"They are proud, strong people--patient, uncomplaining, intelligent. They want first of all to work, to have a home for their families, to educate their children." ~Sanora Babb, social worker
Discuss PBS’s The Dust Bowl, airing November 18th and 19th. Check local listings. Pre-order on DVD/Blu-ray here.
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| Sanora Babb and her boss, Tom Collins, help hang laundry at a farmers' camp |
Out of the dust of this Great Depression emerged some independent, bright, hard-working career women. Women out in the field rolling up their sleeves trying to help when careers just weren't fashionable. Two such working women were Sanora Babb, a social worker (though later well known as a writer), and Dorothea Lange, a photographer for the state of California. The Dust Bowl will profile these two women tonight.
Sanora Babb didn't attend school until she was eleven years old, but graduated valedictorian of her class. During the Dust Bowl, she took a job with the Farm Security Administration, and in addition to helping set up migrant camps, traveled around to families providing assistance and resources for food, medical assistance, housing and education. She was just 30 years old when she took the job. Sanora Babb's notes on what she experienced were borrowed by John Steinbeck for his great novel The Grapes of Wrath
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Dorothea Lange also worked for the government, hired by California to photograph the hardships of the Dust Bowl. Her famous Migrant Mother photograph has come to epitomize the Great Depression. Neither Lange nor the family pictured was paid for the photo, as it belonged to the state of California.
248 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 248 of 248 Newer› Newest»ZeldaZee said... 197
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I like the way you think, and I have known a few others that have felt the same. I worked with a counselor who was a Rabbi once and she very quickly took the shifts on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day etc. This in turn makes the rest of us happy to take shifts for HER for her spiritual celebrations.
And no pig out for you this week? I guess green bean casserole and cranberry sauce only goes so far! Hehe.
Glad you're here.
How was part 2? Grr PST!
@Kateplusmy8: Yep. You're reading right... I'm going to sleep, early! I need fuel for the end of the week turkey celebrations...GN all!
@Kateplusmy8: @MiloandJack it is for big girls, but tired mommy is going to dance with my pillow! #earlytobed
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So the "big girls" are watching DWTS and Kate is going to bed early so she can "fuel up" for "turkey celebrations" at the end of the week. Twitter is very quiet because the only ones there are Kate's rabid fans. Based on her tweets this morning I really believe that yet another door has been slammed in her face and I'm wondering if it's got her a bit depressed.
Anonymous said,
... You don't have to agree with me, but my opinion on the issue is as valid as yours...
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Yes, it is, and I understand what you are saying. What it may not be desirable for some to work on a holiday, it may actually be a benefit for others to work on those days because they don't mind and can use the money.
I don't, however, understand another poster's twenty questions. That seemed just a bit, well, unnecessary.
Thank you for your kind welcome, Dwindle. You're always a treat to read.
And no pig out for you this week? I guess green bean casserole and cranberry sauce only goes so far! Hehe.
Even when I did eat meat I never was into Thanksgiving cuisine. That was probably because we spent each Thanksgiving at my grandparents house and my grandmother, bless her heart, was a supremely lousy cook! Salt of the Earth, but my God, the woman could ruin tap water.
And before you ask– yep, canned, jellied cranberries for us! It's not that we don't know how to make the "fresh" kind, but there's just something so wonderfully kitsch about jellied cranberries-in-a-can. Screw-screw-push-PLORP. My family even has our own special platter for the Ringed Wonder.
All This Is That said... 4
''...... don't, however, understand another poster's twenty questions. That seemed just a bit, well, unnecessary.''
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Only ''unnecessary'' if you decide to beat to death one point over and over and over, instead of entering a real discussion!
The earlier and earlier opening of stores on holidays is a good indicator of the demise of family values. I shudder to think what family life will be like when the generation holding the grandparents of today is gone.
I remember when stores didn't use to be open on Sunday at all or opened late and when nothing at all was open on a holiday. Families were closer then. Holidays were special. I mourn the loss of family closeness. It was rare that people missed a family gathering because of their work schedule, but today it a holiday is just another work day for many and being with family isn't important.
My family and I talk about how the world has changed. Yes, technology has made many facets of life much easier/better. Yes, I know in many ways life is "easier". But, at what cost to the family? Communication between people is electronic rather than direct; they text rather than dial a phone.
I'm not saying this very well. I just wish we could return to a world when family closeness and values were the norm rather than the exception.
puppies and kittens said... 8
''........First world problems. So complicated. *yawn*''
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What? No *twirl*?
Not to be a spoiler, but one thing that stood out to me toward the end of "The Dust Bowl" was the gentleman who said something to the effect of accumulating too much without considering the future cost was a downfall to many people and could have catastophic results. I know these are not the exact words, but DS has taken over the DVR and I can't get the exact quote for you. I think that applies very much to what we are discussing about how stores are opening earlier and earlier so that people can accumulate more and at the cost of family time during the holidays. It also applies to the Gosselin story - filming in order to obtain wealth as the cost of the 8's childhoods and the collapse of their marriage. Yeah, I know Kate says the show didn't contribute to the demise of their marriage and it may be true, but who can say that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I wish the troll would make some sort of sense.
Those were some of the most powerful, insightful and inspiring stories I've ever heard, seen or felt.
Thank you so much, Administrator.
Hope we can all learn from this. Unfortunately, history is repeated when we don't learn from the past.
I would to have loved to have been able to know Carolyn. Such wisdom, strength, common sense and devotion to the land.
Night, everybody.
Manic--depressed, manic--depressed is her pattern. A part of me feels bad for her. Mental illness must be difficult to live with.
Suze said... 7
The earlier and earlier opening of stores on holidays is a good indicator of the demise of family values. I shudder to think what family life will be like when the generation holding the grandparents of today is gone.
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How many remember that 7-11 was not just the name of a convenient store, it also stood for the hours it opened and closed. 7am it opened and 11pm it closed.
Oh I loooovvveeedd the ten cent huge pickles they had. Nummmmmm. The crazy thing is that back then, even a dime was hard to come by.
Remona said,
Only ''unnecessary'' if you decide to beat to death one point over and over and over, instead of entering a real discussion!
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Who decides what constitutes a "real" discussion? I only saw that the poster gave an opinion, tried to clarify it, and was met with a somewhat condescending response. I didn't see that it was beaten to death. Why would the person have to answer any questions regarding the movie, or Thanksgiving plans, if that wasn't a topic he/she wanted to discuss just for the sake of it being a "real" discussion?
What an excellent documentary.
Thank you so much for recommending it.
Ken Burns did it again.
P.S. there was one part that made my skin crawl- and it involved
GRASSHOPPERS! Damn it. If life was not hard enough for those people.
Well, you'll see.
All This Is That said... 14
''.... Why would the person have to answer any questions regarding the movie, or Thanksgiving plans, if that wasn't a topic he/she wanted to discuss just for the sake of it being a "real" discussion?''
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All I have to say is...you don't have to agree with me, but my opinion on the issue is as valid as yours.
@AyBay_Bailey: Another day of sitting in the dorm watching Kate Plus 8 reruns. @Kateplusmy8 = #myhero
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Well, that will certainly help the old GPA! Bet her parents are glad to know what their tuition dollars are going for.
Well...just finished reading 100+ comments and it sure has been....interesting.
Way too many posts I'd love to comment on so I'm just going to squish everything into one post. Hope that's okay.
Auntie...thinking about you. Hope everything turns out positive. Hugs!
Admin...TOTALLY agree with everything you have commented on regarding working on Thanksgiving. At first I was confused by the posters whose arguments for pro had to do with employees ( some at least ) depending on the money. I was thinking ' don't they get paid anyways...stat holiday and all....but then I guess that only applies to salaried workers and not hourly employees. Is that correct?
It's sad how things have changed over even the last 30 years or so...all due to greed....and if stores feel the need to open I would hope that people were able to volunteer to work and not force the ones to work who would prefer the day off, for whatever reason.
Zelda....I'm with you on your views. That would be great if everyone could work it out.
To all the posters who mentioned our changing times....I wish we could turn back time....at least about how holidays and Sundays, etc were back then. Sure, so many things are MUCH easier these days....remember when you could only get cash by going to the bank and standing in crazy long lineups, banking hours?? Searching for a pay phone..especially during an emergency?? Trying to phone your best girlfriend to gab and getting nothing but a busy signal for hours cuz bro was already on, talking to his girlfriend?? Oh well, I guess I look at things now as having to give up some things I'm not crazy about, wishing for simpler times, etc as the price we pay for some of the new, awesome things that make our lives easier.
Maybe if we add up the 1-2 hours EVERY week we used to spend in bank lineups...time that can now be spent at home, with family and put it up against the occasional holiday working...I don't know....does it add up...even things out maybe?? Not sure but it is perhaps a way I weigh the pros and cons...makes it seem not quite so icky.
In other news: Kate Gosselin still SUCKS!
Oh....forgot to add:
Dwindle....you rock! : )
Admin (12)
I often think about her actions through a veil of untreated mental illness. Robert indicated that family members confirmed she is bi-polar. Plus all the evidence points to her being extremely NPD as well as histrionic. All this going untreated - plus heaping on the fact that she has 8 (count them) 8 children growing up as witnesses to all that makes me so sad. Sad because it doesn't have to be this way. Sad because it's so public. Sad because in 10 years her children will google all of this up and have to deal with this as their mother's enduring gift to them. I'm also sad for everyone who put themselves out there for this family (both emotionally and financially) who were only repaid with hurt.
On another note DH and I watched part 1 of the Dustbowl. It sparked an intense discussion about how we would have fared back then. My god these people were strong! I couldn't have lasted one summer without central air. History has a way of putting all your problems in a prism so that only the important things are left. These people had tragedy and heartache while dealing with deprivation and need. Makes me appreciate the good in my life because my bad isn't that bad.
@17...
Seems there are some rather, oh, what's the word - flippant responses today. Why? I think I'll back away for the evening and figure out how many pounds of turkey we need per person and if we should go with the canned or homemade cranberry relish!
By the way, fantastic documentary, admin. Thanks for the heads-up on it!
Buttercup....21:
What an excellent post!
So, so true and so very sad.
Twittering you're welcome and thank you to you all for coming along on the journey.
I just loved the whole documentary. Caroline Henderson was a remarkable women. She lived in "no man's land" for almost 50 years and she and her husband had only 10 bumper crops in that whole time. That's approximately 2 every 5 years. I'm ordering the book of her letters, "Letters From the Dust Bowl."
Buttercup agree.
Also one thing I kept thinking about was how they kept talking about how they had to close all the windows and doors airtight to keep out the dust.
But this was in the dead of summer when it must have been an absolute inferno to not let a nice breeze come through. Crazy.
. I was thinking ' don't they get paid anyways...stat holiday and all....but then I guess that only applies to salaried workers and not hourly employees. Is that correct?
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There's a novel idea. Paid holidays. Then no one would have to feel like they have to work it because they need the money.
Why would the person have to answer any questions regarding the movie,
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It's a documentary, not a movie. No one has to answer any questions, I think the other poster was just being friendly trying to draw you in get you to be a part of the flow and join in. It's too bad you reacted so hostile to someone extending a welcoming hand.
Not to be a spoiler, but one thing that stood out to me toward the end of "The Dust Bowl" was the gentleman who said something to the effect of accumulating too much without considering the future cost was a downfall to many people and could have catastophic results.
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I didn't expect this double meaning, I thought I was watching a documentary on the Dust Bowl. I realize now there is a much bigger message here. A message of what greed, haste, poor planning, ignorance, an obsession with bigger and better and more and more, ultimately can lead to incredible disaster and even death. This is an important film for our times. A very, very important film. Thank you Ken Burns, I salute you.
Off to watch part 2 now, things have finally calmed down and I can cozy up and really take it all in.
Re: possessions. Wasn't it George Carlin who had a routine about people buying stuff, and filling closets with stuff, and eventually moving so they could have a bigger house for more stuff? How true that is for so many of us.
admin said,
It's a documentary, not a movie. No one has to answer any questions, I think the other poster was just being friendly trying to draw you in get you to be a part of the flow and join in. It's too bad you reacted so hostile to someone extending a welcoming hand.
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Is this directed at me (@14)? I didn't react hostile to anything, and the poster wasn't trying to draw me into anything. The poster was asking questions to Anonymous, not to me. All I did was to point out that Anonymous had a different opinion than many here. I'm sorry about calling it a "movie." I know it's a documentary. My mistake. It was a real eye-opener and the stories shared by others here were so very interesting.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Farmer_walking_in_dust_storm_Cimarron_County_Oklahoma2.jpg/613px-Farmer_walking_in_dust_storm_Cimarron_County_Oklahoma2.jpg
Arthur Rothstein was 21 when he took the above famous photo.
Here's the quote of the evening we were looking for:
"We want it now. And if it makes money now, it's a good idea. But it isn't necessarily a good idea if the things we're doing are going to mess up the future--it wasn't a good idea. Don't deal in the moment. Take the long term look at things." --Wayne Lewis.
Wow, how applicable is that quote to so many things, including the exploitation of children on reality shows.
"Synder told NBC News that Target employees always receive time-and-a-half pay for working national holidays. Workers clocking hours during Thanksgiving and Black Friday also receive additional pay bonuses, she said. Only one-third of Target's workforce is scheduled to work on Thanksgiving." - Today.com
Did I read someone has a child that is fortunate enough to have not one but THREE Thanksgiving meals? Wow. That's pretty wonderful and very fortunate.
My point of view with this comes from living in a women's shelter for 3 mths. We all felt such guilt with living on government grants and the kindness of people's donations to the 'house'. I was fortunate enough to get back on my feet and find my own housing. I left behind 23 other women who haven't found their footing yet.
I'm kind of willing to bet that if people who didn't want to work holidays could contact any of those 23 friends of mine, they'd LEAP with joy at the chance to not only make money but work and feel productive in society again.
To have healthcare benefits, pay raises, disability insurance, unemployment insurance, and social security when they get old would be something beyond their wildest dreams. Yeah, that sounds pretty pathetic but these women would almost work for free just for these benefits for their children.
As Forrest Gump would say... "and that's all I gotta say 'bout that."
To have healthcare benefits, pay raises, disability insurance, unemployment insurance, and social security when they get old would be something beyond their wildest dreams. Yeah, that sounds pretty pathetic but these women would almost work for free just for these benefits for their children.
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See this speaks to exactly why this company absolutely does NOT need to open on Thanksgiving night. If they are a company that can afford time and a half, bonuses, health care, pay raises, insurance, then they do not need to open on this holiday. And in fact, it sounds to me like they could just close and afford to give everyone the paid holiday. If you can afford all those time and a half payouts and bonuses, why not just close? GREED, pure and simple. Just greed. It's not about giving people work, it's not about people not caring if they have to work holidays, it's about greed, period. It literally scares me that we have become so, so desperate to work and so blase to a nationally mandated day of thanks that doesn't even had to be religious, that we will even work on that day and think nothing of it. It hurts my heart. It is so important to pause and be thankful for just one day. I like the idea of trading off with those who don't celebrate and that would probably work great in a lot of areas. But a lot of America isn't diverse enough to accomplish this in a realistic manner. For instance where I'm from is about 90% Catholic and 10% protestant. I never met a single person my entire childhood who did not mark both Thanksgiving and Christmas and mark it seriously. It just wasn't a option in my community. There were no Jewish people, there were no Muslims. There wouldn't be anyone to work the holidays happily. Thank god in "my day" (lol) that wasn't expected of my parents. Another question, if Target is so generous as they make themselves out to be, why not just give the paid holiday and be done with it?
Target is a HUGE company. One-third is a HUGE number. It is not "only" one third to me. I cannot possibly believe that an entire one-third of its work force doesn't care to celebrate Thanksgiving or is that desperate to clock in just three more hours. It also should be noted that Target only decided to do this 9pm thing a couple weeks ago. It was very last minute. The ads were all printed before they realized there would be such a terrible backlash and now they had forced to commit to it because they've already told all of America they are doing it. They could even face lawsuits for false advertising if they back out now, so they're stuck. I'm sure there have been damage control meetings all week to get out of this one and the lawyers won't let them. So the argument people need the three extra hours to get by doesn't hold muster because they weren't expecting it anyway until but two weeks ago--they were going to make it work somehow before they heard about this. Finally, I don't trust anything they say, as they have been caught in numerous lies about this--they said that it would be all voluntary (an entire third of their workforce is voluntary??) but an employee blew the whistle on that by posting a photo of the work chart which showed that no one was allowed to take off Thanksgiving. That's not voluntary, that's a LIE.
Oh sorry one last thing, I hope you are scrolling on by by now :) But Greedy Gosselins, one is not ungrateful just because they want THANKSGIVING day off for God sakes. I would never dream of implying such a thing. Everyone, including our hardest most sincere workers there are, deserves one day of rest and thanks ONCE A YEAR. It does not move me or make me feel guilty this idea that many other people would gladly take a job that makes you work on Tday --It simply frightens me. How did we get to this place where we are not supporting our work force as one in making sure we are afforded BASIC, BASIC rights like the right to have one day of rest with family and friends to give thanks for our gifts.
"We want it now. And if it makes money now, it's a good idea. But it isn't necessarily a good idea if the things we're doing are going to mess up the future--it wasn't a good idea. Don't deal in the moment. Take the long term look at things." --Wayne Lewis.
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You know, it struck me? This is for you, too Target. And Walmart, and all those greedy big boxes.
You want it now. You want those three extra hours now. You want those three extra hours of cold hard cash NOW. But what exactly are you doing to our future? Take the long term look, I beg of you. LIsten to Wayne Lewis. He knows what he speaks of.
puppies and kittens said...
It's kind of rich that one poster complaining about family members having to work on Black Friday just admitted that they participated in it.
Now, they are all righteous about it because it just began to affect THEM.
First world problems. So complicated. *yawn*
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well, that would be weird, wouldnt it? I know several, including me, disapproved of retail and other luxuries being open on Thanksgiving Day, and many complained about crowds on the day after, but I will have to go back and find the post(s) complaining about folks working on Friday, the day after the holiday.
I myself avoid shopping coz of the crowds; did go a time or two with family some years ago, but not for a long time.
well, that would be weird, wouldnt it? I know several, including me, disapproved of retail and other luxuries being open on Thanksgiving Day, and many complained about crowds on the day after, but I will have to go back and find the post(s) complaining about folks working on Friday, the day after the holiday.
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Well they don't exist so...reading comprehension strikes the defectors again! :)
We're not an unreasonable lot. We didn't ask the big boxes to shut down the entire four days and say 100 hail marys while they do it. This those three hours on Thursday, that's all.
By the way, wasn't planning to do this, but there is a new post!!
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...
Why would the person have to answer any questions regarding the movie,
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It's a documentary, not a movie. No one has to answer any questions, I think the other poster was just being friendly trying to draw you in get you to be a part of the flow and join in. It's too bad you reacted so hostile to someone extending a welcoming hand.
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You apparently have come to know me quite well. I was seriously trying to engage the poster in some intelligent dialogue. Fail.
It literally scares me that we have become so, so desperate to work and so blase to a nationally mandated day of thanks that doesn't even had to be religious, that we will even work on that day and think nothing of it. It hurts my heart. It is so important to pause and be thankful for just one day.
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In my example, these women are so desperate to work ANY day and ANY hour just to cover the basics like put a roof over their own and their children's heads. They are desperate to be able to keep the power/water/gas bill paid. They are especially desperate to simply put FOOD on the table.
Please don't assume these women don't give thanks for every meal, kindness, and blanket they recieve. They certainliy don't wait for one special day to do it. I've seen more tears of 'thankfulness' throughout an ordinary Wednesday for the meals they received. Grateful doesn't seem to adequately describe how they feel EVERY day, multiple times a day. Not just Thanksgiving. Maybe everyone needs to be a little more grateful for what they have everyday. Just had an excellent meal you cooked yourself? Give thanks. You were able to wash an entire load of clothes in your own home without slugging it to the laundromat along with all your quarters? Give thanks.
Others, and I'm pretty sure these ladies are not the only ones, are desperate to work just for the basic necessities.
My post was mainly for the people complaining that they HAVE A JOB and woe is me I have to work an extra shift. Be thankful you have that job. Many, many others are not so fortunate.
I'm not arguing about Target, I'm trying to get the point across that these are deperate times for some people and to see/hear others complain while living in thier own home gives me the impression that they are the ones who are blase.
I'm trying to restrain myself from sounding rude here but I feel very passionately about this.
GG, thank you. I have tears streaming down my cheeks as I write this. I bought groceries today and without even thinking about it I said, "we stay at auntie's on Wednesday night so that's 2 full days of meals, plus she said we could stay Friday---"
I worked holidays for many years and missed many family dinners. I'd give my left boob to be forced to work on a Thursday, because that's all the day really is, another day to get through.
More people than most don't have large family dinners to talk about. Some are lucky just to be invited to join another family and others might be thankful for being able to have a free meal at a shelter.
Hey Dreams! Meet Penney, another real working woman hero. She was in the same predicament I was in, or similar. You're not alone, my friend.
Hang in there!
i live in liverpool uk.i have been reading these posts about the dustbowl and have become so interested i downloaded 'letters from the dustbowl"
i am enjoying the posts on thanksgiving and hearing about your family get togethers sounds so nice.
the gosselin house looks big enough to have a really big family gathering.
happy thanksgiving to you all.i look forward to reading about your get togethers
I'm sorry, but in an economy like the current one complaining about people having the opportunity to work is a bit much. If someone's Target shift happens to fall on a Thursday night, their pay check would decrease with the store closed. Maybe that's not a big deal to someone making a lawyer's salary, but to others it might be a very big deal.
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Target and Walmart are BILLION DOLLAR companies.
They could easily afford to actually PAY the employees for the day off.
They CHOOSE not to. And if 350,000 of your employees do not want to work, you have a huge problem. If your workers are threatening to strike, you have a huge problem.
heather
Anonymous said... 44
I'm sorry, but in an economy like the current one complaining about people having the opportunity to work is a bit much. If someone's Target shift happens to fall on a Thursday night, their pay check would decrease with the store closed. Maybe that's not a big deal to someone making a lawyer's salary, but to others it might be a very big deal.
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Target and Walmart are BILLION DOLLAR companies.
They could easily afford to actually PAY the employees for the day off.
They CHOOSE not to. And if 350,000 of your employees do not want to work, you have a huge problem. If your workers are threatening to strike, you have a huge problem.
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Nobody has claimed that there is any benevolence on the part of Target. All that some of us have said is that some will benefit from the extra hours. Since we all know that Target and Walmart are not going to pay for their employees not to work on the holiday, your point is irrelevant.
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It literally scares me that we have become so, so desperate to work and so blase to a nationally mandated day of thanks that doesn't even had to be religious, that we will even work on that day and think nothing of it. It hurts my heart.
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And it scares me that some so lack empathy about others' need to work to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads that they will insult those who need to do that by calling them "blase about a nationally mandated holiday." Take a look around you. Not everyone is living in your Norman Rockwell world.
It also scares me that some apparently need a nationally mandated holiday to remember to be grateful.
All that some of us have said is that some will benefit from the extra hours. Since we all know that Target and Walmart are not going to pay for their employees not to work on the holiday, your point is irrelevant.
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No one has been able to provide one real example of someone needing the extra hours. Just speculation about some scenerio where someone might not be able to feed their children without the three extra hours. Yet all around the net Target employees are saying they are getting upwards of 65 hours a week during the holidays. It's not logical that someone is that desperate for hours when the store offers you 65 a week. Someone else posted that in her experience there is absolutely NO SHORTAGE of hours during the holidays--plenty to go around.
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And it scares me that some so lack empathy about others' need to work to feed their families
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It's insulting to suggest that those who feel holidays should be sacred lacks empathy. Someone who lacks empathy wouldn't feel so strongly that holidays should be paid. That's not lacking empathy, that is just the opposite. Not only do I want these workers to get PAID, but I want them to be able to be with their families while doing so!
You know nothing about me. I did not come from a Normal Rockwell world. My roots are working class, blue collar. Who really lacks empathy? Someone who wants these workers to get a paid holiday from a company making BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS when far lesser companies do it? Or someone who sees nothing wrong with our working class working that holiday and not getting it paid without working? I know what my answer is.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 46
It's insulting to suggest that those who feel holidays should be sacred lacks empathy.
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It's equally insulting to suggest that those who work because they need the $ are "blase about mandated holidays."
Sara I share your concern and glad you brought up small area stores. What does it do to them when a big store opens so early on a holiday but they can't or morally will not? This goes far beyond the face value. But at least they have a fighting chance if they all open on Friday together.
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