.
Finally, he introduced Jon and Kate... I'm going to be honest, they looked miserable at first. Kind of like they didn't want to be there. They didn't really smile or make eye contact with the crowd. I think they were more annoyed at the fact that everyone was cheering and screaming and clapping and they just see themselves as a "normal" family. At least that is what it seemed like to me. The interview started and they lighted up I guess you could say. ...
Kate also does some kind of "online devotional" once a week. Since vrigg wanted to know more about their faith, I'll go into that a little bit more. Apparently there was this lady who had terminal ovarian cancer, who was Kate's age. Her last dying wish was to meet Kate and talk to her. (This was in March). So Jon and Kate went to visit her in the hospital, where Kate helped her accept God and death. She passed away shortly after that. The grandmother called Kate to tell her the woman's son was diagnosed with pediatric cancer, completely non related. He passed away this summer. Kate still keeps in touch with this family. I think this is why her charity of choice is pediatric cancer. They said it was things like these, bringing people closer to God, is what keeps them going. It was truly inspirational. I had no idea that the Gosselins were this spiritual. Jon mentioned prayer (praying TO God, not AT God) and having a relationship with Him.
....Following the interview, the pastor asked us to be gracious with our love offerings for Jon and Kate for their being here, and something about the kids' babysitter. There was NO mention of any such college funds! I repeat! NO MENTION OF ANY COLLEGE FUND. The pastor said the money goes directly to the Gosselins. They set up the table and chair for Jon and Kate to greet and sign autographs on the photos. The photos were $20 each (I think Luna said it was $10 for one kid, or $20 for the whole family) but here it was $20 for the same picture.
No, we did not purchase a picture, and no, we did not give a love offering. We did however, wait in line because I just wanted to see them up close (moreso Jon [[wink]] ). I made eye contact with Kate. Everyone was standing there gawking at them and snapping pictures as they were signing autographs. Then the security guards instructed them to not use their flash because it is distracting. We were allowed to take pictures though."
Before grifting from blue collar church folk or anyone, is there a moral and ethical obligation to disclose just how well off you are doing financially? We certainly think so.
1247 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 1001 – 1200 of 1247 Newer› Newest»N. Korea, I can't reveal my source I'm sorry. You are not required to believe any of this. Some do, others don't, that's their right. Conditioned to believe our leader is just insulting and you know it.
I have a crazy idea, maybe someone should ask Kate.
Oooooo I know who N. Korea is. It's too obvious of a reference to something. She's quite psycho.
First, I don't think the Gosselin children should be on TV. They should be allowed to enjoy what is left of their very short childhod. They have supported their parents long enough.
Second, when they were much younger audiences found them cute. They are no longer "cute". They are what they are, average eight and eleven year olds. The networks are not interested.
bm
So she doesn't need a nanny when she travels if she travels during Jon's 50% of the month. If she's traveling during her 50%, that's pretty bad, especially since it's not part of a job, but to lap up attention running or sitting at a booth or going on a vacay.
I'm still asking tho, source please? Or is it 2nd and 3rd hand info? Are you in communication with Jon Gosselin?
^^
Good point. Where is this information coming from anyway?
Why aren't we allowed to ask for sources?
Administration I didn't know you were my leader you didn't tell me that.-(lol)
fidosmommy said... 178
IF, and I do mean IF, Kate was beaten as a child, that is all the more reason to get those kids to Jon's as much as possible. That circle does not break very easily. I sincerely hope this info is not true, both for Kate's sake and the sake of her children - and her parents.
:::::::::::::::::
I agree with Admin that there is some kind of abuse or neglect in Kate's past--she has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old girl. Remember her little high-pitched sing-songy quiet little voice in their wedding video? I remember her saying that her parents had too many kids and couldn't provide the kind of attention and luxuries that she felt she deserved. I know...ironic, huh!
N. Korea said... 197
Now we've been conditioned that asking for a 'source' is silly. We MUST believe our dear leader.
I'm still asking tho, source please? Or is it 2nd and 3rd hand info? Are you in communication with Jon Gosselin?
****************
Try doing your own research, dude, if you want to know. The administrator is under no obligation to you or us.
Ali
Why aren't we allowed to ask for sources?
The day someone tells me to stop asking questions is the day I willl ask 100 MORE.
Pure speculation on my part, as I know nothing more than Kate was physically abused as a kid, but I imagine she might have been a difficult child. It could of been a case where she was beaten more than the others or the others weren't beaten at all. As for her allowing her parents in her life initially, this is not uncommon at all. This would further her resentment of her siblings. It's very common when you're a young adult and sorting things out in your childhood to initially allow people in your life who are toxic, and as you get older and mature and have children, to decide sometimes rather suddenly you don't want them in your life. I know it wasn't until I was almost 30 that I decided I no longer wanted a relationship with a particular relative. It took that long.
Amy2: I think she is already in NYC. Kate will try to make it look as if she is not. I was poking around at the Blogher12 site to actually get a feel for what this convention is about , and they are having semiars, on writing/blogging, what you need to have in your blogs etc. So CC is, paying for her and the other co-workers(it is a convention), to attend and go to workshops, seminars, network, for CC to network for more coupons to offer the public through their website. Get their name out there. It costs $798 for a weekend pass, this does not include airfare or hotel. But CC got in LV a some kind of check for $54 million, so having their what 20 people attend a big convention, the cost is nothing.
Janelle you are ALLOWED to ask for a source. When did anyone say you weren't ALLOWED to ask?
You can ask all you want, I've been asked not to reveal the source, so I can say I'm not revealing it all I want.
If that's not acceptable to you, that's fair enough, so don't believe the source then.
NKorea said...
Now we've been conditioned that asking for a 'source' is silly. We MUST believe our dear leader.
===========================
OUR dear leader? You sound like you are a regular contributor of this blog. Perhaps as as a s$$t stirrer?
Anger: Admin's source confirms that custody is split 50/50, thus Jon does not need to pay child support. Admin reported some time ago that her source confirms that he got additional custody.
Kate's attorney must be a jerk. She made a statement that implies that Kate is the world's greatest mom for relieving him of child support. But she stopped there, omitting the fact that if child support is 50/50, then he is not required to pay.
If you're not allowed to ask for a source, the how did your question get posted? Obviously, you are allowed to ask--how is this hard?
Dissent and questions allowed, but be prepared to not be satisfied with the answers you get.
You get what you get and you don't get upset.
I think one wooly person is answering herself wearing a few different masks.
Anger issues Kate said...But CC got in LV a some kind of check for $54 million, so having their what 20 people attend a big convention, the cost is nothing.
__________________________________________
Fifty four million?? Sorry, not being rude but do you have proof of that? That's a boatload of money.
Be prepared for a lot more bleating here and drive bys when the sheeple finally start to accept that Kate got tired of these kids and relented to 50/50 to Jon. See if Kate will try to deny it. From martyr this morning to douchebag this afternoon.
And what a jerk and liar that attorney is making it seem like, contrary to PA law, Kate relieved Jon of support out of the goodness of her little martyr heart. No you jerk-face, if it's 50-50 no one pays because it's 50-50. Kate couldn't make him pay if she tried.
The Twitter pattern sure does line up with the new custody arrangement. Jon gets the kids more, his tweets reduce. Kate gets the kids less, and she all of a sudden doesn't have "time" to tweet anymore. Poor thing. And yet still has some manic frenzied twitter parties now and again when she does have the kids, as is her pattern.
Be prepared for a lot more bleating here and drive bys when the sheeple finally start to accept that Kate got tired of these kids and relented to 50/50 to Jon. See if Kate will try to deny it. From martyr this morning to douchebag this afternoon.
And what a jerk and liar that attorney is making it seem like, contrary to PA law, Kate relieved Jon of support out of the goodness of her little martyr heart. No you jerk-face, if it's 50-50 no one pays because it's 50-50. Kate couldn't make him pay if she tried.
The Twitter pattern sure does line up with the new custody arrangement. Jon gets the kids more, his tweets reduce. Kate gets the kids less, and she all of a sudden doesn't have "time" to tweet anymore. Poor thing. And yet still has some manic frenzied twitter parties now and again when she does have the kids, as is her pattern.
Be prepared for a lot more bleating here and drive bys when the sheeple finally start to accept that Kate got tired of these kids and relented to 50/50 to Jon. See if Kate will try to deny it. From martyr this morning to douchebag this afternoon.
And what a jerk and liar that attorney is making it seem like, contrary to PA law, Kate relieved Jon of support out of the goodness of her little martyr heart. No you jerk-face, if it's 50-50 no one pays because it's 50-50. Kate couldn't make him pay if she tried.
The Twitter pattern sure does line up with the new custody arrangement. Jon gets the kids more, his tweets reduce. Kate gets the kids less, and she all of a sudden doesn't have "time" to tweet anymore. Poor thing. And yet still has some manic frenzied twitter parties now and again when she does have the kids, as is her pattern.
Twitter's not pulling up for me right now (I don't have an account - I read Twazzup). What are the sheeple saying about the 50/50 custody? Is Milo in hiding?
My two cents, for what it's worth....
I always thought the "eleven" bank accounts were 1 for each kid, one joint with jon, one for kart alone and one for the house/child support money. Made the most sense to me.
Also, Mandy, excellent idea on the pedophile payoff possibility!!!
If TLC got nervous and decided to shut up kart and jon, they might have thrown some large money at them... maybe they agreed to pay tuition for each of the kids through high school or something like that....
So, kart was beaten? Physically abused? Hmmm... interesting information. Explains a lot, actually.
It would mean she didn't have a good loving parent role model to emmulate, and add the fact that she absolutely didn't bond with her gaggle of babies, well that explains a lot!!!
Sad that she will be perpetuating the parently failure as we've seen on her shows. I wonder how the kids will fare as parents?
The impression, I get from Kate and from the little things she mentioned about her family: is that Kate was a difficult child. Her parents were not rich, most of our parents were not rich. Perhaps her parents were strict(religious) Kate was a rebel. Her brother always came to her defense. Perhaps being the 3rd daughter, when maybe parents were wanting a boy, Kate felt unloved. They say: 1st child is pride & joy, 2nd is the spare, 3rd is just there. Or if the 3rd is baby(last one born, that one is spoiled)Any middle child is ignored. I knew so many kids, growing up who came from 6 or more kids, and a lot of them were middle kids, and always felt left out or ignored. I'm a second child & baby. There is 8 year difference between my brother and myself(he's older), in a way it's like being an only child. My sister-in-law was a middle child and never was close to her mother, but close to her father. In my opinion: Kate was 3rd child, 3rd daughter, then a brother and another sister. So Kates 2 older sister were the oldest and probably did everything mom & dad told them to do(model children), Kates brother was the little prince, and baby sister was the spoiled baby. So where does that leave Kate, right in the middle. Perhaps her parents were disappointed she was not a boy. When a boy came along, Kate was ignored. Would kind of explain, why she treats her sons the way she does. Hannah is the 3rd child. Kate ID's with that child. My parents wanted 6 kids, my mother was lucky to get 2, and most of the time treated us equal. (like when I got to that age). The way Kate acts and treats her kids, is probably just the way Kate was treated as a child. Kate has a twisted view of raising children.
parenting, not parently..... apologies!
Permanent, 50 -- So, kart was beaten? Physically abused? Hmmm... interesting information. Explains a lot, actually.
***
Where did this come from and who confirmed it?
Not a shrink but if kate is stuck @ 13 wouldn't her abuse have been at that age? Not her whole childhood
Perhaps her parents were strict(religious)
***
Anger, Kate's father is a minister.
Coupon Cabin has tweeted about Kate being at Blogher12:
couponcabin
Heading to #BlogHer12? Come say hello to us at Booth 118. Kate Gosselin will be joining us on Friday
couponcabin
@CaitPlusAte ha! Are you at #blogher12? She'll be at our booth, 118, Friday 11am-1pm and 3pm-5pm. Come say hi!
It will be curious to see whether Kate mentions it, or whether she pretends to be home.
Fleecing,
check up higher in the thread.........
I'm a bit late to the limerick party, but here's my contribution:
There once was a woman named Kate
Who decided through life she would skate,
She made others pay
And never would say
All I have I owe to my eight.
Anger, I totally agree with your assessment. Your analysis of sibling dynamics could be spot on. She certainly may have suffered from third girl new baby boy prince syndrome. This is exactly what happened in my mom's family. She was the third girl, and the next child was a bouncing baby boy and little prince. She went through a lot of childhood issues with that kind of dynamic, even though her parents really made great efforts to combat it.
I can see her getting frustrated and fed up with her situation as a child, which would cause her to act out more and to have a heightened sense of all that she was NOT getting from her parents like trips. Resentment builds and builds, physical abuse to try to control her builds and builds, it could have been a very vicious cycle. I almost feel sorry for her.
I also believe that a third or fourth child of the same gender, then having a baby of the opposite gender, can make that third or fourth child feel like you really just wanted to have a boy/girl instead of them and wouldn't have bothered with the next kid if they weren't born "wrong".
Fleecing-19
You can also read Kate's twitter feed here:
https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/Kateplusmy8
The sheeple, of course, are saying that 50/50 custody can't be true and that Kate is still the sole provider.
Wait a minute, Kate was beaten as a child? Where did this come from becaue this is the first I've ever heard about it. Is is a fact or a supposition?
As I stated in previous threads, I was an abused child. However, that doesn't mean that it has to continue on. I do not want to reiterate all of the things that I did to change that cycle. I also don't want to have this brought up as an excuse to excuse behavior of bad parents.
Fleecing The Sheeple said... 23
Permanent, 50 -- So, kart was beaten? Physically abused? Hmmm... interesting information. Explains a lot, actually.
***
Where did this come from and who confirmed it?
It came from your heralded Administrator, so it is not subject to verification. Why this information, if true, is anybody's business is beyond my comprehension. And why anyone who claims not to hate a person would choose to reveal something so personal and painful also is beyond my comprehension.
I think we have all known for quite awhile that Kate had to have had the kind of childhood that gave her no bonding or parenting skills. She is what, the middle child of 5, born to a very young mother and a strict disciplinarian fathet - I imagine parts of her childhood were pretty crappy. It is telling that at the age her mother was already the mother of several chidren she moved in with a boyfriend's family, and probably finally got some real attention. And then Ms. Immaturity met young Mr. immaturity, nice kid, colege drop out, living at home with his mom. Honestly, if those two had just stopped with their adorable twin girls, I think they might have grown into mature adults with a sweet family.
I have no clue, nor do I care, about Kate's sibs and how they are raising their own families, but Kate clearly never had a maternal role model, and has no real emotional attachment to her younger children. TC exposed that, and we all knew something was off with the 4 hour naps, the late morning rising, coffee in bed, desparate and grifting pleas for state help. Jon may have been equally immature, but he does come with the bonding gene.
And now the many ring circus of epic proportions seems ready to implode. What a sad, sick situation.
I think the current thinking is that personality disorders like NPD have some organic component plus some pattern of issues growing up.
So just getting physical punishments, IMO, would not automatically make her the narcissistic asshole we see today.
Permanent -- thanks, but I still don't see where it was confirmed (too much Rumspringa). I see #163 where it says "allegedly," but no confirmation from anyone. Is there proof out there?
Tweet-le de tweet-le dumb: Here is a article not on CC website: October 20, 2011
www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/couponcabin.com-recieves-strategic-growth-investment-from-jmi-equity-132245393.html
$54 million to invest in growth of more couponing etc. maybe that's why the keep Kate.
I would like to co-sign everything OrangeCrush wrote.
Some people feel abuse shouldn't be disclosed, other people feel it's important this information is disclosed because it is nothing to be ashamed of and giving it a "none of our business" attitude just creates isolation and shame for abused children. Both are valid points. I don't hate anyone who wants to talk about abuse. I commend them for having the courage to put it out there. Maybe it will help Kate, who has obviously been resistant to therapy, to get some help.
LovemyGrandsons I certainly don't want to excuse her behavior due to a history of abuse, however it certainly does explain why she is how she is. And emphasizes why she needs help so badly.
For me, I've been saying for years I"m telling you she was abused. This comes as no big surprise or revelation. She has the classic signs from A to Z. Although I actually thought it was sex abuse.
What makes sense to me is that this middle child would drink up all the attention like a man in the dessert dying of thirst. This is the attention that she never got growing up. The thought of this well drying up must be terrifying to her.
I added "allegedly" in myself, for this blog's own protection. I think it's only fair, given that my source is not Kate's parents, and in all fairness, they have every right to respond should they choose to. For all we know, Kate made the whole thing up for sympathy. You can see why when it's Kate, I tend to air on the "allegedly" side.
Whoever said that we can expect an influx from the sheeple flock here was correct. Perhaps nobody bothered to muck out their pasture and they bleated their way over here. Dang.
Moderation time?
I am stunned that Kate gave Jon 1/2 custody of the kids. Jon does pay child support if his 8 kids are living with him 3 or 4 days a week or every other week. He is just not paying support to Kate but to the kids directly. And think of the cost of a babysitter when he is working or socializing? It sounds like he has two jobs too. The creating of the apps and the Sports Center. Sounds like the apps creating is done out of his home. How can he do that with 8 noisy kids.
This doesn't make sense: Jon is working full-time and plus another job, socializing, & dating when their mother is unemployed sitting at home doing nothing most of the time. I don't know if this arrangement is best for the kids. Put aside the child support issue and think about the kids going back and forth every week or every 1/2 week. Jon and Kate have totally different parenting styles. Yikes!
Remember Kate's tweet that it worked best for her family for her to be home one week and then gone another week. It must be true. Holy cow, "Kate The Mother of the Year" just gave away spending time with her kids half of the year. And she isn't working. I think this looks terrible for Kate. Like everyone has always stated, Kate doesn't like spending time with her children.
Hmmm, another of my two cents.....
If this were a private person I would agree that family history should be kept quiet. But this is kart we are talking about.
She has made herself a media joke. She puts herself out there for all to see. She said she didn't care what the camera captured, they could air whatever they wanted.
She has proven, in word, in lies, in actions that she wants to be revered and adored by the masses.
She want attention. She begs for it. Well, she's getting it.
That makes her fair game in my mind.
But to clarify a bit further... if she were a kind, loving mother, an honest and humble person who had ambitions and worked hard and honestly and ethically, it might be another thing.
Her lying, her greed, her grifting, her lack of mothering skills, ethics and morals raises all the ire she deserves.
Any discussion of how she came to be such a pitiable person is fair game in my mind. Actually, if it is true she had a hard childhood, it simply confirms what the world has thought all along. It's verification that we knew what we were talking about.
We all knew there was something off about her. And now this explanation makes sense.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 39
Some people feel abuse shouldn't be disclosed, other people feel it's important this information is disclosed because it is nothing to be ashamed of and giving it a "none of our business" attitude just creates isolation and shame for abused children. Both are valid points. I don't hate anyone who wants to talk about abuse. I commend them for having the courage to put it out there. Maybe it will help Kate, who has obviously been resistant to therapy, to get some help.
************
The victim should be the only person who makes that decision. What you did is unconscionable.
And you cannot say with a straight face that you revealed the information to try to help Kate. Come on, even your most loyal followers couldn't possibly buy that line.
I disagree with you anonymous, Permanent Name has some good points as well on this issue. Her entire schtick is parenting. I believe it to be bad parenting. Knowing her background is relevant. No one is giving out intimate details about incidents or who did it or when. We already figured out she was abused anyway. But I totally understand that there is not going to be agreement on this one. I hear you.
Did Kate say she was abused or did someone say it for her?
If she said it her self I'm sorry she lies so much I don't know if I can truly believe a word from her lips.
True or not, she could take a story of abuse and run with it - she'd probably get at least one more go-round on the morning talk shows and the View. Ugh!
On the note of helping Kate, anonymous, I have always wanted Kate to get help and have said it about 200 times here. I DO want her to get help but you can believe what you like. Actually it's not that I give a rat's ass if Kate gets help, but I think if she gets help, it will help those poor kids.
45, no one is going to take you seriously because you're making it sound as if admin skinned a puppy alive instead of just saying Kate was allegedly physically abused as a child. Geeeeeez.
Well, whoa, back up a bit... I didn't realize this information came from kart, even if it was told second hand and then on to Admin....
I still think all the clues fit, but if the story hinges on something kart told someone, I'd be pretty skeptical...
We know kart lies. She would lie about something like this for pity and attention or to get back at a parent how wouldn't bow to her wishes.
Oh well, I imagine we might never know the "real" truth if kart is the one spewing....
Still think she is a loon, a messed up chick who shouldn't be around her kids.
It does seem prudent to add the words 'allegedly' and 'reportedly' to the story.
Bottom line, she is one poor example of a mother and human being. And that's not allegedly - I offer her tv show, her twitter and website for evidence.
Psst...Psst...over hear source seekers...
There is info. Tonight. On docks. Look for small fat man and tall woman with hair that is dark. Is known as Boris and Natasha. Give to them password - "the jade monkey walks naked in the moonlight". Then to you they give envelope.
All you seek in envelope.
Is important - do not tell Moose and Squirrel.
Fearless Leader
Mrs. Malaprop, Kate running around crying on interview shows and using the abuse angle as a way to get the attention she craves instead of being upset about someone disclosing it reminds me of a bit of dialogue from the movie 9 to 5:
The women are trying to find some way to get dirt on their awful boss.
Woman 1: Why don't we put a hooker in his bed and take pictures?
Woman 2: Oh who'd care? He'd probably buy up the prints and send them out as Christmas cards.
The boss in that movie was a narcissist, too. Anything for attention!
Kate is a Witch said... 50
45, no one is going to take you seriously because you're making it sound as if admin skinned a puppy alive instead of just saying Kate was allegedly physically abused as a child. Geeeeeez.
************
I don't give a rat's ass if you take me seriously. I stand behind my words. Where do you draw the line? Would it be okay to reveal that she was raped? An incest victim?
Public figure or not, likable or not, we are talking about a human being here.
Admin, my issue is that this was never mentioned before. It's possible that people are just this self-centered and it has nothing to do with abuse.
My aunt(mom's younger sister), was very self centered. My aunt had numerous thought she was very attractive, which she was, and had numerous affairs. The final one she had she left her 3 young children in the middle of the night to be with her boyfriend. Needeless to say there was a divorce and she lost custody of the children. However, she was not abused, she tended to be the favored one. She just was very self centered which is how I see Kate.
I have a problem with pinning Kate's problems on child abuse. That is a very big assupmtion that shouldn't be used as an excuse for her poor behavior.
"It came from your heralded Administrator, so it is not subject to verification."
####
Admin *41* said "allegedly." You do know what that means, don't you?
Anonymous 54, I don't care.
Shouldn't you be busy calling people's employers? ;)
Down The Shore said... 56
Admin *41* said "allegedly." You do know what that means, don't you?
***************
Yes, I do. She also admitted that she used "allegedly" solely to cover her ass legally so you are splitting hairs.
(This is Remona)
chefsummer said... 47
''Did Kate say she was abused or did someone say it for her?
If she said it her self I'm sorry she lies so much I don't know if I can truly believe a word from her lips.''
~~~~~~
I'm sorry to say that I agree with you. Kate has told so many lies that who knows what (if anything) happened to her. After all, she seems to truly believe that she is a wonderful mother, so there is no telling what she has convinced herself went on in her childhood!!
Remona
so if Kate didn't trash Jon for not paying support and she told him that he didn't have to pay support and she has and is SOLE supporter of their kids then that would make most if you here...WRONG...wouldn't it? I think so.
Is important - do not tell Moose and Squirrel.
&&&&&&&&&&&
Don't tell me what? :)
so if Kate didn't trash Jon for not paying support and she told him that he didn't have to pay support and she has and is SOLE supporter of their kids then that would make most if you here...WRONG...wouldn't it? I think so.
&&&
Not sure what you are saying but no that would make it ILLEGAL under PA law. Did you read the cases I posted or were they too confusing?
Anonymous 45,
I am a loyal follower and I buy it 100%. I've never known admin to lie or be deliberately cruel or immoral in her reporting.
Admin's first concern, always, has been to help the kids have a private, real childhood without having to work to keep their mother on TV and in mani-pedis and paper fish in NY.
This entire blog has been directed at refuting kart's lies and theft of the kids money. When it became clear that the parents were exhibiting some fraudulant (in our opinion) behavior to rake in more dollars, admin exposed the lies and cover-ups.
I'm not blind, I'm not stupid, I'm a college educated person with 3 degrees and a shitload of common sense and life experiences. And I know admin and the posters here (with the exception of trolls, sheeple, shit-stirrers) all have the kids' best interest at heart.
So yes, I'm a loyal follower and I do believe Admin's posts.
Anyway, back to the fact that Kate gave Jon 50% custody! Guess she can't play the poor put-upon mother anymore, moaning about him "only taking them four days a month," huh?
She banked everything on the idea that she'd get more jobs on TV and to no sane person's surprise, she did not.
Imagine just hanging out in that big house for days at a time by yourself. Creepy.
Yeah I said allegedly because I don't believe Kate, not my source. What does that say about Kate? A lot.
Does any local know if there is any truth to her dad being ex-military?
Anonymous said... 54
Your posts are getting boring. Please go and play on the freeway!
Kate is a Witch said... 57
Anonymous 54, I don't care.
Shouldn't you be busy calling people's employers? ;)
*************
Hate to break it to you, but I have never called anyone's employer and never will. Nor do I support outing anyone on either side of the Gosselin aisle. I simply feel very strongly that revealing information along these lines is 100% wrong, regardless if the public figure happens to be someone I hate, like or don't give a crap about one way or the other. It's the principle of the matter.
Anonymous I GET your opinion. Guess what, it's a totally valid one too!
But you need to stop saying it over and over and over and derailing the train. You don't like what I did, I get it, I respect it, but I'm not going to change my mind. What I chose to disclose on the blog today was about 5% of the conversation had. I'm choosing not to reveal the other 95% for various reasons. I don't just spill every single thing I know without putting a lot of thought into it. So go away or give this up.
Anonymous said... 54
we are talking about a human being here.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Um, I'm having some trouble putting "human being" with kart........
Give me a minute, will you? Thanks...........
The kids are human beings too who deserve to be raised by a parent who doesn't have a boatload of issues she refuses to address in therapy and get better.
Flight - I almost fell off of my kitchen chair. Rocky and Bullwinkle. Classic. Thanks for the laugh among all of the snark and wandering sheep.
LovemyGrandsons said...55 "Ihave a problem with pinning Kate's problems on child abuse. That is a very big assupmtion that shouldn't be used as an excuse for her poor behavior."
Agreed. I also don't think it's appropriate to use presumptive evidence as a poison spear. We can hazard guesses about lots of things Kate-related, but about charges this serious, I think it's important to stick to facts.
We don't know with a certainty that Kate endured abuse as a child, and we don't know if she's gone through therapy or other types of assistance to heal whatever wounds may or may not have been inflicted on her by other parties. In my opinion, adding the word "allegedly" doesn't in any way blunt the harm that comes of this--for parties at both ends of that spear.
CS said... 66
Anonymous said... 54
Your posts are getting boring. Please go and play on the freeway!
*************
Here's a thought...don't read them. By the way, telling someone to go play on the freeway is unoriginal and dare I say boring!
And where the heck is that Bo Peep when you need her anyway?
Flight,
I LOVED Rocky and Bullwinkle!!! A blast from the past.
Spent many hours in front of the black and white TV watching them....
Nostalgia, it's a good thing.
Lovemygrandsons: You hit the nail on the head with your sister: she was the favored one. The kids that got all the attention, parent went out of their way to get this kid stuff. Of course, they grow up thinking (as my mother use to say)their shit stinks/they are important and you are not. A lot of my friends hated a sister or brother or 2, cause that kid/kids were the prince or princess of the family, sometime, just cause that girl had blond hair. This kid could do no wrong. This kid could get arrested, do stuff to make your hair turn gray, and in your parent or parents eyes, this kid is perfect. You do one little thing like come home 5 min late, and you think your murdered someone. I've never understood parents like that. I feel for any child who was ignored & abuse, cause you did nothing wrong and did not deserve that.
Anonymous: Kate put herself out there. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out, 8 years of how Kate acts, to figure out that something happened to her growing up to make her the way she is. Since she made herself a public figure, she is fair game.
Anonymous said... 54
Your posts are getting boring. Please go and play on the freeway!
___
Actually it's go play in traffic or go play in the road.
Here's the thing. If Kate were abused it explains a lot, though certainly doesn't excuse it. But if she's the type of person to make up abuse, it ALSO explains a lot, though doesn't excuse it. Either one explains a lot.
I just don't think it can be said enough that several of us had her pegged as a child of abuse for years here. Especially with the emotional stunting.
Another beloved cartoon figure is Scooby Doo! I still watch if I'm surfing through the channels when he's on. Scrappy and Zelda always make me laugh.........
Anonymous well personally I would draw the line at rape and incest. There's many things I know I've drawn the line on. But if I told them to you to prove my point that I draw a line, then I would be crossing the line. Take my word for it or not.
Well thank goodness Kate has four siblings to deny or clarify that she was "beaten" as a child. Personally I don't believe she was, perhaps spanked as she has done to her own kids. And spanking was very common over 30 years ago. I am not giving her any pass whatsoever.
And if she did meet Blankenship at Jen's wedding perhaps she truly doesn't remember him. I think it is common to be introduced to a host of people at a gathering and not catch their names or perhaps even chatting with them and not really know who you are chatting with. I am willing to give her a pass when she said she doesn't know him. It doesn't matter one way or another if she meet him briefly at the wedding or not. TLC failed in hiring him without vetting him thoroughly.
And I don't believe the kids received a huge payout because of the Blankenship fallout. If so, that money would be used to support the kids. If the windfall came through, Jon would not have been paying out child support the past few months. And he wouldn't be behind today in his payments.
And I think to get a payout of money, there has to have been proof that Blankenship caused harm to the Gosselin children or their reputation. I don't think any such proof exists. And why would Kate's attorney say that Kate was the full provider if the kids had won a payout? We are all just guessing but I don't believe the theory of a payout.
IF the allegations are true, then it might be the catalyst Kate needs to get therapy. Like Admin, I have always thought it would do her a world of good, even before I heard this new
rumor/fact.
How can Kate ride this? Why, take it on Dr. Phil's show, of course. TV time, famous person caring about her, free therapy, free trip to LA,
good eats, lots of pampering. All you have to do is go on TV and cry a lot and reveal as little as you want to reveal, just like any number of Dr. Phil's "guests".
Anger Issues, thanks for your support, but it was my mom's sister, not mine. However it's the same outcome. My aunt was favored, not abused, and only thought of herself, no one else: not even her kids.
Because of my experience, I just don't think Kate was an abused child. However, this is just my opinion.
Kate, by her own admission, has no relationship with her parents and, I think, most of her sibs. Something has to be very WRONG somewhere for that kind of disconnect. Maybe a rigid and over disciplined home explains her lack of warmth toward her own children. Sounds plausible to me.
Will we ever know the details? No. Should we know the blow by blow? No.
Yes, blogs are anonymous. I don't know you and you don't know me. None of us are "friends" with the administrator. However, she has proven over thousands and thousands of posts that she has the welfare of the children at the heart of this blog. She has never exaggerated or rallied us to some outrageous behavior.
Actually, she has calmed us to see reason several times.
We are here for the Gosselin kids, for some snark and humor and because we enjoy reading each other's words.
What else do we need?
Permanent Name,
The other day my son was watching some old Looney Tunes cartoons, and one of my favorites came on. It's the one where the illustrator is messing with Daffy Duck. The scenery keeps changing, he's given a funny voice, different outfits etc. At the end you see Bugs Bunny sitting there at the drawing table. I had to stop what I was doing to watch. :)
Sorry Moose Mania, must have "need to know". If not know, then must not have "need to know". Otherwise, have to kill you. Ponimayete?
Khorosho
Fearless Leader xoxo
Lots of comments and I'm skimming.
I was a Jon supporter for a LOOOONG time. I'll never be "Team Kate" with pom-poms, but I'm starting to see this farce we call the Gosselin Family differently.
Don't cringe (much) but I now think Kate is the better parent and maybe always was. My anger towards what I saw as her actions blinded me to Jon's far worse actions.
I may wake up in the morning with a different perspective, but right now I believe Jon is faaaar worse than Kate.
This sickens me. I've stood up for him, believed in him and excused and/or blamed Kate for him acting like a jack-ass.
OMG, pray for those eight kids.
There are no more boundaries. The invisible line in the sand has been crossed.
We're in libel and defamation now.
I'm out!
LIbel isn't, someone said something bad I don't like about my queen. Libel is something that is untrue. Not libel if it ain't untrue.
Laura the Loser, what did Jon do to cause that kind of reaction???
He has the kids 50% of the time, thus he pays no CS and she's not paying any CS. I'm not seeing your problem with Jon.
But I suspect I know what it is...
Lot of new names here tonight!
Lovemygrandsons: Sorry, your mom sister.
My opinion is: Kate did not suffer abuse but middle child syndrome, maybe Kate thought she was ignored or picked on. Maybe she did stuff to get in trouble. One of those obnoxious children. You can say no, and they will do as they please. Sound like a phrase Kate uses? no is never no. I believe it's called strong willed child. Kate does stuff for attention. Any attention. And she sees her kids as competition. She is one twisted person.
Maggie said... 43
I am stunned that Kate gave Jon 1/2 custody of the kids. Jon does pay child support if his 8 kids are living with him 3 or 4 days a week or every other week. He is just not paying support to Kate but to the kids directly. And think of the cost of a babysitter when he is working or socializing? It sounds like he has two jobs too. The creating of the apps and the Sports Center. Sounds like the apps creating is done out of his home. How can he do that with 8 noisy kids.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maggie, those kids are gone for 8+ hours 5 days a week at school. Thats more then enough time to get work done. You just have to know how to prioritize it. Jon could work on apps when the kids are in bed or on the weeks where they are with Kate.
If this is his schedule then I think it would be a good example for the kids to see. They can see how a parent actually works to support his children instead of the other way around.
(This is Remona)
Maggie said... 81
''Well thank goodness Kate has four siblings to deny or clarify that she was "beaten" as a child. Personally I don't believe she was, perhaps spanked as she has done to her own kids. And spanking was very common over 30 years ago. I am not giving her any pass whatsoever.''
~~~~~~
I agree with you. I think that she may have been spanked (like many kids during that time) but I doubt that she was ''beaten''.
~~~~~
LoveMyGrandsons said... 83
''........and only thought of herself, no one else: not even her kids''
I think that Kate has done the same thing, and we watched her do it for years and years!!
Remona
Well,
Hopefully this won't turn into another talk show circuit! We all know she can milk a dead rock and get blood....
I'd love to sign on here one day and find very few posts because the parents have slipped off into obscurity.
Good night all. <- that's my kart signoff LOL
I'm another insomnia sufferer, but it's only occasionally. Luckily for me, 50 of benadryl puts me to sleep. It's kicking in, yawning... I plan to program my dreams tonight to be all about decorating a new home.
Minimalist style, clean, lots of light, large windows...... will let you know if the dream program works. Sometimes it doesn't.
(This is Remona)
I don't understand why people keep saying that Kate ''gave 50% of custody to Jon.'' Wouldn't it be the courts that gave Jon the increased custody, and stated that he no longer had to pay Kate child support?
Remona
LIbel isn't, someone said something bad I don't like about my queen. Libel is something that is untrue. Not libel if it ain't untrue.
&&&&&&&&&&
What is the difference between a libel suit and a defamation of character suit? I thought that in a defamation suit, it doesn't have to be true, but can be any offensive statement made against another person which is conveyed either orally or in the written word.
I think Kate was "beaten" is coming out now because of the claims of the Gosselinbook soon to be released. My guess is Robert is going to have proof that Kate was very strict physically with her kids and he has some kind of ugly proof of it. She was so strict that it is going to stun everyone. And Kate is now throwing out that SHE was abused and beaten as a defense tactic of sorts. And of course, a sympathy ploy too. Of course, this is just a guess on my part. But Robert did say that he was writing this book to protect the kids and he has tried other avenues to no avail because Kate is just too insulated. We all know she hit them in the past because of photos of her child's behind getting spanked.
I do NOT believe that Jon has 50/50 custody. Admin you also said Jon is still employed. Don't believe that either. We shall see won't we?
Moose I think you're thinking of the tort publication of private facts. A good example of that is exposing that someone is HIV positive for no good reason. Just to be a jerk.
But, the big loophole with that is if the information is newsworthy or a matter of public concern, it's allowed. For someone who has made their entire image around being a parenting guru and been photographed hitting their own kids and filmed being vile to their own kids, I'm not worried that information about their own parenting background isn't relevant.
Other things I've been told about Kate do not seem particularly newsworthy and would be more malicious to spout off.
I am sorry but I don't buy Jon having 50/50 custody since the end of April. Kate has the kids alot and Jon has been seen out alot lately without the kids as well.
Maggie said... 97
I think Kate was "beaten" is coming out now because of the claims of the Gosselinbook soon to be released. My guess is Robert is going to have proof that Kate was very strict physically with her kids and he has some kind of ugly proof of it. She was so strict that it is going to stun everyone. And Kate is now throwing out that SHE was abused and beaten as a defense tactic of sorts.
**************
Huh? Kate did not suddenly claim to have been abused. The Administrator of this blog chose to reveal that information. How is that a sympathy ploy on Kate's part, unless you think the blog administrator is in cahoots with Kate?!?
I am sorry but I don't buy Jon having 50/50 custody since the end of April. Kate has the kids alot and Jon has been seen out alot lately without the kids as well.
&&&
Link please to Kate having the kids "a lot"? She hardly tweets anymore which is exactly her pattern when she doesn't have the kids. Conversely Jon hardly tweets anymore which is exactly his pattern when he DOES have the kids.
If it's 50-50, they both have the kids a lot. Why not just ask Kate?
Night Permanent Name,
You are lucky to only need 50 mg of benadryl when you have insomnia. Mine is triggered by anxiety. I was an abused child (mentally and physically. I need the big drugs like trazadone to knock me out each night. Not to mention other drugs during the day to make me functional.
I think what Maggie is saying is Kate is leaking to people she was beaten as a sympathy ploy when the book comes out. These people are then leaking it here.
Who knows, I have no idea.
(This is Remona)
Maggie said... 97
''My guess is Robert is going to have proof that Kate was very strict physically with her kids and he has some kind of ugly proof of it. She was so strict that it is going to stun everyone.''
~~~~~~
Oh! You may be right!! We have all seen the photos of Kate spanking one of the girls, so what went on behind closed doors may well be something much worse.
Remona
Jon still is self employed. Game stop is one of his gigs among others. I don't know how often he has to report there but it may not be that much. Maybe that's why he went self employed in the first place, to be able to be at home or be flexible around his custody schedule.
Jon also has friends and Liz who can help, and I also know he still talks to Jodi and Kevin as well who I'm sure can lend a hand. It's no harder than it is for Kate who is always taking off hither and yon.
Oh, before I go I am going to put a Kate doppelganger out in the pasture. Hopefully the lemmings will go love all over it and leave us alone.
(I hate to use the term sheeple. I love sheep and they produce great knitting fiber.)
I hear a lot of it can't be true say it ain't so, but are any of the sheep brave enough to ask Kate?
I thought "Anonymous" was not allowed to be used by people posting here. We have many posts tonight from "Anonymous." "Anonymous" is getting a LOT of air time and attention. I wonder why that is? Usually sh$t stirrers are not welcome here.
Is there perhaps an agenda to having "Anonymous" post her and engaging with her/him?
Elisabeth I haven't really bothered to delete anonymous in ages.
What "agenda"? Do tell!
This anonymous has been rather respectful so I let them play. Besides it's good to have a few dissenting voices if they can not be a jerk about it.
so if Kate didn't trash Jon for not paying support and she told him that he didn't have to pay support and she has and is SOLE supporter of their kids then that would make most if you here...WRONG...wouldn't it? I think so.
+++++++++++++++++
I'm really behind in my posts, and my benedryl is kicking in also, but under PA law, Kate cannot tell him that he doesn't have to pay support. It doesn't work that way. She can't do this on her own out of the goodness of her heart. It goes through the courts and if he now has 50/50 custody, then under PA law he is not required to pay CS. I believe that there are a few states in which the mother can relieve the father of child support, but PA isn't one of them.
The fans refuse to believe this, but it will come to them...in time.
Not a tweet from Kate all day. See, she probably dumped the kids on Jon and took off for NY.
Also her "thanks for your support" sad crap sounds just like someone who has been cut down to size in family law court.
Berks thanks for adding another voice to the cold hard facts.
Kate lives in a state in which the beautiful scenario they imagine of Kate falling on her sword as the music sways so that Jon need not pay a cent more, simply isn't allowed by law in PA. He can get out of his support if he has the kids more, or if they work out some arrangement where the kids are supported some other way, and that's IT.
Why they refuse to believe this I don't know since I provided even some case law about it this morning.
If it is 50/50 why did he not say that in his interview with his newest girl? And why would he now say he can't pay support if he does not have to pay it?
I'm really behind in my posts, and my benedryl is kicking in also, but under PA law, Kate cannot tell him that he doesn't have to pay support. It doesn't work that way. She can't do this on her own out of the goodness of her heart. It goes through the courts and if he now has 50/50 custody, then under PA law he is not required to pay CS. I believe that there are a few states in which the mother can relieve the father of child support, but PA isn't one of them.
___________________________________
Well I know for a fact that my sons ex went to court with him when he was behind on support and told them to drop the whole thing and his support was dropped, even the arrears. This is from PA.
Thanks for supporting and believing in her?
Again, I have to ask...what is it exactly people are supposed to support about her or believe about her?
I mean to me, all I see is a person who lived on the high who won't except reality of being a normal person. So what if you have 8 kids. It shouldn't make you famous.
She's without a job, hasn't shown any real talent or interest aside from her hobby of running since the show ended. I mean enough already with the *sniff, sniff, you really like me crap.
Kate you need to pick yourself up and move on from your dwindling fan base. Why you want your hand held I have no idea but the world wasn't designed like that. Yes, we know you seem to suffer from self-educed pity.
If you're looking for something to do this summer, or what's left of it anyway. Take your kids sans attention, crew whatever to a women's shelter that's local and spend a day talking to people. You think you have this hard, hard life to live when you haven't got a clue of how much worse off you could have it.
All your bad issues and whining are things you created and things you probably could fix.
There are things in my life I wish I hadn't endured or seen but you know what nobody held my hand. You'll never see me begging or a reality show because life is hard. Life is...what you put into it. Sometimes unexpected, good things happen and you remember that someone else always has worse things to deal with than you.
You seriously still expect people to support the Pity Me Foundation? Well I guess there is always a sucker or two out there.
Why would both Kate and Jon say he only has the kids 4 days a months in interviews over the last few months if it wasn't true. If it was true why didn't Jon mention it in his poor me interview? I don't buy it at all.
Just wondering, are you sure of the facts of that? Are you sure your son wasn't telling you that just so you wouldn't worry? It would have to be in the best interest of the children. I'm guessing maybe the amount of support were very little and that the court was fully assured the children would be fully provided for otherwise.
What you can't do is make an agreement to do that without court approval or agree to drop it without the court making sure the children are provided for. Since Kate has said a million times she can't support the kids without Jon's support money, and given their obscene expenses, there's no way a court would find it's in their best interest to have no support.
It's a moot point anyway since the reason the support was dropped was because of 50-50 custody, not Kate doing it. I'm sure Kate would be all over that anyway shouting from the rooftops what a martyr she is for offering her pardon.
@MiloandJack
@grisel1018 @Truth_Teller201 @Kateplusmy8 Well said...yep....we R here 4long term friendship & support for her!
Look out, Kate. You're in it for the long haul with this one. She's your best friend for life. Hide everyone and everything, animals and humans!
Just wondering another question, how often was your son seeing the kids? A lot?
Okay, so if Jon and Kate now split custody 50/50, why the hell is she so exhaustedish all the time? Also she would have a lot more time to get a run in and she always seems to be trying to find time to do that. As the saying goes, her left hand does not know what her right hand is doing. Or the left side of her brain does not know what the right side is doing.
If it is 50/50 why did he not say that in his interview with his newest girl? And why would he now say he can't pay support if he does not have to pay it?
And yes, I was there, his ex called the judge and the lawyer a c**t not very nice, but got her way. They threw it all out.
Just Wondering he still owes arrears, which are on the web site.
As far as not saying anything in the interview about custody, maybe he figured that was between him and the kids. Maybe it doesn't matter to him what Kate wants people to think.
Admin said....113
Why they refuse to believe this I don't know since I provided even some case law about it this morning.
@@@@
That's one of the things I enjoy about this blog. I'm not one to say, "link, please," but I do like being able to review/evaluate the facts for myself. So for all the time that it takes you to provide this background information for us...thank you, Admin!
One kid, every other weekend. He is a truck driver so not home that often, calls alot tho.
What you can't do is make an agreement to do that without court approval or agree to drop it without the court making sure the children are provided for
+++++++
Exactly. That is what I tried to convey in my post. You can decide you don't want support, but you just can't say to the other person, "forget everything. You don't need to pay." It has to be sanctioned by the court and go through the court system in order for the other person to be relieved of child support. Otherwise, if it's not done through the court, the person will keep showing up in arrears and domestic relations will go after them.
Improbable dreams no problem. Here's a re-run of the case law, it's pretty clear that you can't bargain away support if it is not in the children's best interest. In a scenario where this happened without 50-50 custody, then I guess that means POOR Kate has more money than Davey Crockett all along if she doesn't even need child support anymore for a judge to agree. Busted either way:
“Parties to a divorce action may bargain between themselves and structure their agreement as best serves their interests, . . . They have no power, however, to bargain away the rights of their children, . . . Their right to bargain for themselves is their own business. They cannot in that process set a standard that will leave their children short. Their bargain may be eminently fair, give all that the children might require and be enforceable because it is fair. When it gives less than required or less than can be given to provide for the best interest of the children, it falls under the jurisdiction of the court’s wide and necessary powers to provide for that best interest. . . . [The parties bargain] is at best advisory to the court and swings on the tides of the necessity that the children be provided.” Kraisiner v. Kraisiner 928 A.2d 333 (Pa.Super. 2007) (citing Knorr v. Knor, 527 Pa. 83 (1901)).
Why now with the "I can't pay my child support" if there is none....oh well, it will play out how it does, i'm tired.
We have seen this pattern time after time, after time, after time.
Something bad comes out about Kate, or is going to come out, and lo and behold here we are with a bad story about Jon to completely deflect the bad Kate story. Disgusting, Kate.
" It has to be sanctioned by the court and go through the court system in order for the other person to be relieved of child support. Otherwise, if it's not done through the court, the person will keep showing up in arrears and domestic relations will go after them.
&&&
And, the court also has to make a finding that the children's rights are protected and they are fully supported.
How can a court do that unless Kate has a ton of money stashed away. Sheeple, THINK. She cries poor, but is then able to get a court of law to agree to waive large amounts of child support forever. How does that make sense? Newsflash, it doesn't.
The 50-50 scenario makes sense.
Admin said: Since Kate has said a million times she can't support the kids without Jon's support money,
******
Is that the same support money she said barely paid for their peanut butter, celery sticks and crunchy things for lunch? (snark)
So just because you read a case law makes it so admin? If it was true Jon would be shouting it from the roof tops in every interview he could get. I call B.S.
That's OK B.S. you can believe Kate still has the kids that's your right. Jon doesn't shout custody matters from the rooftops, never has. You're confusing him with Kate.
So just because you read a case law makes it so admin?
&&&
Um well....yeah....not cause I read it, because it's so. As long as case law hasn't been distinguished or overturned, it's the law and has to be followed. That one happens to explain the law in PA really well. Please do post some law that says otherwise!
Remember over Fourth of July week when it was pretty obvious Kate didn't have the kids? I think that was when she did her pity tweet about how it was the first Fourth without them.
Look at this last interview from him. Back in April, he said he was caught up in child support and all his other bills. Turns out at the end of April he didn't have to pay anymore support but now he might go to jail for being in arrears. He is so full of crap it is pathetic. I don't care what you think of Kate but I seriously think it is B.S. that he has 50/50 custody. He can't afford it you know.
And, the court also has to make a finding that the children's rights are protected and they are fully supported.
++++++++++++++++
Yes, thanks for adding that. I wanted to include it and just...well, forgot. Time for bed. Where's the Lights Out Man tonight? Did Milo kidnap him?
There once was a woman named Kate
Who thinks her new bra is just great.
She's now double D,
Maybe even an E.
My god, how those things did inflate.
B.S., I don't really remember the interview from April. That was 3 months ago. Is it possible that the info from that interview was accurate. They could have gone to court since and all the conditions could have changed.
Possible?
"There are none so blind as those who will not see". I don't think Kate's fans want to see the truth. Child support aside, how can they believe Kate is hard pressed for money when she, herself flaunts on Twitter how she chooses to spend money on herself. They believe what she says, don't they? How about they figure out how much all her self-pampering is costing and then ask themselves if someone who is struggling financially would spend their money in this way? Do they have the funds to spend those amounts of money on themselves? Use your critical thinking skills people.
OK
http://northpennlegal.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/8_ChildSupport.pdf
Note this
Do I have to file for child support?
The primary custodian of a child is not required to file for child support unless they receive cash
assistance from the state. If so, then the Pa. Department of Public Welfare will require them to
file for support against the legally responsible party. However, if you are a victim of domestic
violence, and filing for support would jeopardize your safety, OR if you do not know who the
father of your child is, and cannot name a person who is likely to be the father, you will not be
required to file for support
Clearly states you don't have to file for child support.
We don't even know if Jon even said that to Star or if he did whether it's even accurately quoted. We're assuming both that that interview and the other one, I think that's the People one, are accurate. Sadly, that's quite a big assumption Not to mention a lot can change with child support in four whole months!
B.S. what you posted is accurate, no one said you HAVE to ask for child support, only that once you have it, you can't bargain it away. You're comparing a situation in which child support was never ordered, such as you just have a baby daddy, with a divorce where it was ordered. I'll explain in a separate post.
There once was a woman named Kate
Who wants money for finding a date.
Problem is she's a bitch,
Even though she's quite rich,
And she'd cut up his balls on a plate.
B.S., if Kate simply left Jon and chose not to file for support, that would be her right to do so and perfectly legal.
The problem is they have a divorce decree that rewards support and in order to CHANGE support you must have a judge approve it. You cannot bargain it away. Then, the judge must find it's in the children's best interest to change the support order. The problem here is they have an open, ongoing family law case they are no longer at liberty to change without judge approval. That ship has sailed.
So what you posted is absolutely right, and does not conflict with what I posted.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see". I don't think Kate's fans want to see the truth. Child support aside, how can they believe Kate is hard pressed for money
&&&
So much of what they believe is so darn illogical. But that has to be one of the most egregious. How can they not see that Kate is living like a rock star while claiming to cut coupons and scrape by? Why isn't this just the biggest darn turnoff in the world?
This is at the end of the article.
Can the child support order be changed?
Either party can file papers to modify child support. Child support may be modified when there
has been a material and substantial change in circumstances.
The party filing, whether it is the Plaintiff or Defendant, must show a change in circumstances
to justify an increase or decrease in the support amount. All of the same considerations and
procedures apply as in the initial request for child support.
If you disagree with the order concerning your modification petition, the same rules apply with
regard to filing exceptions
B.S., also absolutely correct. No one said neither Kate or Jon can't file to change child support if there is a CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCES.
Guess what that change would be? You guessed it, more custodial time.
What cannot be done is, without a change in circumstances, agreeing to just "pardon" a parent because you are a martyr and feel bad for them, without a judge first finding that it's in their best interest--i.e. they are being supported somehow.
Child support is very complicated and state specific. Everything you posted is accurate.
Flight of the Kiwi:
#86 - LOL!
I must say, you & your hubby are well matched. :D
Can't resist adding my two and a half cents to the "Kart was child abused" story:
Personally, my brain doesn't go into a coma after nature/nurture theory; it is not the end all and be all of explanations (EXCUSES) for lousy parenting and personality "disorders/syndromes."
Allegedly, Kart was abused and didn't get any nurturing as a child (as always with Kart, it's black or white, all or nothing, good or bad...).
However, there's another component that even a 13 year old arrested development teeny bopper does possess -
CHOICE, or FREE WILL if you'd rather.
Little children, her children, most of the time don't have a choice. But Kart does and that's why, to me, her actions and inaction toward her children is SO UNFORGIVABLE.
Anyone over the age of 16 - 18 has choices that are under their control until they breathe their last breath.
Maybe Kart was denied the nurturing and maybe even her nature made her "a difficult child."
Doesn't matter what she didn't receive because choice or free will CANCELS all the crummy stuff OUT! Boo Hoo, Kart.
B.S. -- here is another possibility. We know that Kate travels a lot. Really, a lot for a mom with 8 kids. Child care would be very expensive for days and nights. Maybe the money she spends for a nanny or sitter is more than what Jon would be paying. She might think that giving Jon more custody days would reduce her care taker expenses.
If the custody split is 50/50, he would not owe her child support any more than she would owe him child support.
I don't live in PA and I never paid or received child support money so I am not an expert.
Dmasy said... 150
B.S. -- here is another possibility. We know that Kate travels a lot. Really, a lot for a mom with 8 kids. Child care would be very expensive for days and nights. Maybe the money she spends for a nanny or sitter is more than what Jon would be paying. She might think that giving Jon more custody days would reduce her care taker expenses.
If the custody split is 50/50, he would not owe her child support any more than she would owe him child support.
*******
If this is her reasoning, I am appalled. It reduces the children to pawns in her financial game. "How else can I make my 8 kids not cost me so much? Hmmmm...get them with their father more! I can still claim to be a very involved mother but it won't cost me much. I'll make sure they need new socks while they're at his house. And I'll tell them to fill up while there, because my kitchen is closed."
I can only hope that this change was truly in the best interest of her children and not herself. Dare I hope that?
OK let me ask you this. If Jon hasn't been required to pay child support since April 27 why are have they both stated in some interview or another since then that he gets the kids 4 days a week? Are they both lying?
Jon, you were so nice to say I was a good mother in that article. I'm feeling generousish today and have decided that you don't have to pay that pesky child support anymore. It doesn't matter what the divorce decree says or that you are entered into the state of PA child support system as paying $xxx each month for child support. Just don't make me angry or I will take back my generous offer and you will owe back support.
Yep, that's just how it happened. No pesky amendment to the child support or anything legally filed stating a change in child support. Surely, it wouldn't cause a problem for PA's Domestic Relations Section. They would know exactly what to enter into their system without any legal documentation. They'll just make a note on the page to call Kate if they have any questions.
BS, I'm not understanding your question, I guess. If the kids spent (for example) Friday after school, Saturday, Sunday, Monday with Jon, and then spent Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday before school with Kate, that takes care of 7 days, with Friday (for example) being split.
All speculation. No one really knows what is going on in their heads and life. If you don't know them personally how do you really now?
B.S. said... 152
Do you mean week or month? Four days a week would be approximately half of the week (7 days can't be equally divided by two unless each had the children 3 1/2 days). So four days a week would be approximately 50/50.
Four days a month - they could both be telling the truth. He does and he also has them eleven other days that are not mentioned.
Confusing, isn't it?
B.S., Jon has not said he gets the kids four days a month that i recall. I know Kate says that but he hasn't. In fact i just reread the People article from June, and not only does he never say he only gets them two weekends a month, and they seem to allude to the fact that he is getting more (I'm surprised I didn't pick up on this before):
"With a new career, new girlfriend and a CUSTODY ARRANGEMENT THAT GIVES HIM PLENTY OF TIME with his eight kids...."
Sounds to me like they're saying it without actually saying it, perhaps per his request. I don't think two weeks a month is something that can be classified by even the most idiotic of journalists as "plenty."
http://preesi.lefora.com/2012/06/21/jon-scans/#post0
B.S., Jon has not said he gets the kids four days a month that i recall. I know Kate says that but he hasn't. In fact i just reread the People article from June, and not only does he never say he only gets them two weekends a month, and they seem to allude to the fact that he is getting more (I'm surprised I didn't pick up on this before):
"With a new career, new girlfriend and a CUSTODY ARRANGEMENT THAT GIVES HIM PLENTY OF TIME with his eight kids...."
Sounds to me like they're saying it without actually saying it, perhaps per his request. I don't think two weeks a month is something that can be classified by even the most idiotic of journalists as "plenty."
http://preesi.lefora.com/2012/06/21/jon-scans/#post0
Sorry, that So? was from me. I have no idea what I was doing. Please excuse.
Sorry I meant 4 days a month.
I'm sorry I'm so late to the party with the limericks, but I'm in Hawaii so I don't get to read here until much later than the initial postings.
There once was a mother named Kate
Who sold her kids for the best TV rate.
She danced with the stars,
Got her foot licked in bars,
But at home would just yell and berate.
Heide--
Very entertaining and helps break up the intensity tonite.
Fired Up 4 Kate @MiloandJack
@sweetally3443 @SchmeckyGirl @Kateplusmy8 That's the funniest tweet yet...Jon has visitation 2wkends a month. In ur dreams 50/50 custody.
==========================================
Milo's probably going to be the last one to believe anything that doesn't fit her image of Kate, no matter what kind of proof there may turn out to be...
Somebody please answer this: where/when did we first hear the idea that Kate might have been abused as a child? I don't remember where that originated.
Loving the limericks. May I try?
There once was a girl from PA
Who ate only salads each day
She tried to get thin
Just so she'd fit in
With superstars out in LA.
I just went to Leigh's Twitter page, and it seems she sent Kate a message/picture.
pic.twitter.com/9f5WWMTm
Isn't she the woman who stood out in the Walmart parking lot holding a posterboard and shouting at people? And now this? Oh, btw,
Milo says she's the one on the end holding the flowers...
I haven't had time to read all the comments, so I apologize if this has been covered before. I've thought for a long time that KK was/is an abuse survivor, or else PERCEIVES herself to be an abuse survivor. Her moans and complaints about being the "ignored and neglected middle child" and the comments she's made about what she considers her meager allowance as a kid, and the complaints about having to do chores -- I think she feels this was abusive. Whether she was "beaten" or merely punished for misbehavior is moot. If a person perceives treatment as abusive, whether it actually is or not, creates that mindset in the "victim". I do know that her father is/was reportedly rigid, controlling and somewhat controversial in his beliefs. If true, that could equal "abuse". Also, if her mother was truly only 16 or 17 when KK was born it makes for some interesting speculations, at the very least. Her father is what -- 10 or 12 years older than her mother?
Readerlady, 168 -- that is a very sane assessment.
Many of us here at the blog have alluded to or outright spoken of less-than-perfect childhoods. Some grow up and deal with, forgive, and move forward from neglect or cruelty inflicted while they were "helpless".
Some learn to understand and change the pattern.
Whatever happened to Kate (and we don't know the details), she does not seem to have reflected or forgiven.
That is what we care about. Sorry for Kate's alleged childhood. Sorry she is estranged from so many. Sorry that she seems to be raising her children as an absentee mom with rigid expectations.
I, personally, give Jon a "break" because (even with some flaws) he seems warm and embracing and human with the children. I suspect they desperately need that affection.
Admin, I did not find what you said in regards to Kate being abused as a child, but you should be careful repeating such a claim. I was raised in an old fashioned way and getting punished (and these were seldom but I did disobey) were along the lines of being hit with a belt or switch and having to stand in the corner. It was what my parents were taught as far as discipline. I do not believe I was abused or " beaten". I believe your source is attempting to justfy Kate's behavior and garner sympathy. My guess that her siblings will say their parents were disciplinarians but were not abused. There is a difference. Kate's problems are her problems in her head. Since I did not like my parents' form of punishment, I never, ever used an instrument to spank them and spanking was seldom used as punishment. My generation used more time outs and groundings. My parents' discipline did not mess me up so no excuses for Kate. There is a lot more going on with her mentally than we are capable of understanding.
Even if there is something untoward in your childhood, at some point *you* own the ball. You gonna sit there in the nursing home at age 88 saying, wah, not my fault, my mom/dad did whatever to me when I was in 4th grade?
Wow. Lots of crazy stuff tossed around in this thread.
I think I'll wait until the CliffsNotes version comes out to understand what's going on.
When I see a photograph of Kate taking her 3 sons out for the day, outside of that gate to that estate, then I will believe she has bonded with her children. Otherwise, I do believe the Admin.
Kate may have wanted to be a mother at some point in her life, but that has changed 360, she wants OUT. She is slowly getting it.
Beverly Hills, she is still trying to get to you.
What kind of abuse are we talking about? If its physical abuse, get in line Kate! My younger sister got in trouble at school and my mom put beans on the floor and made my sister kneel on them ! She had to stay there from after school til dinner time! Oh, and she was only in 1st. Grade! My sister is the nicest and most loving mother I know!
We don't have any hard feelings towards our parents! They didn't know any better! It's not like they could Google" how is beating the crap out of our children going to affect their mental well being in the future?? Kate's behavior is inexcusable towards her children no matter how strict or unloving her parents were!!
I have always been a silent observer but if she tries to pull that I'm a horrible person because of my parents, I will go and stand outside " The Today Show" with a sign that says " Kate stop with that crap"! Oops, then Milo will know who I.am!! LOL I have never mentioned Milo but I kinda like her! I think she's funny!!
I was going to stop commenting but this stuff ia addictive !! Maybe in the future!
Talk about deja vu. It was exactly a year ago that the non fans were saying Kate's show was cancelled and the fans refused to believe it. And here we go again.
Admin, do you know if there are laws in Arkansas regarding children working in reality TV? I ask because thats where the majority of 19 kids and counting is filmed. `It would be interesting to know where all of the money goes. I wonder if TLC learned a lesson from J&K+8 and is providing each child with a trust. That would help out a lot once the children are married. I know that they expect most of the boys to start their own businesses so the trust could also be used for that.
I am kind of worried though that the children may get the short end of the stick again. We saw it with the J&K. Just think how much those kids would have in their trust if they had been required to set that money aside from the start.
Kate is eager to be part of the big, little any screen. Isn't she aware that there is a film studio in Delaware County. She could have a photo folio of head shots and resume made up to send. Plus, there is an occasional cattle call advertised in the local papers. The ball is now in your court Kate.
Isn't she the woman who stood out in the Walmart parking lot holding a posterboard and shouting at people? And now this? Oh, btw,
Milo says she's the one on the end holding the flowers...
++++++++++++++
I recognize Elvis, but which of the sheeple has pigtails, and which one has a tongue that hangs out? I thought it was Milo, since she slobbers over Kate, but if she's the one holding the flowers, then that's not her.
She's at blogher in NYC but no blogging from Kate. Silly woman.
At least the kids get more privacy when Queenie gets a 'business' trip. No tweets from her, she has clearly checked out on her way out of town. And again, not one advert for the folks paying her tab for the latest boondoggle. Who at CC dies not get this snub from their blogger stah? You would think she could manage one tweet and a link to this conference.
I know this continues the psychobabble, but I just cannot imagine a home with a teenage mother (3 babies by 17), and a strict, rigid father. And as a middle child too. Having no contact with parents and sibs is a very serious decision.
Agree too that the day she is seen out with her sons, well, I think pigs will be flying - she is no longer interested in mothering, too selfish and self-absorbed, too sure that the world awaits her close-up.
Let's throw tomatoes said... 174
*******
This was my first reaction to the abuse claim. Corporal punishment is viewed far differently today than 30 years ago. I mean, are we talking spanking, switches, belts?
Kneeling on beans? Ouch!! I've heard of kneeling on rice, but beans are worse. I'm sure your parents did a great job in raising all of you and are loving, wonderful people. So were mine, who used a belt from time to time.
I got over it.
The thing with Kate is that she is a master of manipulation and offers a kernel of truth in what she says. She implies, suggests and uses innuendo to a "T". Combine that with her well-rehearsed demeanor and let your imagination fly.
Take her interview with Natalie Morales. When asked about her parents, who even then were known to be out of the grandkids lives, Kate replied with nebulous statements such as "they don't know how to help me". What the hell does that mean. Kate looks forlorn and on the verge of tears, and who is going to press the issue further?
No one. So far, that is.
I'm confident in Admin and her sources and have thought about revealing the abuse allegation, and I support Admin's decision to relate that information. I think it's relative to the behaviors that we've witnessed and may be a key to why Kate appears to not have bonded with some of her children, namely those with a Y chromosome.
To those who disagree, remember that this is not confirmed with any proof or first hand witnessing. My understanding is that this is what Kate has said and we have no idea what it means exactly. Emotional abuse? Verbal? Sexual? Physical? Are we talking corporal punishment or broken bones and cigarette burns here?
We don't know, it's an allegation with very broad strokes, so what this has really revealed, I do not know.
It's a shame she can't manage even one promotional tweet from the conference.
Some people are assuming the Star magazine article is fact. Maybe it is, maybe is isn't. It's a tabloid magazine whose sole purpose is to make money. Like the internet, anybody can say anything and it's up to the reader to believe or not. I, for one, am going with administrator on this one. My choice. But the bigger mess is the fact that any of this information is out there to begin with. They both need to STFU.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 182
It's a shame she can't manage even one promotional tweet from the conference.
-------
If she had any brains or business sense, she'd use this time to network and learn how to make her own blog a moneymaker. These women, along with the impressive list of speakers and guests, are incredible resources. She already has a 'name', even if it's tarnished, and it wouldn't be hard at all to tap into all the conference offers.
I have a hard time feeling sympathy for Kate, even if she was abused. It's one thing to be a helpless child and quite another when you get another chance at the parent/child relationship.
My dad was horribly abused by his stepfather. He was beaten physically with farm instruments on many occasions (shovels, pitchforks, etc.), and once his mother died after my dad tirelessly cared for her (her husband couldn't be bothered, he was immediately shown the door - kicked out with nothing.
He did have some anger issues at times, but he never once in all our lives took so much as a hand to us. Not once did he ever touch us unless he was giving us hugs and kisses. While he wasn't frequently openly affectionate, he also showed his love by words, fun, jokes, beautifully handwritten cards penned in calligraphy, camping trips, attending every one of our functions proudly, encouraging us in our talents, and working his fingers to the bone to make sure we went to a Christian high school and graduated from college. He taught himself to play several musical instruments by ear so beautifully that he could bring people who listened to him to tears.
We make our choices as adults. He chose to love. Kate chooses to use, exploit, and stomp on anyone she doesn't care for or need for her own selfish gain.
Love the tweet Hoffman put on his website. It's a quote of Kate's, and it leads me to believe he has hard evidence of racism on Kate's part. I could be wrong, but it sounds like it.
Let's throw tomatoes said... 174
What kind of abuse are we talking about? If its physical abuse, get in line Kate! My younger sister got in trouble at school and my mom put beans on the floor and made my sister kneel on them ! She had to stay there from after school til dinner time! Oh, and she was only in 1st. Grade! My sister is the nicest and most loving mother I know!
We don't have any hard feelings towards our parents! They didn't know any better! It's not like they could Google" how is beating the crap out of our children going to affect their mental well being in the future?? Kate's behavior is inexcusable towards her children no matter how strict or unloving her parents were!!
********
I'm sorry, but saying that parents didn't know any better because they couldn't Google is ridiculous. First, a smidge of common sense would tell you that it is not okay to make a young child kneel in beans for hours as punishment. Second, before the age of the Internet, there were plenty of opportunities to learn about appropriate child rearing. Ever heard of books? I'm pretty sure you didn't grow up before the advent of them.
***********
I have always been a silent observer but if she tries to pull that I'm a horrible person because of my parents...
***********
Reminder: Kate has not said word one in public about any childhood abuse. The only person spouting off publicly on the subject is this blog's administrator.
I have a fairly accurate recall of JOn not willy nilly swapping days with Kate for her convenience about a year ago. He thought it was better to stick to the schedule, a good idea knowing Kate.
I am on the west coast and everybody I know who has children in the last 10 years has gone for a 50-50 split on custody so nobody pays CS. I would have thought this would be bad for the kids but oddly, I haven't heard them complain. It requires the parents to live in close proximity, and the kids have clothes, toys, games, electronics in both homes. The goods don't move with the kids. The have 2 sets of everything. I imagine tuition and sport costs are still split.
Tomato, I'm so glad you are still here.
Jane, exactly. A lot of bloggers would give anything to be able to be at this conference, soaking in all the wealth of information and building a network of contracts.
She'll probably be sitting there picking dirt out of her manicure and checking the time on her iPhone every 10 minutes.
I don't think anyone has said IF Kate was abused it excuses anything. Nor has Kate tried to use it as a sympathy ploy. She may never will.
I do have to agree with "Don't Excuse" however that just because it was "back in the day" does not mean abuse was okay. I know plenty of parents "back in the day" who never laid a hand on their children. They somehow knew it was wrong.
Rather than spending her time networking and educating herself, this is where Schmoopy will be:
BlogHer @BlogHer
FREE Mani’s by @bwaynails! Head over to their booth for a sample of #impressmanicure or sched an appt & have them applied by the experts!
Bordie Collie the families I see who get out with 50-50 are some of the least likely to return to court with any problems. It seems to work out, usually.
Of course when you go in from the beginning willing to do 50-50 it says a lot about your ability to compromise and put kids first.
Mandy said... 185
******
I literally puddled up reading that. What a moving testimony to your father. Free will is a beautiful thing, isn't it?
The kompound stayed with KKate for the kids....so now does KKate give back 50% of the house???
If, as we have speculated, Kate is uncomfortable around people -- she is having a bad day now. A crowded convention, in a booth, expected to meet and greet and answer questions. She might be looking for a curtain to hide behind!
Gaby, Kate probably bought out Jon's 50% share of the house when the divorce was settled although I can't remember if they ever talked about this publicly. That's over and done with, custody is a separate issue.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 189
I don't think anyone has said IF Kate was abused it excuses anything. Nor has Kate tried to use it as a sympathy ploy. She may never will.
*****************************************
I didn't mean to imply that anyone has, though it's a sure bet that if proof of her abuse gets out, the sheeple will probably try to use that argument.
I was simply pointing out that if she were abused, it's no excuse for what she does to her children.
I have not ever seen Kate let a good sympathy ploy go to waste. She has no sense of shame or privacy. I can't help but think that if she were abused, she would probably not hesitate to use it to paint herself in a more sympathetic light in order to have more grifting ammo. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Maybe she was actually the golden child of a narcissist. Who knows?
Hear, hear, Capecodmama (183)! We're talking about Star Magazine, here, for Pete's sake! They've been announcing poor Jennifer Aniston's pregnancy for ages. ("Twins!" "A boy and a girl!") and with so many potential fathers ("I never stopped loving Brad!" "I never stopped loving John Mayers!" 'I never stopped loving Vince Vaughn!" "Angelina, eat your heart out: I'm carrying Brad's baby!" ) Star has never been renowned for its reporting accuracy. And considering that Jon is still employed by Gameface, I think it's pretty safe to think that he is NOT the source of the rest of the information. Star Magazine whipped it up, or the famously ubiquitous "a close source" did. The same one who use to listen to very private conversations between Oprah and Stedman about their sex life.
If she was spanked and she considers it a form of abuse, then she'd be admitting that she herself is an abuser, so I doubt she'll be playing that card.
Do we know if Kate agreed to the 50/50 split or whether Jon requested it and circumstances compelled the court to agree and Kate had to comply?
Hi Admin, I was trying to be funny :P
Poor Jon got the shaft all the way around.
And if Kate is feeling lonely now, how does she feel when she is alone in her mansion.
I do have to agree with "Don't Excuse" however that just because it was "back in the day" does not mean abuse was okay. I know plenty of parents "back in the day" who never laid a hand on their children. They somehow knew it was wrong.
+++++++++
True, but I also think it depends where you were brought up, and if your parents were spanked by their parents. Kate grew up in Lancaster County, the daughter of a minister, where spare the rod, spoil the child, was the mindset of strict parents. The term "beaten and abused" is often used now in the same context as being spanked. Years ago, spanking was not being beaten, nor was it being abused...it was the way many kids were disciplined, especially in this area by strict parents who saw nothing wrong with it.
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