According to author Robert Hoffman, who says he is in possession of notes and diaries that Kate used to write Multiple Blessings and Eight Little Faces, Kate wrote entry after entry about disiplining the kids.
The entries include:
- Kate used a wooden spoon she called "The Spanker" to discipline the kids for transgressions as minor as climbing out of their cribs or potty training issues.
 |
| A wooden spoon was indeed spotted more than once in the pocket of their car door. |
- Kate, in her own words "lost it" when Collin ate some M&Ms without permission.
- Kate “felt like I may hurt his children.”
- Kate preferred the kids out of sight when she was upset where they would be "safe"
- When Collin threw a tantrum, Kate says she “sent him to his crib and whipped him into it very hard...I never felt that I may really seriously injure a child, but today was that day.”
"You could hear Kate forcefully whacking the child and the child screaming at the top of his lungs," the ex-employee reported.
Kate has never denied the allegations in the interview.
1797 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1797 Newer› Newest»Anonymous said...(193)
"I got out by becoming pregnant when I was 16. I grew up, got married, had my 3 daughters. NOT 1 DAY did I EVER hit any of my kids, and never called them any names, and never made fun of them. I worked very hard to break that cycle of abuse, some days it was not easy, but I am proud to have been the one who broke that awful cycle. So I don't care if kate was abused!!"
Wow, that's amazing. You should be very proud of yourself. I know first hand how hard it is to break that cycle.
I got pregnant at 16 too, although I had left home a year earlier. Unfortunately, I had a little trouble breaking the cycle and I had to call CPS on myself - there was no one else around to do it.
That had to be the hardest thing I ever did in my life. I turned myself in for having hurt my child and I voluntarily put him in foster care for 3 months. In the meantime, I took parenting classes, signed up for school and started building a positive support system to help me care for him.
These are the kinds of things parents who really want what's best for their kids do. Not hide behind lawyers, production companies and twitter, lying about the kind of parent they are.
I think TLC also bears some responsibility here... these allegations of abuse are serious, and fit in with a lot of things we have heard over the years. TLC had to know that Kate was abusive and that the children were at risk. Maybe the body guards were more to protect the kids from Kate - but still since they have so many resources, could they not have suggested some counselling for Kate... Could they have not have told Kate - stop beating your kids or we will expose you, or we will stop the show. Did they keep the show going, knowing what she was, and what she was doing, because they could cash in on the fake family bliss. Did they try to destroy Jon because he wouldn't go along with the money train.
If anything their behaviour is immoral - if only it could be proven to be illegal.
admin, does the reporting of possible child abuse supercede a C/A? If so, could these people who signed such a non-disclosure have not known this? If they did know that if they saw things and could have reported them even if they signed a C/A, were they still too afraid of Kate (and her team of high-powered attorneys) to report what they witnessed?
I am anon #193, forgot to say that my daughter is kate's age, has 5 kids age 5 and under, and she has never, ever said an unkind word to her children, and certainly has never hit them. I remember with she began having babies, she would never allow them to see her looking at them without having a smile on her face. The result of breaking the abusive cycle.
I think the kids love Jon, but also seem to hug and cling to any adult who pays them attention.
--------------
Perhaps that was true at one point, but I don't think that's any longer the case.
Good for you, Sherri, to protect your kids! It must have been very difficult to turn yourself in, but such an act of love as their mother. I hope you are enjoying life with them today:)
rule #3. No refusing to let things go and move on. We won't agree about Jon. We have spoken and heard. Is the conversation going anywhere?
As expected, I see that one of Kate's bigger defenders (and one of the biggest Jon attackers) is going nuts on Twitter and asking for...nay, DEMANDING...proof of the allegations, all the while screaming LIES! LIES! LIES! and ASSuming Jon gave Hoffman this info. According to her, it can't possibly be true.
Isn't she aware Hoffman took a lie detector test?
Anonymous said... 199
Jon is not mentally disabled. He chose to get married and have children at a young age. And with that choice came responsibility. You are not less responsible for the welfare of your children because you are young.
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ITA! No argument from me. I'm just saying, psychology of abused individuals isn't as black and white as those of us from the outside looking in think it is.
We all know what Jon should have done, but psychologically he may not have been capable.
Trust me, I'm no Jon fan, I just think this is far more psychologically complicated than we can even imagine. If your spouse had no problem complaining on camera about how you breathe, I can't imagine what life was like off camera for 10 years.
Does that negate your responsibility to put your children's welfare above your own? ABSOLUTELY NOT! But his mental state might not have been there. After that many years of being told you're nothing, you may not even think you're the best parent for your kids.
I have no expertise in the field at all. Just thinking. I've seen from 25 years of legal work, people handle things in ways that seem completely illogical to those of us without a direct emotional investment in the situation.
Parent;
Yes, I am going by the episodes and I know you have more up-to-date info. Is it b/ age? Or why- if you cannot say I understand. I love your posts- voice of reality check.I hope the kids are now ok, not beaten.
This has now gone viral. Celebitchy is speculating that Jon had a hand in Robert's revelations.
There are such things as closet abusers who don't do it when others are watching.
Yep. Charming in public. In private....a different person. VERY good at seeing to it that no one else sees that ugly persona.
anonymous 8 said... 7
rule #3. No refusing to let things go and move on. We won't agree about Jon. We have spoken and heard. Is the conversation going anywhere?
********
Who is the "we?" Are you claiming to speak for everyone who posts on this blog? That's pretty ballsy.
You re-hash the same stuff over and over here all the time. It's only when someone dares to disagree with the majority that Rule #3 suddenly comes into the equation.
I never believed that extortion story, but if it were true, it means not only did Jon know they were being abused & leave them there, but he also knew and used the information to bribe Kate for money, exploiting the kids for his own gain. I think Jon is doing better now but I still don't think he's doing the absolute best he can. That quote calling her a good mother was very recent. Supposedly he was taken out of context and on twitter said "wait til you read the whole story" but once the story was published it didn't change what he said and he didn't deny saying it.
I've lost track of how many Anonomice are here today. Admin it's your blog but could I ask nicely that people pick names? I'm not sure if it's 1, 2, or more and it gets hard to respond to comments.
Thanks! And please delete if this is blog on blog.
I know Jon plays into this somewhere...with that I say...good for him...she must spitting nails...could you just imagine her rage today? Jon is really becoming a thorn in her side! HE HE...I hope this spreads like wildfire..
I cannot believe that TLC was not aware of this.
I wonder what's locked away regarding footage and hope it comes to light.
Bubbles said... 14
''...That quote calling her a good mother was very recent. Supposedly he was taken out of context and on twitter said "wait til you read the whole story" but once the story was published it didn't change what he said and he didn't deny saying it.''
~~~~~~~~~~
Yes....THAT story was published, but I think that the story we're hearing now is going to be ''the whole story.'' I also remember that many of us voiced the opinion that it was possible/probable that Jon said the ''good mother'' thing in order to not get Kate in an uproar.
I'm amazed at how much of what many of us have said/speculated over the past few years on this blog are now going to be confirmed in the book.
Bubbles, I never believed that story of Hailey's either. I've never been a fan of Jon's, he's always come across as kind of a douche, but I don't think he'd say nothing if Kate was abusing the kids. Especially back then when he couldn't say enough bad stuff about her. If that story of Hailey's were true he would have been singing it from the rooftops.
I have lurked a long time here and lately have been keeping up with the comments in anticipation of the book. I just want to chime in on the Jon/Custody/CPS thing real quick. I live in California, arguably the state with some of the toughest child abuse laws in the nation. My husband has custody of 2 of 3 children with his ex wife. One of the kids we have custody of is severely mentally handicapped. I take pictures of him when he leaves here and when he comes home so this is documented stuff (we say it is so we can remember what clothes he had on when he left so she is literally standing next to him at pick up and drop off). I have reported with pictures: a bruise and swelling on his forehead the size of a golf ball, a very dark bruise in the form of 3 fingers grabbing around his upper arm, a completely formed bottom-of-a-shoe print on his back, half of one of his bottom teeth broken off and her admitting in a text message that she opened his bedroom door in anger because he was in there screaming for her and she hit him with the door and broke his tooth off, ........ I could go on. Over 12 years you can imagine. She always gets out of it. CPS has substantiated abuse but didn't take the kids! She had to take one summer, 3 months, off from seeing the special needs child and was supposed to get counseling during that time. But she never did and she had the local authorities come out and make us enforce visitation after the 90 day "break" period.
To some I am sure it appears we have "done nothing" despite me taking pictures every time he leaves with her (without injury) and taking pictures of his injuries when he arrives home, I have called the police numerous times minutes after he is dropped back off to come to our home to document the abuse, we have taken her to court so many times that there are 2 full files handed up to the judge when it is their turn. Nothing. Ever. Happens. The last time their 14 year old neuro-typical son told the CPS worker that when the special needs child gets loud or has tantrums the mom locks him in his room for the rest of the day, spanks him, withholds meals and/or throws food at him, etc. We think finally this time they will do something, and then the call comes to let her have her visitation and the letter comes that they aren't acting. There is nothing more we can do. If we withhold visits she brings the police out to enforce. If we continue with court filings we are harassing her because none of the cps stuff sticks.
It is a never ending cycle of SUCK.
SO please, don't assume what you don't know and don't live. Just don't. From someone who has to sit with paranoia every other weekend in fear of what my step son who I have raised since age 4 (16 now) and watch my husbands anguish at having to give his son over to this woman not knowing (or knowing) what he will endure over the next 48 hours, please don't sit in judgment when you have absolutely no idea what Jon or anyone else has tried to do for those kids.
Isn't she aware Hoffman took a lie detector test?
-----------------
Would that really matter to her if she did know? The sheeple will say that the lie detector test was manipulated, demanding to know if it was administered by a person approved by lawyers on both sides. Their excuses for Kate will know no bounds.
These are sheeple. There is no logic. They are as blind as blind can be to the truth.
I'm surprised that they haven't come out with, "the kids must have deserved it."
fidosmommy said... 187
[excerpt]
I believe Kate is hardwired for mean and reactive.
************************************************
I agree.
SeeSaw said... 15
I've lost track of how many Anonomice are here today. Admin it's your blog but could I ask nicely that people pick names? I'm not sure if it's 1, 2, or more and it gets hard to respond to comments.
Thanks! And please delete if this is blog on blog.
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I agree. This is getting out of control. Why are those people afraid of saying what they have to say with their regular screen names?
I find it interesting that Kate is not blogging or putting out a press release about the bad publicity she's getting today. Instead she's baking cookies, playing the good mother. Perhaps her publicist and lawyer are telling her to not to say anything.
I'm perplexed by the snotty and mean comments about Kate today.
On a normal day it's fun to tease and snark. But this is serious and has left many of us sickened.
I don't get the glee about imagining her punishments. I see this as more somber and tragic.
If you want what's best for the kids you should be hoping against hope that this monster gets help.
What a sad mess.
Bubbles...why so obsessed with Jon? I don't think Jon cares if you don't think hes doing his best....just a hunch....BTW....you have NO idea what hes doing.... good or bad..could you go now...you sound like a broken record and your giving me a headache.
On a lighter note, Stephanie is in my neck of the woods. Only 2.8 miles away :)
My goodness, that girl gets around.
MIT,
Thank you for sharing. I so sorry that your family is going through such horrors. CPS needs to get their head out of their arse.
Kat, I doubt Kate cares what you say about her, either. Why the diss on Bubbles? She's just giving an opinion, same as you. Why is your opinion OK to express but her's gives you a headache?
Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said... 33
CBS News has the story:
CBS 21 News @CBS21NEWS
"Did Kate Gosselin hit her children with a wooden spoon? "
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Best news so far on the day.
I am sick at the thought of the physical pain inflicted on those babies, the terror, the lonliness, the confusion. And what has this done to the older girls, witnessing this? no wonder Mady has tried so so so hard over the years to protect them, hold them, and plead their cases for them. Poor Mady and Cara, their fear ~~~ My God.
Kat, please leave Bubbles alone.
You seem to be enjoying your mean girl role in stirring things up.
I say they are both to blame in this. To what degree we may never really know.
However both parents are to blame here.
Berks, I mentioned Jon getting the apartment in NYC, and you make a point I never considered. It seemed so obvious at the time that Jon was being edged out of the show, the house, everything. I took it for granted that Kate would get the house. If Jon trusted Kate, that they would share custody and the house indefinitely, than his getting the NY place seems less abandonment and more practical. It appeared that Jon was moving on with his own life, and leaving the kids to their mother. Silly Jon, didn't he hear Kate say," Its mine, all mine."?
My mother had narcissistic tendencies and she physically and emotionally abused us. Not just wooden spoons or slaps or spankings but full blown beatings with the flat of her hand so there were no bruises.
We had no extended family, no close friends and grew up in an era when parents were seen to be able to discipline their children as they saw fit.
I had no grandmother to run to or no favourite aunt to call upon. No one. My father was unaware of the abuse as it always occurred while he was away or at work and in any case discipline was my mother's domain.
We were warned not to repeat anything that happened at home. Everything that happened behind closed doors was to stay there. Besides we knew if we spoke out the repercussions would be doubled and were not going to be pleasant.
Had anyone "outed" my mother I would have been devastated and terrified. She was all that I knew, the only mother I had.
I am so afraid for those kids and I know that their reactions will not be simple relief or gratitude that someone understands. It will be sheer terror and a disruption of their whole lives.
It is much too complicated to say "good for those kids" and "I'm glad that karma is finally knocking at Kate's door."
My heart is breaking for them all right now.
As an adult one has experience and perspective but those kids aren't there yet with their emotions and won't be for years to come.
Mit:
I feel for your family and especially your stepson. What a horrible situation.
I agree we don't have all the facts - may never have them- and we are assuming and presuming. It's just been so long in coming that Kate is exposed.I don't wish a harsh punishment necessarily- public exposure, yes, - just what is in the best interest of all the kids.
Leave Bubbles Alone said... 29
Kat, I doubt Kate cares what you say about her, either. Why the diss on Bubbles? She's just giving an opinion, same as you. Why is your opinion OK to express but her's gives you a headache?
*********
Bubbles is being dissed because Kat has no respect for anyone who doesn't share her opinion and is consistently nasty.
@31...ARE YOU FOR REAL?? Why stay here then? To try to put the focus on Jon when its that slimey piece of garbage you should be concerned with...
Not a fan of Hoffman said... 150
Kat at 148, I'm not Anon but I didn't get that from her. I got the impression she was asking why in the world would Robert not say anything sooner? If he's known for this long that these children were in the care of an abuser, why did he taunt her for months? Why not speak up immediately? For the sake of the kids.
and
Anonymous said... 161
KAT said... 148
I'll take this one...Anon...@142...let me get this straight...you don't want Kate outed because she might take it out on the kids? Do you have any conception of how idiotic that sounds? I think your dear Kate has done enough damage to those kids..are you protecting a child abuser... you freakin' sicko..
That is not what I said. Learn to read before you accuse someone of being a "freakin' sicko." He could have published the book without the months of creepy taunting, building up to the "big reveal." Again, why would he taunt the woman for months if he truly believes that she is an abusive loose cannon? Talk about being a sicko.
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I think there is a lot of speculating and second guessing and arm-chair quarterbacking going on with Mr. Hoffman's recent release of information and I don't think it is serving any of us well. Remember, Mr. Hoffman wanted to release the book months ago, but Kate thought she could prevent it (the "taunting" as you call it, was done imo, before the planned release & before Kate's lawyers interfered and was intended as pre-release hype).
We don't know that Mr Hoffman didn't call CPS years ago or didn't speak to Jon or Kate about his concerns about the children then too. We just don't know! Calling people names, assuming things happened or didn't, whether it be other posters here or Kate or Jon or Mr. Hoffman doesn't help anyone or anything.
Instead of pointing fingers and assuming things that are by unknown for whatever reason (CPS calls, interaction between Mr. Hoffman and Kate or Jon or others), I think we'd be best served by less speculation and accusation and more waiting for FACTS to be released. We've waited this long for the truth to be told and I hope we can wait just a bit longer.
Ok, off my soapbox now. Hurry if you can Mr. Hoffman with the book release - we're getting antsy. ;-)
I feel bad for Bubbles. Just because someone doesn't adore Jon doesn't mean they don't hate Kate just as much as the rest of the posters here.
I agree with those who say the sheep will see no fault with Kate ever. Hoffman could have tape from TLC of Kate beating the crap out of the kids with the spoon and picking them up by the hair and their anger would be directed 100% at TLC for not stopping it instead of angry with Kate for doing it.
I don't understand adults with their thinking. I can see the teenagers being more easily manipulated, but even they baffle me. First of all, what teenager worships a 37 year old housewife. Second of all, she treats you like crap. Geez, poor Paige begging for an acknowledgement of the gift she sent Kate and Kate responding with a terse - yes, Paige, I got your effing gift. Now leave me the hell alone. I'll tweet you when I decide I have time to open it. Quit asking about it in the meantime.
I read when Mommie Dearest came out, fans were upset with Christina Crawford. Even though people backed up Christina's claims, they couldn't believe what Christina was doing to Joan's memory. Bizzaro!
Kate's defenders can't possibly know that she had her lawyers do all they could to ensure the book was not published. In the end it will be published since Robert Hoffman appears to have the 'evidence' to support what he has written. Do they not get it that some of the 'evidence' is in K's own words?
bm
Anon @142...No..go back and read your post..you didn't want kate exposed bacause she might take it out on the kids...I'm paraphrasing..you left out one little sentence....Ha
Kat, let it go.
You're acting like a bully.
Maybe Jon's side of the story will be told in the book. We'll just have to wait and see.
Marie
I don't know if we'll ever know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. My thoughts are this; child abuse is ugly and dealing with a child abuser who seemed to fly under the radar could put those kids in even more danger. If Kate found out who the 'culprit' was who snitched on her (and she would go ballistic if she found out) she would not only turn her rage on the person(s) who reported her, but the children also. Which leads me to believe that money wasn't the only factor when Jodi and Kevin were swiftly cut off from the kids and were no longer on the show.
I need to look at the timeline, but perhaps CPS had already been called in by an unknown someone and nothing was done about it. Kate would have blamed everyone around her for reporting her including her brother and his wife. Hence, they were OUT.
Jodi and Kevin seeing that nothing could be done by CPS, instead went to Rep. Murt to enlist his help in stopping or at least limiting the hours those kids were working. They may have seen it as a way to be helpful for those kids in the safest way possible.
Does any of this makes any sense? I'm hoping the people that cared most for those kids did all they could, and didn't stand by and let it happen.
If the stuff for the bake sale is for extra credit, shouldn't the kids be making it?
Which is worse, hearing that people think your mother-figure is a piece of shit and call her nasty names OR getting smacked around with her hand on bare skin/hit with spoons/having hair pulled to move you around? How much can the names hurt when they have felt her wrath and know the names are true?
KAT said... 42
Anon @142...No..go back and read your post..you didn't want kate exposed bacause she might take it out on the kids...I'm paraphrasing..you left out one little sentence....Ha
****************************
You are doing more than paraphrasing, you are completely misrepresenting. That is not what I said, period. Stop lying.
You're right...I guess I just get upset when innocent children are being beaten by a monster like Kate...
Sorry for using ANON today, never meant to ruin the blog for you! I just was not comfortable putting out my real name when talking about the abuse I got. After the first post, you can see that I went back to using my name. So sorry.
My adult siblings and I often discuss how we survived our parents neglect and abuse. We lived in the best neighbourhood, went to private schools and did our best to pretend all was normal at home. Looking back, it was all about coping skills and the knowledge we had one another to plot our maneuvers to avoid being at the mercy of an alcoholic father and a passive, disinterested mother.
As these revelations come to light, we can take some comfort in knowing that as Kate's kids have grown they have developed strategies and coping skills, obviously some better than others. And, they have each other to validate their feelings.
My father died when I was 12, so his treatment of us was over, but we all held resentment toward our mother for not defending us. These were very different times back then (50's -60's) and my mother was completely dependent on our father both emotionally and financially.
Most kids of abuse are Academy Award worthy actors, we all live to keep the secret. The thought of those kids knowing their secret is out will be a combination of embarrassment and a very small bit of relief. Because, inside the relief lives the fear of the abusive parent blaming you for the story getting out in the first place.
As for Jon, it's complicated. We don't know how things were set up inside the house once he left, certainly there were others there capable of reporting back to him. Jon's shortcomings to me come in the form of a lack of maturity and his inability to find an outlet of communication outside the realm of entertainment. Lets hope he chooses wisely, and stays off the ET circuit, besides Kate will have gotten there first!
The one thing I do believe is that he may not have been the best parent, but he was the better one in that household.
The bodyguard story is getting more press than the spoon beating story. Go figure.
Marie
Remember the "Walk in the Woods" episode? Jon clearly showed that he will hit the kids in anger.
Kate hit those kids. Jon hit those kids. They both still do that. They have both hit them in anger. Kate sounds like she was the worse of the two parents, but Jon is far from innocent.
The kids have it easier with Jon, but it's still not a great situation. For those who talk about Jon getting full custody, I really hate to say this but I don't think Jon wants that. He doesn't have the space or the funds to raise the kids alone.
Jon called Kate a good mom because he doesn't realize that she is a HORRIBLE mother. He honestly doesn't see it.
Jumping in . . . you are a voice of reason. I will step back from blaming Jon right now until more facts are known.
Marie
Add me to the list of those who cannot let Jon and anyone else who witnessed the abuse of these children be without blame for the abuse continuing. Kate is sick and twisted and there is no excuse for Jon leaving those children in the house with her. As a mother of three, who was also an abused child, there is no way I would ever leave my children with an abuser-NO MATTER WHAT!
I believe that Kate's abuse of the children was a factor in the cancellation of the show as well since TLC had to be aware of it and was concerned about liability.
I do think that Robert is a hero. I think be battled Kate and her army of high price lawyers and brought this truth to light. I also do not believe he would have been comfortable publishing any of this without proof.
I do not think the children are in any more danger because these allegations have been made public. Kate is well aware that all eyes are on her now, that every injury the children have will be suspect.
Those poor children, exploited, abused and defenseless.
Patience - 38
Very, very well said. We all need to follow that advice. Well, *I* need to follow the advice, not speaking for the rest of the board.
Looking at you Dwindle :)
Okay. We were expecting a bombshell,just not one like this. I don't think the abuse allegations are shocking, I think the 'degree' of abuse is what is sending all of us into a tailspin.
An earlier poster stated she knew there had been two cps reports already on the family.
We don't know what Jon knew or didn't.
Who knew what/when/where/blah blah doesn't matter at the moment. What matters are the kids. They are what is important. Let's not lose sight of that.
Attacking each other on this blog solves nothing. The welfare and safety of the children is first and foremost. Those that need help, let's hope they get it.
I'm like you guys, I am just reeling from this news today. So horrible.
And thanks to all that shared their own personal stories of abuse and hurt. Those that haven't experienced abuse need to really listen to those that have.
Anonymous said...
Tucker's Mom said... 172
That's true. But I hope that CPS doesn't base their decisions on what kind of a house someone lives in.
Marie
************
You can hope all you want, but of course they do.
People with resources can hide abuse more effectively, and can more effectively block CPS from taking action. CPS units know this, and prioritize accordingly.
Apparently Beth never signed a non-disclosure agreement, probably because it was too early in the game. Then she sat on the diary entries, which she legitimately had, because there was no way to release them so that anything would get done.
Hoffman came along, and suddenly there was a chance of really getting the information out.
Are those kids still being abused? You bet.
Kate will continue to hit, pinch, shove, break and throw things until those kids are big enough to hit her back, and willing to do it. The next hellish phase of her life is only beginning.
Jumping in said... (50)
" we all live to keep the secret " and that is exactly right.
After reading some of the very personal stories here today I can see why we have been following this whole sorry saga on this blog and elsewhere. Some of us have very personal reasons for seeing how this all plays out but I hope for only the best outcomes for the kids.
Two Parents- both to blame said... 52
What? I don't recall Jon hitting the kids in that episode? I remember he was annoyed at their whining and hitting each other with sticks and broke one stick and the tup looked scared but I don't think he hurt anyone. I agree he was angry though.
Remona Blue said... 179
In MY opinion, Jon removing himself from the household could very well be his effort to reduce Kate's anger at him, therefore an effort to reduce Kate's abuse of the children
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not defending Jon. Right now I am livid with him, with the nannies, with TLC, with all of them.
But I agree with Remona. An abuser will constantly say "You made me do it. You upset me. Look what you made me do." It is POSSIBLE that Jon was so victimized he believed he was responsible for Kate's abuse toward the children.
There have been cases where mothers have fled an abusive husband, leaving teenaged sons behind because they believe the abuse is all their own fault and the sons are bonded with the father. It's possible Jon felt Kate would be calmer if he wasn't around to upset and disappoint her, and that babies are naturally bonded to a mother. And when Kate threw him out, he had no where to take 8 little kids, not even for a week. Could have/should have, yes absolutely. And I fault him for that - he could have should have put those 8 kids in the BBB and driven to the police station, at least gone on record right away with it. In MY opinion, that is.
Marie,
I'm not sure if anyone addressed this already, but Hailey had "notes" and gave them to ROL. You can see they were in different handwriting than Jon's and they spoke in the third person. She then claimed Jon often spoke about himself in third person. Hailey was outright lying.
I do believe Kate hurt Mady's arm. I believe Mady told Jon. Hailey claimed he made it up but at the time Mady was definitley old enough to tell CPS what happened. She was 9 or ten. Nothing Hailey said made sense. Nothing added up. However there were some notes that seemed to be written by Jon and I believe those were real. The ones in "third person" were not.
Wonder where the kids are today? No school today for Gosselin kids; hope there's a nanny around and hopefully Jon has them for dinner. Wonder what "wonderful fun production" is happening today with kids?
Most kids of abuse are Academy Award worthy actors, we all live to keep the secret.
Thus the happy, happy, happy, joy, joy, joy, unicorns, rainbows, lollip tweets from said person when things are particularly bad.
Hailey is a lying fame whore. I kept waiting for the announcement that she and Kate Majors were dating. It seemed like something the two of them would do for publicity.
Watch both of them climb out of the gutter, making statements, if this Kate Gosselin abuse story ever gains traction.
heather
I believe that Kate's abuse of the children was a factor in the cancellation of the show as well since TLC had to be aware of it and was concerned about liability.
Wonder if the liability side is where Sarah Palin had some influence.
Mit ...20
SO please, don't assume what you don't know and don't live. Just don't. From someone who has to sit with paranoia every other weekend in fear of what my step son who I have raised since age 4 (16 now) and watch my husbands anguish at having to give his son over to this woman not knowing (or knowing) what he will endure over the next 48 hours, please don't sit in judgment when you have absolutely no idea what Jon or anyone else has tried to do for those kids.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mit, I can absolutely relate and you are totally correct. Reading your post was a gut wrenching reminder of past events in our lives. But after several years of court battles, it all turned out for the best. I can't tell you don't worry because that's impossible, but hang in there. I'm sure you're doing all that can be done.
Just because the end result hasn't been reached (and that means the Gosselin children are protected 100% of the time, whatever it takes)doesn't mean there aren't ongoing efforts behind the scenes to make that happen.
I anticipate the follow sheeple responses:
It's all lies.
R Hoffman is jellus of Kate's... um... bazooms.
Jon made her do it, coz he didnt know how to help her.
Kate has a good heart, we can 'feel' it.
A mother who clips coupons would never do that.
The haterz are always picking on Kate!
Dont judge unless you have 8 count em 8 too.
You would do it too if you could.
Everyone spanks their child.
Some of those kids deserve a beating, they dont appreciate all Kate does for them.
The poor thing needs some MEEE time.
Well, maybe she did in the past, but she is the second coming of the Blessed Mother now, so it doesnt matter.
Babies that age are too young to remember it, so it's all good.
That mean Admin on 15Mins put Hoffman up to this.
@Kate, where did you get the wooden spoon? do you have a link?
SG said... 61
What happened to Mady's arm? I am hearing all sorts of things I never knew. Is it just Hailey's version or what? How was CPS involved?
Mit 20 -- My heart breaks for you, your DH, and your DSSs. Thank you for sharing your story. You've made the point that those of us who've been in the trenches one way or another have been trying to get across. Don't judge Jon for what he did, or didn't do, to help those kids until we actually KNOW what was done or left undone. Hopefully this book will go a long way to clearing up those questions. If it turns out that he just said "screw it. I don't care what happens to the kids" and just picked up and left, I'll be the first in line to call for his head on KKs golden platter. Until then, I'll reserve judgment. (( )) and prayers for you and your family.
Formerly Duped said... 59
Two Parents- both to blame said... 52
What? I don't recall Jon hitting the kids in that episode? I remember he was annoyed at their whining and hitting each other with sticks and broke one stick and the tup looked scared but I don't think he hurt anyone. I agree he was angry though.
******
Agree. Angry, caused Alexis to cry when he broke her stick and wouldn't let her have a new one, but he did not hit her nor any of them.
He was clearly rethinking the wisdom of this walk in the woods for a few minutes there ... but they did see a deer or two.
I had some things to do and I come back and there is shit stirring going on. Not surprised. No reason to argue about Jon or Robert. It will all come out one way or the other. We are not privy to anything or anyone close to the situation. After once being a fan and following Kate Gosselin for years, I believe every word of how bad she is. Now there is proof. It's not a he said/she said.
THE REAL SCANDAL here is TLC continuing filming knowing how screwed up the family was just for $$$. It is appalling.
Bottom line, either people were scared off, paid off, or indifferent about how disfunctional Jon and Kate's marriage and personalities were.
Dwindle said... 60
Remona Blue said... 179
In MY opinion, Jon removing himself from the household could very well be his effort to reduce Kate's anger at him, therefore an effort to reduce Kate's abuse of the children
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not defending Jon. Right now I am livid with him, with the nannies, with TLC, with all of them.
But I agree with Remona. An abuser will constantly say "You made me do it. You upset me. Look what you made me do." It is POSSIBLE that Jon was so victimized he believed he was responsible for Kate's abuse toward the children.
----------------
Heck, look at the note Hoffman posted. She made it crystal clear Jon was responsible for making her happy and if she was happy they'd ALL be happy. If she was unhappy, misery would rain down.
You don't remember how the child flinched in fear? REALLY?
I was physically abused by my mother. She beat all her children and we usually didn't see it coming. If she raised her arms to yawn or reach for something, we'd all flinch. We were very used to getting smacked at any time. I recognized that same flinch when I watched the Walk in the Woods episode.
Jon and Kate both agree with spanking and they both have done this in anger. I completely agree with the person who says Jon never should have left them with Kate. He knew what she was capable of.
Jumping In said... 50
''........Most kids of abuse are Academy Award worthy actors, we all live to keep the secret.....''
~~~~~~~~
That reminds me of what I've come to believe...''We're only as sick as our secrets''. The secrets are out, and all I can do is believe to the depth of my soul that now the secrets are out, the Gosselin children have less to worry about exposing those secrets!
Thanks to those who are accepting of my opinion even if it differs from their own, and thanks to those who have agreed with my opinion.
It's heartbreaking to read the stories of abuse that have been shared here today. Every child deserves to be cherished and protected and it's so heartbreaking that so many are not.
Kate has classic signs of being an abuser. She may not physically abuse the children any longer, but she's most definitely inflicting emotional abuse on them.
I found this article 28 signs of an abuser ( http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2008/08/28-signs-of-abuser.html in case the clickable link doesn't work) and wow...how many of those fit Kate??
(Just for the record, I am not a sheeple and have never been a Kate fan. It is actually possible to dislike Jon AND Kate, you don't have to pick one or the other.)
If Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin's show or Sarah Palin's family had one thing to do with the cancellation of Kate+8, I will need to write her a letter of apology for thinking what I have thought. I would even hazard a "Way to go, Sarah!"
You could totally see Jon shutting down, by the minute, the last few episodes. By the last episode he was 100% shut down.
Wonder what that was about. Something triggered it for him. He'd been putting up with it all until then. So, why, all of a sudden had he had enough?
Something specific happened that caused him to shut down. IIRC, he alluded to it being something with the kids. IIRC, he said something about filming is bad for my kids, it's having a negative impact on them.
Agree that he has some responsibility for this, although perhaps he had NO voice when he lived in the house, and maybe no voice afterwards, either. Who can fight TLC and their big buck lawyers?
It would have helped his cause tremendously if he had NOT gone off and done stupid things, like getting connected with Haley Glassman, that idiot lawyer of his, Michael Lohan, et al.
I can't say that I understand that stuff. It's like he went crazy for a number of months.
It's weird....it's like he gets his act together for a while, and you have hope for him, and then he goes and does yet another dumb thing.
I wonder if it's a 2 steps forward, 1 step backward kind of healing process for him.
I know Alexis flinched because he unexpectedly broke her stick. They were acting up and hitting each other with sticks while he wanted them to enjoy nature and see the deer. But I think it's a stretch that he intended to hit Alexis. I would have done that too, for safety- the sticks were too big anyway-, and I never spanked my children.
Not saying Jon never spanked or hit but I didn't see anything here.
Dwindle said ... 67
Sheeple responses:
@Kate, where did you get the wooden spoon? do you have a link?
*****
Thank you, Dwindle, for making me laugh. I needed that on this horrible day.
Someone said the kids didn't have school today. Let's all hope Jon has custody this week. It would be better for everyone considering today's news.
I wonder when she will start tweeting again? or EVER? she might go private after this, but who would want to tweet this momster??
Kate must be following her twitter very closely to see what people are saying. Matt Dillon tweeted the video of the fashion show(the one we all saw 2 weeks ago), and 4 minutes after he did, Kate retweeted it.
Now she'll sit back and wait for all the oohs and aahs from her adoring fans.
I wonder if Cheryl Young(Kate's lawyer) is preparing a response to the ROL article. She was very quick to respond to the CS article about Jon.
Forgive me but 5 yrs ago I reported kate.I did not see for myself the actual abuse but I did see bruised & beaten children.When I questioned each one, I was told Mommy hit me. We who manage
To see Mommy or Daddy Correct the children's statement then issued a call.But we hoped she got help.How could we know if anything else we could have done? No on from state or local
Talked to us?
Sorry too late
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkSGszwwIN8
Watch at 3:45 or so..
Actually, the whole thing is shameful. The kids are crying, Jon's calling them babies, telling his son to "walk like a man"...he has no clue how to make it fun for the kids and they are miserable.
Neither parent is going to be up for any awards.
TLC stinks said... 71
I had some things to do and I come back and there is shit stirring going on. Not surprised. No reason to argue about Jon or Robert.
***********
Having a difference of opinion is not the definition of shit-stirring.
Mel said... 65
''I believe that Kate's abuse of the children was a factor in the cancellation of the show as well since TLC had to be aware of it and was concerned about liability.
Wonder if the liability side is where Sarah Palin had some influence.''
~~~~~~~~~~
Now I'm wondering if that little blurb I read somewhere about Kate blaming Sarah Palin for having her show cancelled could be on the nose.
Man...I can't seem to shut up today. I need to just walk away from the computer, but don't have the will power to do it!!
I spanked my kids when they are small. (I now regret that) It was done in a controlled manner with explanation before and a hug afterward.
My kids never flinched when I raised my hands near them. That is a learned response. The whole walk in the woods was a stupid idea.Jon had a hat on, the kids had bare heads. He walked ahead and not WITH them. He wouldn't walk at a pace that made sense for little kids.
I'm speechless at today's relevations like many of you are. I wasn't expecting this.
I acted at my own peril and Governed myself accordingly today, while alternately flipping between a review for a social studies test and 15 mins. I cannot believe Kate kept a journal that included entries about abusing her own babies. I am heartbroken. And the sheeple are calling Kate's own words lies, which is not surprising.
I agree with everyone that we must maintain our cool and continue to discuss our differences civily. It doesn't get much worse than this for the sheeple and they are in uber-attack mode. They will be deflecting and shit stirring for awhile.
We don't know what interventions Jon and Robert have taken in the past. To those of us who have never had to share custody, please don't jump to assumptions of shoulda, coulda.... Thankfully I've never been in this situation, but I know soo many people who are. I have literally felt their pain. When you have to answer to a judge and your child's other parent, all the things we think should have happened and should be so easy, are not that cut & dry.
I've often been tough on Jon and by no means do I think he's an innocent through this. But I have faith there was, and is, alot more protections in place for the kids than we will ever know about. The man just got 50/50 custody. As Admin has said, it's best for him to walk softly and carry a big stick, stay on the good side of the judge and gather small modifications here & there. Not go crazy and try to go for extremes which puts Kate on the defensive. Thankfully, the 8 aren't helpless babies anymore. They have any number of people to speak to throughout their day. I agree with Patience who said Kate is probably toeing the line, knowing that the kids will talk. They will also be old enough soon to decide whom they would like to live with.
I'm horrified by what these kids endured as babies. But I'm comforted knowing that they are now able to advocate for themselves and each other.
Two Parents- both to blame said... 83
Agree with you on these counts!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remona Blue said... 85
Ditto- I keep waiting for something to...happen re: this whole horrible situation. I also have to remind myself fake stories are going to surface in both camps ( or 3 camps?)
Anonymous...82, it is NOT too late. Please, whoever you are, call the local authorities if you live in her area or the closest authority. It may be too late if others continue to keep things quiet. Do you really want to keep this secret inside of you?
Yes, Alexis flinched. He snapped the stick and hurled it. She had a fear of being in trouble.
But he did not hit her. Who knows what would have happened if the cameras were not there, but the fact remains, he did not hit her. She was used to being hit when an adult was angry, but he did not hit her. As far as I know we only have one instance of Jon actually laying a hand on one of his kids, and it had something to do with Alexis' (or Leah's) hand and Purell.
Anonymous said... 84
TLC stinks said... 71
I had some things to do and I come back and there is shit stirring going on. Not surprised. No reason to argue about Jon or Robert.
***********
Having a difference of opinion is not the definition of shit-stirring.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Then use a name.
"I'm horrified by what these kids endured as babies. But I'm comforted knowing that they are now able to advocate for themselves and each other."
What are you basing this on? Kids raised in an abusive environment don't even realize it's not normal.They quickly develop an "every man for himself" survival instinct. They don't advocate for each other; they do their best to stay out of the radar and avoid pain.
I am now in my 40's and I sadly remember hearing my brother cry from the next room after my mother beat him for wetting the bed. I never thought to 'advocate' for him when I was a child.
TLC stinks said... 92
Then use a name.
*****************
What's the point? Bubbles is using a name and that hasn't stopped her from taking crap from the likes of you.
We're all kind of in shock, it seems, today, and emotions are raw and running high. Getting this kind of verification for what most of us knew was happening is something a lot of us never expected to see.
It takes extra effort to keep interactions civil under these circumstances. Sensitivities are bound to run high.
Those of you who have shared your abuse background, thank you for reminding others that abuse is real, and happens in all kinds of families.
For those of you who have broken the cycle, wow, just wow. What a fantastic legacy to give your children, and their children, all the way down the line. Huge kudos to you for succeeding at something phenomenally difficult, and incredibly important.
Yes, Alexis flinched. He snapped the stick and hurled it. She had a fear of being in trouble.
But he did not hit her. Who knows what would have happened if the cameras were not there, but the fact remains, he did not hit her. She was used to being hit when an adult was angry, but he did not hit her. As far as I know we only have one instance of Jon actually laying a hand on one of his kids, and it had something to do with Alexis' (or Leah's) hand and Purell.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I never said he hit her.
I had a gut feeling that this would be one of RH's reveals, that the children were/are abused physically. Kate needs some serious help, but unfortunately, being a narcissist, she will not seek it because she will not admit her abusiveness to others. I know she did write it in her journal, thinking that no one else would ever see it. Narcissists will never admit they are in the wrong, they always find someone else to blame things on, even if proven evidence is available.
All I can say is I pray and hope that these children will be safe from any harm and that the right authorities will take a stance and do something to protect them from their own mother.
SeeSaw said... 55
Patience - 38
Very, very well said. We all need to follow that advice. Well, *I* need to follow the advice, not speaking for the rest of the board.
Looking at you Dwindle :)
*********************
Dont know what it is yet coz I am reading backwards, but I'll agree.But only for myself! I am not agreeing for anyone else without specific Agreeance Power of Attorney!
Two Parents- both to blame said... 93
I am now in my 40's and I sadly remember hearing my brother cry from the next room after my mother beat him for wetting the bed. I never thought to 'advocate' for him when I was a child.
====
The victim I know sat on the floor furnace vent all night hoping that his pjs would dry before morning came. He said he knew he would be beaten anyway for the wet bed, but not before she (his step-mother) got up. It was less severe than in the middle of the night.
It is mind boggling how this all got turned around on Jon. Knowing how some of the media tend to review commentary here, I'm sure some of those outlets will spin Kate's abuse this way as well. Once again she'll come out just fine.
What a shame. It's repulsive to read the narrow-sighted postings here because of this.
Why are Anonymous posts going through anyway?
Two Parents- both to blame said... 93
''........What are you basing this on? Kids raised in an abusive environment don't even realize it's not normal.They quickly develop an "every man for himself" survival instinct. They don't advocate for each other; they do their best to stay out of the radar and avoid pain.
I am now in my 40's and I sadly remember hearing my brother cry from the next room after my mother beat him for wetting the bed. I never thought to 'advocate' for him when I was a child.''
~~~~~~~~
Abused children survive in any way they can. In your case, you didn't 'advocate' for your brother, because that was your way to survive. In my case, we DID band together, attempt to protect each other in any way we could. My sister and I woke very early every morning in order to put dry sheets on my brother's bed and get him into dry clothes so he wouldn't be beaten. We all survived the best we could.
Now I'm going to REALLY try to not say anything else till that second shoe drops!
Kate's possible next moves:
Suddenly reconcile with her family.
Trot off to a psych hospital and call it 'rehab' for a 'rest'. Poor thing.
Work on her next book about how she was abused as a child and this is all her parents' fault.
Work on an expose about Jon smoked weed in his 20s and couldnt satisfy her in bed and wouldnt clean the gutters on command so this is all HIS fault.
Work on her next book about how TLC led her into the serpent's den but she has refound Jesus and is all better now.
Get her hair bleached and stringed for her upcoming media tour to deny, dab eyes, deny, dab eyes, hold hands with the interviewer, and deny some more.
Blame the media for putting a damper on her dating show and taking milk - er um - bread out of her babies mouths.
Anonymous, The point in using a name is that we can respond directly to your comment rather than other anonymous posters. You are rude . I have said NOTHING to Bubbles. USE A NAME or Admin will delete you. You APPARENTLY are NOT a regular poster here.
Thank you to the posters who are sharing their own painful stories about growing up with abuse, and their efforts to break that vicious cycle. You lifted my spirits today. I am so glad to hear of your determination to overcome and make a better life not only for yourself, but for your children.
wayward said... 88
I'm horrified by what these kids endured as babies. But I'm comforted knowing that they are now able to advocate for themselves and each other.
_______________
I hope they do advocate for each other. A lot of abusive parents have a way of pitting siblings against one another. A nonphysical way to inflict long-lasting pain.
Dwindle - And today she baked cookies for the school bake sale, no less. How dare these nasty things be said about such a loving mother?
SO please, don't assume what you don't know and don't live. Just don't. From someone who has to sit with paranoia every other weekend in fear of what my step son who I have raised since age 4 (16 now) and watch my husbands anguish at having to give his son over to this woman not knowing (or knowing) what he will endure over the next 48 hours, please don't sit in judgment when you have absolutely no idea what Jon or anyone else has tried to do for those kids.
--------------------------------
Thank you for sharing your own painful story of having to deal with an abusive parent -- and the reality of what CPS does AND DOES NOT DO. It seems to me that only in the most serious of abuse cases, do they actually remove the child from the home and/or take away visitation rights. I'm not sure why it has to be "life in danger" before they act.
Two parents:
"Remember the "Walk in the Woods" episode? Jon clearly showed that he will hit the kids in anger." : This is what you said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Dutch Wonderland & Purell. Mady was crying and sitting in the tups' stroller. Jon was with her. Cut to Mady rubbing her chest in pain as if she had been pinched.Jon grabbed her arm to talk with her in private. Then a tup girl ( L or A) was licking Purell from her hand. Kate told her she would die from doing that. One girl was also forced roughly into the stroller and looked like someone had pinched her! Pinching must be a public form of discipline.
There is a very good reason that Admin has used clips from Joan Crawford, Mommie Dearest.
She is a Monster. Now it shall all come out in black and white.
I wonder when and what the View ladies will have to say about this. Whoopie shall have her day, she always had Kates number.
They don't advocate for each other; they do their best to stay out of the radar and avoid pain.
Sometimes this is true. Especially when they're around the same age, as in the sextuplet's case. Or perhaps Cara's. That would certainly explain how she seemed to withdraw into herself so much there towards the end. And it would also explain her seeming volatility towards Clay.
---------------
However, when one or more of the siblings is older, you often see the older ones trying to protect the younger ones. As we saw Mady trying to do.
Often you'll see in the news a teenager severely hurting (or even killing) an abusive parent, because he/she was trying to protect the younger child. Or the mother.
In my case, we DID band together, attempt to protect each other in any way we could.
That's how it was in my family. People don't understand why us siblings are so close as adults. And it *is* a little abnormal. But if they would stop to think about it, they would know why we're so close.
I do think some of the blame Jon sentiments are meant to deflect but I also think for most people it's a sincere human need to blame someone, anyone. I think there's been some good examples and explanations here of cases similar to this in which however much people wanted to do something, none of it worked. No one could stop Kate in any other area of her life, I see not one shred of evidence anything was different when it came to this. Also makes you wonder if she never ended moving from pa because of their lax child labor and abuse laws. If she moved out it LA there might be a lot more options for her. But she never did. Hmmm.
Interesting new post by Preesi. Does she think or know if Robert got a hold of the computer because Kate replaced it and threw it out? It would be something if Robert was rummaging around in her trash. Hopefully he will enlighten everyone how he got the journals.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
The Supreme Court Case California v. Greenwood has established that by discarding possessions, private citizens of the US relinquish their rights to the property, and have no common law expectation of privacy regarding them.
Many in the community turned a blind eye to the acts that Jerry Sandusky was committing. I believe that many just couldn't imagine that someone as well-known could do such a thing or else people were afraid to speak out against such a powerful person. Have we not learned?
I wonder if RH can sue Kate is she says that he is lying.
I think for at least a little while, Rule #1 ought to be followed. Anyone who uses Anonymous as their name should have their posts sent to the trash bin and not posted. That's the sure fire way to get these anonymous posters to at least choose a name. I'm not "blue" but I am a regular poster here and I use the same name each time.
New post at Gosselin Book!
In my case, we DID band together, attempt to protect each other in any way we could.
Sorry to be so vocal today....this is hard. It's bringing back a lot of memories. You know, those ones Kate always wants to make for her kids.
Here I am, 60+ years old, and I STILL feel responsible for my younger siblings. I still feel like I'm responsible for what happens to them, and they're adults! I wonder if I'll ever get over that feeling. Probably not.
I wonder if Mady will ever get over that feeling of needing to protect the younger kids. Maybe. If she gets the help she needs now, while she's still young.
I hope I am wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this terrible revelation will not result in a huge outcry against Kate in the media. It would make a lot of those TV networks, and radio stations, and magazines, and talk-shows who served up softball questions and presented Kate as a victim look really stupid.
I certainly can't see Barbara Walters, who crowned Kate one of her "Most Fascinating People," voluntarily showing off the egg all over her face. I highly doubt that Nancy Grace, miss self-appointed champion of children, will admit she was fooled. I foresee a whole lot of ignoring going on.
Boy, do I hope I am wrong about this.
I have about 50 posts to catch up on, so if this is a repeat, please forgive. I checked in on the 2 other blogs I read/post on occasionally, GWOP and Werny's. NO mention of this on Werny's at all. GWOP has a couple of posts about it, sort of an "oh well, what else is new" attitude. We seem to be the only ones who are up in arms for the kids. Admin -- if this is considered blog on blog, sorry and please delete if you think it's necessary.
I am a long time reader first time poster. Not to defend Kate in ANY way but does anyone remember the episode where the family went to either the Ronald McDonald house or Jon and Kate's first apartment? I believe it was Mady who refused to eat her cereal and Kate told Jon. Jon took Mady (?) to a bedroom and we the audience could hear Mady crying. They then emerged from the bedroom and Jon told Kate "she would now eat her cereal". I can guarantee Jon "spanked"/"disciplined" Mady. BOTH Jon and Kate are disgusting imo.
I think we'll get a good nite/thaxs 4 ur support tweet from Kate and that's it.
Jon is not a saint said... 195
When has it ever been seen anywhere that those eight children ran smiling into Kates open arms anywhere. When Jon picked them up at the bus stop, OH Yeah, happy uninhibited joy from the children towards their father.
Kate, we see rounded shoulders, heads down, waiting for the wooden spoon. What a great childhood they will remember from her. Long hours on planes, train and automobiles. Of course Mommy was in first class and they were stuck with Nannies.
Jon, they will remember a father with uncondtional Love.
The excuse for a Mother, conditional love from every direction.
That new RH post is telling.
Kate has used everything in that email/memo written by TLC. 'the kids are just playing going about their daily lives' 'memories' 'just like taping your own family' 'allows us to be home with our kids' Blech! Should have known she couldn't come up with an original thought on her own!
You know Reader Lady, this is old news but this time there is proof. I think it will take a few days for more of Robert's relevations to filter out before there is more outrage. It has been frustrating over the years to read accounts of Kate's behavior and nothing come of it. Let's hope Robert can nail down everything and some real people come forward instead of those past anonymous sources. I would feel better if it wasn't Star magazine or Radar. I would hate to think she is still Teflon Kate.
Call me crazy . . . I wonder about this too.
Marie
By the way, I am using anonymous Marie because there is already a Marie.
Oooofa. Get a load of the photo Robert included with the new post...
Same feeling, Call Me Crazy. I
I've always thought a better response to Paul Petersen would be instead of denying these kids are anything like child actors, support it instead. Say they support any law which seeks to safeguard children on sets. Of course OUR kids' have always been fully protected by us but we can't guarantee another network would be as committed as we are to safety. I actually would have respected them for that.
New post at Gosselinbook with excerpts regarding spin against Paul Peterson.
Can you imagine if Sarah Palin were a source? Lol. There's no way she is but Kate would just implode.
Lee #95-thanks for your kind words, no one ever told me anything like that before. I guess it really is a legacy, passed down to future generations. I guess I really did do something right.
RH post - My personal favorite line
'made it possible for J&K to actually raise their children'
Really?! I thought volunteers and nannies did that.
I know a lot of people who 'actually raised their children' without the help of a 'docuseries.'
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/
1.Can you say yikes?
2.Kate had tons of things done to her face.
3. She loves gum so much why not tweet it or try to grift it?
Sweet Tart said... 107
Thank you for sharing your own painful story of having to deal with an abusive parent -- and the reality of what CPS does AND DOES NOT DO. It seems to me that only in the most serious of abuse cases, do they actually remove the child from the home and/or take away visitation rights. I'm not sure why it has to be "life in danger" before they act.
_______________________________
Sweet Tart - I so wish CPS agencies always did the right thing, but tragically, this is not the case. Case overload, bureaucracy, laziness and sometimes outright incompetence can be blamed for children remaining at risk. There have been several cases in Philadelphia where CPS failed to remove children in serious cases of abuse, and the children ended up dead. It is all too horrible.
Two Parents- both to blame said... 96
Yes, Alexis flinched. He snapped the stick and hurled it. She had a fear of being in trouble.
But he did not hit her. Who knows what would have happened if the cameras were not there, but the fact remains, he did not hit her. She was used to being hit when an adult was angry, but he did not hit her. As far as I know we only have one instance of Jon actually laying a hand on one of his kids, and it had something to do with Alexis' (or Leah's) hand and Purell.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I never said he hit her.
&&&&&&
Excuse me, yes you did:
Two Parents- both to blame said... 52
Remember the "Walk in the Woods" episode? Jon clearly showed that he will hit the kids in anger.
Kate hit those kids. Jon hit those kids. They both still do that. They have both hit them in anger. Kate sounds like she was the worse of the two parents, but Jon is far from innocent.
Two Parents- both to blame said... 93
"I'm horrified by what these kids endured as babies. But I'm comforted knowing that they are now able to advocate for themselves and each other."
What are you basing this on? Kids raised in an abusive environment don't even realize it's not normal.They quickly develop an "every man for himself" survival instinct. They don't advocate for each other; they do their best to stay out of the radar and avoid pain.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Read it again. I said "they are able." key word being "able." Meaning, these are not helpless, not yet speaking babies trapped in a house with their gestational carrier all day.
They are "able" or have the ability, if you will, to speak to someone about maltreatment during the course of their school day, or to their father. They are "able" to back each other's stories up. Or not. But at least they have that ability.
"CHILDREN LEARN WHAT THEY LIVE"
Kate hit the children every day of their lives for years and years. And what did we see with our own eyes. The kids hitting each other A LOT. And we know that Collin and Alexis were the hardest of hers to handle. Alexis was the wild child per her parents. And Collin was the stubborn one per their parents.
Well, look what happened in kindergarten during their first few months. Alexis and Collin were hitting, and bullying everyone around them.
Well, folks, no surprise because that is what Kate did to them every day of their life probably until kindergarten.
Yes, all kids may hit but we saw all the time not just a few times.
There is nothing to indicate Jon ever hit these kids. Taking a kid into the bathroom and then returning and saying ok they'll eat now doesn't mean she was hit. There are a dozen different ways to get a kid to do something. Every parent gets frustrated and upset but not every parent hits as a result of that. Unless something more concrete is presented I think it's pretty unfair to make that accusation against anyone else.
chefsummer said... 133
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/
1.Can you say yikes?
2.Kate had tons of things done to her face.
3. She loves gum so much why not tweet it or try to grift it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know, right? That picture of her is PERFECT for a halloween mask.
Word up to my East Coast friends... if you haven't had dinner yet DO NOT look at that picture of Khate, unless you actually want to lose your appetite.
I have something to say: JON: we know you read here, Why did you let the divorce go through, there was noone left in the house to protect the kids. She was out of control when she was married to you, so why did you run away and not stay and fight for your kids and protect them. She is the kind of woman noone could control she is so strong willed, but when you were there the kids were somewhat protected.
Kate's "MEDIA TRAINER" Steve Gray http://www.rockfordgray.com/Steve-Gray.html. We now have a face of someone who is responsible for the media mess that Kate is.
Check out the website: near the bottom they have a little card you can order "Crisis Tip Card" "12 steps to improve your reputation."
Another thought came to me. And that is it is terrible to LABEL your children with negative terms. Wildchild and Stubborn are negative labels. And we know that the tups watched over and over and over all of the J&K shows. And they heard these labels said in their parents voice during the intro that they were stubborn and wild.
Do you think that maybe they conformed their behavior to live up to these labels?
No surprise here. Kate doesn't feel good about herself, never has. She is a frustrated mother of 8 and of course she could never handle them. Jon doesn't get a pass from me either.
The signs were all there. Kids spent too much time in their cribs, Mom over the top about stains on the clothes, "gum gate", photos of potty time and it's contents, on and on. Total trainwreck and in very poor taste to say the least. Kate cared more about what TLC and the viewers thought they saw than what was really going on in their home. Perception and money was top priority. All for the kids, I think not. Like I said, "No surprise here."
Robert has a new post up! All that shit K8 used to spew came right from her PR team! http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/
Mel 117....
I left home at 17 because I just grew weary of being the only parent in the house. My father had died, so the physical abuse ended, but my mother was in and out of bad relationships, and it just became too much. My 3 siblings remained, my only sister was 13, the 2 boys were older.
Many years later, my sister and I talked about the dysfunction of our family and she said she couldn't believe I had the guts to leave at such a young age, get on a bus and move to a big city where I knew no-one. I took her compliment, then she said, "but you left me there".
Like Mel, I am in my 60's and still feel the guilt of abandoning her to save myself.
I knew her conference call the other day was about the book coming out! LOLOL
And just cuz I feel like snarking...what kind of shady low class site still has their wordpress sample page http://rockfordgrayblog.com/?page_id=2 linked on their top menu bar of their blog? I have designed templates for wordpress sites before so I know what I'm talking about. Who the h*ll is their webmaster? What a novice thing to do and to think the site's been like that since 2007.
She's an amateur working with cheap amateurs. Gift of Gab my right butt cheek. These advisers had no idea how to help her and were/are blowing smoke up her backside. I wonder if they are still advising her. (I'd like to think no but I can't help but believe she's blowing the kids' money on crap like this just to protect image and not allow the truth to get out.)
Hoosier Girl said... 132
RH post - My personal favorite line
'made it possible for J&K to actually raise their children'
Really?! I thought volunteers and nannies did that.
I know a lot of people who 'actually raised their children' without the help of a 'docuseries.'
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I know, I read that too! "...actually raise their children." As opposed to what? Turning them over to foster care?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that the horrible video we watched when Jon returned the kids to the gate was very shortly after they returned from their Alaskan trip. Does anyone else remember that? That could explain why they were not eager to go back to Kate and that house of horrors.
Re: the newest picture on gosselinbook. What in the world? Did she get hit with a water balloon? Or an egg white? Has she been squirted in her eyes or is she crying? I really can't tell. What an odd picture.
I have watched Kates behavior towards Colin for a very long time. She rages towards him.
Early on, before I tuned out of the mess on TV, I told my husband that she hated that child. I could see it.
I am so relieved to finally witness someone bringing her hellish behavior into the open with verifiable facts.
I too was subjected to an abusive Mother. I am 66 years old now. I vowed to NEVER hit my children. As a child I vowed to myself that I would never hurt a child of mine as my Mother did.
That is why I follow this. I would say, the abuse is now "almost" over for these kids.
Kate Gosselin is about to brought to her knees and rightly so. The rest is just details.
The Witch is quaking in hooker heels right now.
I think it was a no-brainer that her PR team was ready for everything on her behalf, but glad Robert has some verification of same.
TLC probably had word that this book was being written and it was going to be explosive. That may be the sole reason they dumped her ass. Her ratings were down but not terrible. And I bet after this book, TLC will not do any more updates with her again. And Kate knows it.
I have never posted here before, but like so many here, I am not a fan of Kate's. There is something I wanted to share that I found very insightful into the eternal question, "Who is the real Kate Gosselin?". Remember back in October 2009, Kate went on national television and cried Jon stole 230,000 dollars from her bank account and she was left with little more than 1,000 dollars to pay all her bills. Here's what I figured out. Jon said there were a total of 11 bank accounts she had. The 2 of importance were 1) the corporate account and 2) the housing and bills account. Both Jon and Kate's separate pay checks went into account 1. Per the separation agreement with judge orders, Jon and Kate were each supposed to put 7,500 dollars into the housing account each month. He did faithfully. 15 ,000 a month was for their children's expenses and bills, until the divorce was finalized. What Jon did was withdraw 22,000 dollars each week and put it in his own account because he thought that was his check. He did that every week for 2 months, August and September. Suddenly, she claimed that the last week in September, Jon went into it and took 230,000 dollars. Whaaattt?? If you do the math, he was told to put back 180,000, which he took with no malice, just a misunderstanding, that is 22,000 x 2 months!!!
There was always plenty of money for bills!! I think that is was no coincidence the timing. At that time, she just discovered no more Jon and Kate plus 8, she was losing her celebrity career and she needed America to feel sorry for her. How awful? Claiming Jon stole food out of the kids mouths, poor me, look what he does to me, see how horrible he is. The children will no doubt learn of this when they are older. Why did she have to hit below the belt? Why paint him as a horrible dad? Remember, she pulled the same act when Kate plus 8 got cancelled last year. She did the talk show circuit telling everyone how Jon accepts mediocre and she wants more and better. And how without her show she "shudders to think" how she will be able to get by and provide for her children. It's the same old song. Her behavior makes me ill!
You know, Preesi may be onto something. Somehow Robert go ahold of Kate's computer and apparently she kept all her emails. Either someone made a copy of her hard drive or Kate threw out the old computer and did not remove the hard drive.
New entry http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/
AuntieAnn said... 106
Dwindle - And today she baked cookies for the school bake sale, no less. How dare these nasty things be said about such a loving mother?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Poor misunderstood Katie Irene. Let's send gift cards. Milo might have a little left over from her Social Security check this month, she was going to get new underwear, but poor Katie needs help instead.
And if she behaved that way to Collin, what about Joel? We know who her least favorite icky boy was- he certainly was emotionally abused.
Few cared that Kate posted Mady's legs on twitter. I have a bad feeling that these abuse charges will be passed over and soon forgotten as well.
I agree, fidosmommy. In all the years I watched I never saw Jon raise his hand to those kids on TV.
Allison said... 155 I remember that and I remember doing the math at the time. Jon also explained it in some interview. Everyone overlooked it though and eventually forgot about it. Thanks for bringing it up.
Regarding Mr. Hoffman's latest post - we now know that not only was the "show" scripted, the response to any form of criticism was scripted as well.
bm
I am probably going to repeat myself here, but I am just so sick about this. Those poor diapered babies, locked for hours and hours in cribs and then in comes The Mother for the daily beating. This one messed her diaper, that one threw his only toy on the floor.
The physical pain, the screaming, the terror, the fear, more physical pain out of nowhere, no idea how to make the pain stop, all alone, so afraid, no one to look to, no one to comfort them, more pain, more screaming from all around.
Little toddler butts hurt and burn, thighs burn, hands burn and sting, arms sting, ouchie ouchie ouchie mommy daddy mommy stop stop stop. Owie my hair! owie my ear! owww my face!!! I'm sorry I fell down, I'm sorry I dropped my toy, I'm sorry my sippy cup spilled, I'm sorry I made poo I dont know how to stop it, I try to stop my poo and it hurts. I'm sorry I touched... something. owie owie owie... who can make it stop, who can help me... so scared... owie I hurt I hurt.
That is why they screamed in terror when Jon took them "home". They had been away from The Mother and had touched things, ate things, done things with Daddy that upset The Mother. There were going to be beatings for being disloyal to The Mother and they knew it. They KNEW it.
I'm confused. That's what a rumspringing will do to you. If the sheeple are blaming Jon for all of this and not reporting her for it, are they then saying that Kate has abused the kids, but it's not her fault because he drove her to it? Are they admitting that she may be guilty of abuse?
Purple Skies said... 100
It is mind boggling how this all got turned around on Jon. Knowing how some of the media tend to review commentary here, I'm sure some of those outlets will spin Kate's abuse this way as well. Once again she'll come out just fine.
What a shame. It's repulsive to read the narrow-sighted postings here because of this.
*************
You mean narrow-sighted postings such as yours? Ones in which someone can't have an opinion that differs without being having it labeled "repulsive?"
I wonder if Bullyville, the company that Kate says she works with, knows about this. Anyone know who to contact them.
O.K. I know I will blasted for this but: Who cares what 7 or less crazy sheeple think about this. I have read their tweeter feeds and they are truly nuts. I don't respect or care about them in the least. And the media won't either.
It's getting turned around to Jon because he could have tried to protect them. Don't you understand Kate was out of control, no one could control her and she was protected by so many people that covered up the abuse. Jon could have tried to protect his children by taking custody of them or by staying in the marriage. Kate could not be stopped, but he could have tried to tamper her rages by being there. It's not about blaming Jon and turning it around on Jon. He is their father, they are 1/2 his. SHE COULDN'T BE STOPPED BY ANYONE, but Jon being there would have made her control herself somewhat.
I just read the article @ ROL. Many, many of the comments are "kids are spoiled & need more spankings", "how else is she to keep order in her house", "her 15 minutes are up- who cares?" Aparhy and stupidity may give her yet another free pass in the court of public opinion.
I never believed that TLC canceled Kate's show due to low ratings.
Now I wonder if they canceled it to play cya and put some distance between filming and the time this book came out. At the time I thought they had stopped filming because Jon wouldn't give his permission, but now I'm not sure.
These poor children had a dad who was too passive/scared/whatever to protect them (with anger issues of his own) and a mother who is and out and out monster.
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe TLC and the filming IS the best thing that happened for these children? Had the cameras not been around and the money been tight, I can see a far worse situation. This is the first time I've ever thought of it this way, and I could be entirely wrong.
It would be nice of Paul Petersen or someone with a 'voice' would weigh in on this...Sue Buddy- an article?
Charlotte the problem is you want Jon to have done things he legally cannot do. You said Jon could have stayed in the marriage. In fact Kate filed for divorce. It is not the olden days where you can refuse to agree to a divorce. If Kate wanted a divorce she was getting it, it makes no difference how badly her husband may not want it.
Second you say Jon could have protected his children by taking custody. That also isn't true. A judge decides custody when there is a dispute, and Jon could not do anything without a judge agreeing to it. Going for custody could have made things even worse because it could have backfired.
A lot of people on here today claiming to know or have seen things...where have they been hiding and why? I would say to ignore them. Only verified info should be expressed or opinions that don't claim inside sources. You can't say yes, Jon hits the children if he hasn't been seen to, because he got angry and broke a stick for a good reason.
Regarding the spin, the only hope I see in this is that she does not have TLC to back her up any longer.
Marie
No No there is not one single second of footage that shows Jon hitting these kids. If you want to be verified as an insider email me, otherwise please don't make such accusations here.
Come on, people. You know the rules. Only speculation and accusations against KATE. Jon is a saint. Any wrong he's done in the past is KATE'S fault. Surely you know this by now.
The above is just snark. Is snarking on other posters and Jon acceptable or can we only snark on Kate and her teeth and her toe and her ankles and her no waist, etc?
Bubbles said... 86
I have been a reader and commenter here for years. It is upsetting how rudely I get treated for voicing my opinion regarding Jon.
---------
I am not caught up on all of the comments, but I want to chime in my support for your statement. I wish I could go into denial and pin my hopes on the fantasy that those poor children has at least one semi-functioning parent, but the reality is just too glaring.
In light of the discoveries today, the level of Jon's immaturity in abandoning his children into the hands of an abusive succubus is breathtaking. The idea that Jon had the children's welfare as his highest priority makes for a terrific fairy tale. Exactly how do people reconcile that fantasy with the facts?
How do 23 year old girlfriends, endorsement deals, body tattoos, pierced ears and living it up in a NYC apartment --while his children were being beaten and terrorized by that monster--fit into Jon as the behind-the-scenes hero narrative?
Look at the outrage people feel fo Kate, for things that happened years ago? Don't tell me to look the other way on Jon's arrested development because he finally manned up to his responsibility. His childish attempt to recoup his 20s endangered his children and he should be held accountable. His recent forays into the public eye--his public declaration of love for his latest girlfriend and public statements about child support speaks volumes.
I have to hand it to the locals that were on to these two from the start--beginning with Dana Hoffman and including the earlier bloggers. In particular, I have a lot of admiration for the courage that Dana demonstrated in calling attention to that pair of grifters and the editor that censored her should be ashamed of himself.
If anything good can come out of this, I do believe that other children may be helped by this cautionary tale. I believe that the outrage expressed against Nadya was, in part, a result of the public's response to the the Gosselin greed.
Fame and fortune cost the G8 their precious childhoods and they will carry this forward into their adult lives and their own families. I sincerely pray that the generational abuse will stop with Kate and that every one of the children gets the professional help that they need.
My heart bleeds for the kids. In my heart, I was so hoping that I was wrong. But all the signs were there.
That picture looks like she is laughing and crying at the same time.
Former::: I'm one who you are talking about. I'm a regular here and I try to guard my words especially when it comes to what I know about the children. I have first hand experience of knowing how the kids are with Jon. I have not been verified by Admin (at least I don't think I have) because I don't feel its in the children's best interest to let the public know specifics about each child so I remain quietly on the side.
I've been around though, posting here and there about what I've witnessed, without being specific. I don't want to say too much other than what I've just told you.
Milo might have a little left over from her Social Security check this month, she was going to get new underwear,
************
"I thought she was saving up for a new thong from Victoria's Secret, so she could dress like Kate. Single White Female.
"Why did you let the divorce go through, there was noone left in the house to protect the kids. She was out of control when she was married to you, so why did you run away and not stay and fight for your kids and protect them. She is the kind of woman noone could control she is so strong willed, but when you were there the kids were somewhat protected."
**********
Unless we were there, which we were not, we don't know what he did or what he did not do to protect his kids. There may very well be documentation upon documentation regarding what went on through CPS and the courts regarding this. There was an excellent post upthread by "Mit" regarding the role of CPS and how frustrating it is to deal with them, using every legal means available.
I can't believe how I've been glued to this topic today.
I try to work, to get things done, but keep returning to this blog and checking for RH updates.
Anyone else share this problem?
I normally only check in about once a week and don't read the comments. Today I feel as obsessed as Milo or Shmecky!
I personally feel Jon has to take some responsibility for what happened. This abuse happened while he was living there also.
Marie
Yes Mit's post is an excellent example of how much may go on behind the scenes. Until we know who did what I don't know how anyone can say who didn't do enough. What about all the nannies? The one who gave the interview witnessed abuse. But unless I know for sure she did nothing I am certainly not going to assume she wasn't first in line at CPS too.
Moi #171..I was thinking the same thing. If Kate hadn't had the money to pay for help just imagine the carnage that could have ensued. Unfortunately, or fortunately, there were cameras around where Kate could primp and preen for the cameras. She was also making a butt-load of money. I hate to think of what could have happened to those kids. It would have been 8x worse.
Do people think Jon needed to physically abduct his children? That's what some of these posts sound like to me. Get them out of Kate's domain whatever it takes. Then Jon would have had the Family court judge and the Criminal court judge to deal with.
Bravo, ex-nurse!
You put it into words beautifully.
If anyone is on Twitter here, I hope you notify Anderson Cooper about what's been going down. He had Teresa Guidice on today and ripped her a new one for being a mean person. I would love to see him get a hold of Kate. He can't stand her. He asks hard questions and has had experience with Kate.
Snark Alert: "The above is just snark. Is snarking on other posters and Jon acceptable or can we only snark on Kate and her teeth and her toe and her ankles and her no waist, etc?"
________
What we have here is far more serious than snarking. This is a discussion about child abuse. If you can't see that, with the proof we have been handed by a man who took a lie detector test and a person who couldn't be stopped by Kate's high-powered attorneys, then it's time to wake up and smell the coffee...or get over to your own playground.
Drivebys right now aren't even amusing...more like pathetic.
Paige isn't defending her queen somthing must be wrong.
Marie, how many times has it been pointed out on this blog that spanking is not child abuse in PA and most other states? I know admin has tried to explain this over and over. Do you just not comprehend or do you not want to comprehend?
fidosmommy said... 186
Do people think Jon needed to physically abduct his children? That's what some of these posts sound like to me. Get them out of Kate's domain whatever it takes. Then Jon would have had the Family court judge and the Criminal court judge to deal with.
************************
Let's turn this around and you will understand.
What if Jon was the one abusing the children? Would it be okay if Kate did nothing? And then left the kids with Jon? Would you expect Kate to just stay there with the kids?
Marie
Admin, didn't you comment once that Jon went to court many, many times? Something like 25? I think that should tell us he was doing a lot that we don't know about.
I would love to see Nancy Grace get a hold of Kate and question her. 139
Not me. I want to see Anderson Cooper interview her
Hoffman could have tape from TLC of Kate beating the crap out of the kids with the spoon and picking them up by the hair and their anger
would be directed 100% at TLC for not stopping it instead of angry with Kate for doing it. 40
I respectfully disagree. They would be angry at TLC for taping it.
Another note about CPS. If they evaluate out several referrals and the same person keeps calling with the same accusations, next thing you know the caller is the one they are suspicious of. Happens all...the....time. The vast majority of CPS calls result in little more than a hi and goodbye visit from a social worker.
Paula said... 191
Marie, how many times has it been pointed out on this blog that spanking is not child abuse in PA and most other states? I know admin has tried to explain this over and over. Do you just not comprehend or do you not want to comprehend?
*************
Beating a child with a wooden spoon does not necessarily fall under the legal definition of spanking. Read PA law. It is open to interpretation and the administrator's interpretation is not the be all and end all, despite what her brown-nosing regulars would like others to believe.
Paula said... 191
Marie, how many times has it been pointed out on this blog that spanking is not child abuse in PA and most other states? I know admin has tried to explain this over and over. Do you just not comprehend or do you not want to comprehend?
****************
I don't appreciate the tone, but I will answer. I believe it is abuse, even if Pennsylvania law doesn't and obviously you and the other people on this blog do also or you wouldn't be so up in arms about it. Right? Admin even says it is abuse in her post. The title of this blog post is "Kate's secret journals detail abuses toward children"
Marie
While there is enough blame to go around, the majority should be focused on Kate. I'm sure Jon's done everything he could to help his kids. He was up against Kate, TLC, the courts who typically favor the mother, etc. He also had to build a new life for himself to be able to get more time with kids. Has he done everything perfectly? No. But I do believe he does have his kids best interests at heart. He is the only one who fought to stop filming.
Marie you're not getting it. No it's not okay if Kate does nothing. No it's not okay if Jon does nothing. But where is your proof Jon did nothing?. All interactions with CPS are strictly confidential. We have only been privy to a small slice of their lives. We don't know what was done.
Check out this Before and After of Kate. Click Here
Hopefully the link works for you all. You can't tell me she didn't have work done on her face.
chefsummer said... 190
Paige isn't defending her queen somthing must be wrong.
__________________________________________
Actually she is but she's doing a piss poor job of it. She was tweeting in hiding for a while (not putting @Kate's name on tweets) but got chided for not having Kate's back. LOL So she came out but can't hold her own.
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