A pre-trial conference was held yesterday in Kate's ongoing lawsuit against Jon and Robert Hoffman. On that date Jon's attorney Shawn Tuma also filed his second Federal Rules of Court 12(b)(6) Motion to Dismiss, and Robert Hoffman also filed a joinder to the motion to dismiss.
The full text of the motion from PACER is here:
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
The full text of the motion from PACER is here:
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE
EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
-
) CIVIL ACTION
v. )
-
) NO.: 13:4989
JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN, ROBERT )
HOFFMAN, and JOHN AND JANE DOES ) 1-20 ) ) Defendants. )
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin (“Jon”, “Jonathan,” or “Defendant”), by and through his attorneys, BrittonTuma and Orwig Law Offices, files Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Brief in Support of Motion to Dismiss First Amended Complaint.
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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II. PRIMARY QUESTIONS PRESENTED
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Satisfaction of CFAA Access. The CFAA prohibits unauthorized access of
computer or online information, not misuse or misappropriation. Plaintiff’s
access allegations are speculative, naked assertions that do not specify the
computer or account accessed, when accessed, or how access was
accomplished.
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 2
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 3 of 26
III. STATEMENT OF RELEVANT FACTS
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 3 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
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Once the divorce was final, Jonathan was required to move from the Apartment; Kate
continued living in the family home. When Jonathan moved from the Apartment, he left Kate’s
copy of the backup DVDs in the Apartment in a box along with other items he believed Kate
would want. He informed Kate that the DVDs were in the box. The following day Kate contacted
Jonathan and asked if he would be returning for any other items left in the Apartment; he
responded that he was not and she could keep or discard the items as she saw fit. The children
volunteered to Jonathan that Kate (and her friend) threw away in the trash everything left behind
in the Apartment (presumably, including Kate’s copy of the DVDs that Jonathan left behind).
Jonathan has not wrongfully accessed any computer, online accounts, or telephone belonging to
Kate—it is far more plausible that Kate threw out the DVDs in the trash herself.
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 4 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
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Even under the liberal notice pleading standards of Rule 8, a plaintiff must provide
sufficient factual allegations to demonstrate a plausible claim for relief prior to the court
unlocking the doors to expensive discovery. “[T]he pleading standard Rule 8 announces does not
require ‘detailed factual allegations,’ but it demands more than an unadorned, the-defendant-
unlawfully-harmed-me accusation.” Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009) (quoting Bell
Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555-56, (2007)).
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 5 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
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680. The Court then looked at the following allegations: (1) “petitioners ‘knew of, condoned, and
willfully and maliciously agreed to subject [him]’ to harsh conditions of confinement ‘as a matter
of policy, solely on account of [his] religion, race, and/or national origin and for no legitimate
penological interest.’” (2) “Ashcroft was the ‘principal architect’ of this invidious policy, and []
Mueller was ‘instrumental’ in adopting and executing it.” Id. at 680-81. The Court referred to
these as “bare assertions, much like the pleading of conspiracy in Twombly, amount[ing] to
nothing more than a ‘formulaic recitation of the elements’ of a constitutional discrimination
claim, namely, that petitioners adopted a policy ‘”because of,” not merely “in spite of,” its
adverse effects upon an identifiable group.’ As such, the allegations are conclusory and not
entitled to be assumed true.” Id. at 681.
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 6 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
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The complaint in Iqbal contained “factual allegations” that, taken as true, were consistent
with the plaintiff’s claim for relief but that was not the end of analysis. There were more likely
explanations which explained those events in a way that made the “factual allegations” not
plausible. The plausibility requirement is what made the difference between granting and
denying the motion to dismiss. That is, the Court found there were factual allegations that
supported the plaintiff’s theory of the case and that there were alternative theories as well.
Relying upon its common sense and judicial experience, the Court compared a “’obvious
alternative explanation’” to the theory advanced by the plaintiff and inferred that the theory
advanced by the plaintiff was not a plausible conclusion. Id. at 682.
The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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3. If not, are the factual allegations supporting the discrete nuances of the claim
strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible?
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 8 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
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some other reason. It is also possible that all reports, blocking and blacklisting are erroneous and
no eavesdropping took place.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. “What Plaintiff has alleged in
effect is the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability. Absent facts to support his
speculation, he is not entitled to discovery to see what he may find.” Id.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
Amended Complaint
“Jon illegally hacked into Kate’s email account, and her phone, and bank accounts.” Am. Compl. p. 1. “Jon began accessing Kate’s password protected email [and banking] account without her authorization.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11, 14. “On information and belief, Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone.” Am. Compl. ¶ 24. “On information and belief, Jon’s unauthorized access to known password protected accounts through the Internet has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶ 25. “In reality, Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 ... hacked into Kate Gosselin’s various accounts– and the protected computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 32. “On information and belief, Defendants Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 illegally accessed Kate’s computers confidential data ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 38. “Jon Gosselin, and potentially others ... improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password, without authorization to access the contents of those accounts and the computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 48. |
JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter
“someone, currently believed to be Janou, or one of her agents, placed a flash memory drive on JBC and JP computer servers ... in an effort to surreptitiously rip information from the drives.” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525-26. “Plaintiffs' technology personnel found spyware and malware on Plaintiffs' servers. They believe the spyware to have been possibly remotely placed. Further, they believe it possible that information was taken remotely by Janou and Puglia. Indeed, according to IT personnel, Janou could have passed along her login-information to Puglia, in excess of her authorized use, which would explain the placement, remotely of spyware or the remote removal of Plaintiffs' data.” Id. at 526. “upon information and belief, ‘all Defendants’ have been using the two notebooks belonging to plaintiffs that Janou has yet to return.” Id. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards “by monitoring Plaintiff's Internet communications and/or allowing third parties to do so.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. |
The allegations in the Amended Complaint are more conclusory and speculative than
those in JBCHoldings, Smith, and Iqbal. There are no factual averments that identify any specific
computer or online account that was accessed, when they were accessed, or how information
needed to accomplish the access was obtained. This is exacerbated by the frequent “information
and belief” allegations demonstrating Plaintiff is speculating.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 9 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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Perhaps most telling is the allegation “Hoffman falsely claimed in certain publications
that he recovered the data from Kate’s computer by digging through her trash that he found on
the street. . . . The materials in his possession could not possibly be physically found in paper
format to that extent. If Hoffman was picking through trash on the street, he did not find this
trove of personal information while engaging in his trash-picking endeavors.” Am. Compl. ¶ 31.
This is not a factual allegation. This is rationalization. This is conjecture. This is speculation—as
to why it had to be hacking—because how else could it have happened, right? Or, is there a more
plausible alternative explanation?
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 10 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
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cannot allege how the access occurred, i.e., how did Defendants have the information to access
the computers?
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 11 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
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merely ‘a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action’ ... [r]eliance by [Plaintiff] on
information and belief cannot transform legal conclusions into plausible factual allegations.” Id.
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 12 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
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Defendant accessed Kate’s (1) “password protected email account,” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11-12, (2)
“online, password-protected banking accounts,” Am. Compl. ¶ 14, and (3) cellphone, Am.
Compl. ¶ 16. Those are the same three allegations Plaintiff publicly addressed in 2009.
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 13 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
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2. The State law claims are time-barred.
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 14 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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Philadelphia, 2010 WL 1254111 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 31, 2010), vacated in part on other grounds,
415 Fed. Appx. 434 (3d Cir. 2011). The Wilson Court was considering a motion to dismiss
premised on official immunity issues that required facts concerning the dates and roles of
defendant’s prior employment. This information was not available in the complaint or any
incorporated documents. In granting the motion to dismiss, the court took judicial notice of
information from the defendant’s biography page on a law firm’s website. Id. at n.4.
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 15 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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C. The Amended Complaint Does Not Adequately Plead “Loss” or “Access”—Two
Essential Elements of a CFAA Civil Claim (Count I).
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 16 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
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the violator to obtain compensatory damages and injunctive relief or other equitable relief.” 18
U.S.C. § 1030(g). Second, section 1030(g) goes on to state that “[a] civil action for a violation of
this section may be brought only if the conduct involves 1 of the factors set forth in subclauses
(I), (II), (III), (IV), or (V) of subsection (c)(4)(A)(i).” Id. Third, looking at the five subsection
(c)(4)(A)(i) factors, the only one applicable to the case at bar is (I): “loss to 1 or more persons
during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. §
1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). A plaintiff must satisfy each of these steps for a civil remedy and the critical
inquiry is, was there a loss?
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once
again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 17 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once
again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
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Plaintiff’s second attempt at pleading a loss is inadequate for several reasons.
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 18 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
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c) The components of Plaintiff’s economic losses do not meet the Third
Circuit’s requirement for loss.
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 19 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
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or that there has been an interruption of service. The only thing Plaintiff has alleged is that
Defendant copied data from computers—not caused any damage or harm to them. See discussion
supra Section IV.C.1.b. She has not alleged that the online services or data were damaged. Time
and effort spent investigating and assessing damage to a computer is outside the scope of the loss
provision where there was no need to restore data, a program, a system, or information to its
condition prior to the Defendant’s conduct. Fink v. Time Warner Cable, 810 F. Supp.2d 633, 641
(S.D.N.Y. 2011).
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-Ã -vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 20 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-Ã -vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
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Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3rd Cir. Oct. 2, 2012); Grant Mfg. &
Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 2011 WL 4467767, at *5 n.12 (E.D. Pa. Sept. 23, 2011) aff'd, 499
Fed. Appx. 157 (3d Cir. 2012); Farmers Ins. Exch. v. Auto Club Group, 823 F. Supp. 2d 847,
856 (N.D. Ill. 2011).
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 21 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
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this information from Plaintiff's pleadings demonstrates that no such damage existed and that
Plaintiff cannot meet its pleading burden under the Act. In that same vein, Plaintiff would have
been similarly aware of the existence of any interruption in service as a result of alleged
violations under the Act. However, despite the opportunity to amend [her] Complaint, Plaintiff
completely failed to plead any such damage or loss. Accordingly, Plaintiff's claim under the Act
fails.” Advantage Ambulance Group, Inc. v. Lugo, 2009 WL 839085, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 30,
2009). Plaintiff’s CFAA claim should be dismissed without leave to amend and re-plead again.
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 22 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
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that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss,” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp. 2d at 526, as
discussed previously in this brief and as demonstrated by the comparison of the allegations found
insufficient in JBCHoldings and Smith to those in the Amended Complaint. See discussion supra
Section IV.A.2.
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 23 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
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whether an access to a computer "exceeds authorized access" or is "without authorization", it is
imperative to know the identity of the specific computer allegedly accessed, when it occurred,
and how it occurred to determine what rights (if any) the person had to access the computer in
general. The Complaint does not identify any specific computer associated with the alleged
access of e-mail or online banking accounts.
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 24 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
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“book contained defamatory and untrue information about Kate Gosselin, along with information
that painted Kate in a false and negative light.” Am. Compl. ¶ 36. Plaintiff affirmatively
disproves her claim.
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS
Document 11-1
Filed 10/22/13 Page 26 of 26
Dated: October 22, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024
d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com
Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609
p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024
d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com
Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609
p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that a true and correct copy of the foregoing document has been
served via personal hand delivery upon all counsel of record in the above-styled civil action on
October 22, 2013, at the Court’s Status Conference.
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF
MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 26
Robert's motion:
: CIVIL ACTION
v. : :
Robert's motion:
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 1 of 2
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN :: CIVIL ACTION
v. : :
JONATHAN GOSSELIN,
: No. 13-4989
:
ROBERT HOFFMAN, :
:
and JOHN AND JANE DOES 1-20 :
:
ROBERT HOFFMAN’S MOTION TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT
Defendant Robert Hoffman moves to dismiss the
complaint for all the reasons contained in defendant Jonathan
Gosselin’s motion to dismiss the complaint. Mr. Hoffman joins
in Mr. Gosselin’s motion, which is fully applicable to Mr.
Hoffman.
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ James P. Golden______________
James P. Golden
I.D. Nos. 32169
HAMBURG & GOLDEN, P.C.
1601 Market Street, Suite 3310
Philadelphia, PA 19103-1443
(215) 255-8590
goldenjp@hamburg-golden.com
Dated: October 23, 2013
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 2 of 2
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, James P. Golden, certify that the foregoing
motion/joinder has been filed electronically and is now
available for viewing and downloading from the Court’s
Electronic Case Filing System and that the motion/joinder has
been served on October 23, 2013, by email and regular mail.
A. Jordan Rushie, Esquire
Mulvihill & Rushie LLC
The Fishtown Lawyer
2424 E. York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125
Jordan@FishtownLaw.com
Marc J. Randazza, Esquire
Randazza Legal Group
3625 S. Town Center Drive
Las Vegas, NV 89135
mjr@randazza.com
Attorneys for Plaintiff
Kate Gosselin
Shawn E. Tuma, Esquire
BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220
Plano, Texas 75024
stuma@brittontuma.com
Richard L. Orwig, Esquire
Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609
rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
Attorneys for defendant
Jonathan K. Gosselin
/s/ James P. Golden
JAMES P. GOLDEN
Dated: October 23, 2013
1201 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1201 Newer› Newest»Alberta wow. I'm afraid this may turn out the same nonetheless I think it's good for the victims in this to know that someone finally stood up to her. I think it's good to know someone tried. It may empower others not to roll over to such people.
I'm concerned about the kids being mentioned. You guys have been talking about how hard depositions are. If this continues, will Kate's attorney call them in for a deposition? Esp Cara and Mady since they were older at the time of the "crime." Then they have to decide who to support, whether to lie or tell the truth. I can just picture that Kate's lawyer would be challenging them. Are you SURE that's what happened? Are you SURE your father didn't ask you to lie? It all sounds very traumatic. I would have been scared to death being questioned like that at the age of 13. Poor kids.
All the babies playing "Baby Holly" are boys. One of them was only a few days old and was the nephew of one of our casting agents. I've also heard that another was a crew member's neighbor's new son.
The babies are only allowed to work for 20 minutes.
* The above was written by an editor for Breaking Bad on TWoP. 20 minutes for babies! That's 20 minutes TOO long, IMO, but at least the amount of time wasn't ghastly.
I'm no expert but have read a number of articles about NPD, and I would say that's fairly unlikely. Narcissists love nothing except themselves. They are their whole world. They might injure someone else or worse, if they believed it would further their desires. But to purposely inflict harm on themselves goes against their entire personality and hard wiring.
They can behave in ways that aren't wise, but not purposely doing so to hurt themselves.
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Yes, I agree. What they sometimes do though is "threaten" to hurt themselves. Another ploy and tactic to keep you as their narcissistic supply.
I'm no expert but have read a number of articles about NPD, and I would say that's fairly unlikely. Narcissists love nothing except themselves. They are their whole world. They might injure someone else or worse, if they believed it would further their desires. But to purposely inflict harm on themselves goes against their entire personality and hard wiring.
They can behave in ways that aren't wise, but not purposely doing so to hurt themselves.
*************************************************************************
Yes, I agree. What they sometimes do though is "threaten" to hurt themselves. Another ploy and tactic to keep you as their narcissistic supply.
@MiloandJack NP I prefer to avoid using numbers (ie 'the six'--altho I do use it occasionally or 'twins' etc- which I don't say)
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Are you effing kidding? EIGHT EIGHT EIGHT ...from the title of BOTH shows, to her blog, to her site, to her twitter, to her books??
Glad you're here Chef, love your short and to the point comments :)
kids first said... 80
While.Rome is burning, post pictures of puppies. LOL
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LOL is right! I can imagine them all with their fingers plugged in their ears chanting "lalalalalalala" (no disrespect to you LalaLand:)
TFW will ALWAYS think she is right, no matter what happens with this case.
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Agree agree agree! But I really think she'll just keep that opinion to herself after this smackdown. She's retweeting platitudes and such but not addressing the elephant in the room. Behind closed doors? Oh she's stomping mad! She absolutely thinks she's right.
Those saying it's an "inside" job-Rat Claws regarding the "alleged" hacking? "plausible"-lol
My theory is there was never any hacking, then OR now. These narcissists come up with explanations and scenarios to make them feel better when their world is literally finally falling apart. It's a coping mechanism. The lies become their truth. They whole heartedly believe the fantasy they've conjured up.
Are any "haters" tweeting her about all this?
Looks like there's more to Corey Feldman's memoirs. His mother was also abusive and pushed him into the limelight as a child. His mom reminds me so much like TFW. The article can be found on ROL.
It's been said before.... Robert got her. He got her, he legally obtained info that contradicts the entire false bill of goods she's been trying to sell for 7 years. All those confidentiality agreements and the wall of silence and isolation she built around herself, in the end she's the one who ended up throwing all her secrets out in the garbage.
**********************************************************************************
Beautiful! Poetic justice, at least for the trail of all her victims.
Can you imagine what Jon's whole family has gone through? Watching him be roped in, abused, and then spit out by Kate. Watching Kate and TLC bring him to his knees financially and forever tarnish his reputation. Seeing her attempts to turn those kids against him.
***********************************************************************
I've thought about this too. It's one thing to have grown up with the b*tch, or lived with her or been friends with her. Those people probably just rolled with it. But to be Jon's brother, mother, cousin....whatever?
Just the empathy most of US HERE feel for Jon and we don't even know him personally. Those kids :(
This is so sad and his mother reminds me so much of Kate.
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/corey-feldman-book-memoir-coreyography-stage-mom/
Anyone remember how TFW used to release venom on Twitter whenever things weren't going her way? She'd confront the non-fans head-on, in a stream of vitriolic tweets, and then (right before hitting the 'block' button) tell them, "Have a nice day!!!!)
Yeah...that's not happening much anymore, is it? Maybe as part of her new-and-improved image?
I may be wrong about this, but I thought it was part of Kate's religious upbringing that she believed in predestination? If so, combined with her narcissism, she will never back down on her drive to be a TV personality. The thing is, she probably justifies in her mind her manipulation to actually make events happen if that is her belief. I also found it odd how she would pray for material things back when she and Jon were struggling. When her prayer came through, she would say it was God's bidding. Yet, she made sure their wish list was publicized so the donations would pour in.
Does Robert's attorney have to file a motion to dismiss also?
Marie
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Awesome that TFW stalemated herself here. She's damned if she does [go forward with the suit], and she's damned if she doesn't. As the computer in WarGames put it, "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play." Unfortunately, her ego won't allow her to entertain the notion of logic.
TFW is starting to resemble Khan from Star Trek II. Her obsessions are finally being used against her. Just as Khan couldn't eradicate Capt. Kirk from the universe, TFW can't erase Jon from her universe, and that will eventually do her in.
Wondering if, later on, the kids could sue TFW for wrongful life.
200 -
This case is a long way from the deposition stage. The discovery process has yet to start. And as a former court reporter attending thousands of depositions, I never was in any deposition with a child. Don't see it happening here. Really don't see anyone wanting to spend/waste the money for this case to reach the expensive deposition stage. It would be a real money pit for KG.
@MiloandJack NP I prefer to avoid using numbers (ie 'the six'--altho I do use it occasionally or 'twins' etc- which I don't say)
_______________________
Can you imagine living with someone like this? Her whole existence revolves around the number 8, including 108 recipes in her failed cookbook. Eight is the number she bet at the Kentucky Derby, etc., etc.
And she doesn't say "twins" but she says "littles." There is no rhyme nor reason for the things she says.
I remember the episode where they were going to an amusement park and Cara was crying because she didn't want to wear whatever shoes Kate had demanded. Jon was going to let her wear flip-flops which is what she wanted to wear. Then Kate intervened and yelled at Jon about did he want them all losing their shoes??? Huh?
Hoffman has joinned Gosselin in his Motion to dismiss. Filed 10/23/13 Robert Hoffman's Motion To Dismiss The Complaint filed by his attorney. An excerpt from the joinder
"....for all the reasons contained in defendant Jonathan Gosselin’s motion to dismiss the complaint."
*joined
reader,
If you haven't already, would you e-mail Admin a copy of Robert's 2nd motion so she can post it, too? Thanks!
When will the alleged "Does" be named?
Kate has to make some decisions, doesn't she about the lawsuits? What a dilemma brought on by her own vengeance towards Jon coupled with stopping Robert's book. I would think her trusted advisor, Uncle Steve, would have told her to leave well enough alone, but no, she had the book publicity coming up so why not go out there and get on a few shows. Not only has she brought publicity to Robert's book to people who didn't even know it once existed, but she has proven to any TV producer what a handful she can be. Doesn't she realize the TLC and Figure 8 staffers have probably spread throughout the industry what a problem the woman is?
Sadly, I think no matter what happens TFW will still go on believing (or showing to the world she believes) that she is in the right. In her mind just because the case could get dismissed doesn't mean the things didn't happen, just that she took action too late. And of course the sheeple will back her up and continue to support her hatred of Jon. Also, if she doesn't win this case, I wouldn't be surprised if she tries another tack to take Jon down. Maybe not anytime soon but I don't think he will be completely safe from frivolous lawsuits from her until all the kids are 18.
Jbranck1980
I am also interested in reading Robert's second motion to dismiss. Thanks admin, if you can also post it. TFW's ship is sinking fast. She can always reminisce and take solace regarding the Titanic parody of her and Steve on this site as she's going down.
Hoffman's attorney just wrote a simple joinder letter. Sort of like saying "me too." However I do have it and can post it. I can't remember if he joined in Shawn's first brief. I thought Hoffman's approach was to not ask for a dismissal but to get the judge to decide it on the merits.
For those who are alluding to it, you are absolutely right. Why couldn't it just as easily be STEVE who is "hacking" her, if she is so sure someone is? She can't see past the nose on the end of her face. And Steve is professionally trained in computer security and knows all about her and has easy access. It would be much easier for him. And he knows how much she hates Jon so if she suspects anything he can steer her toward blaming Jon. It would be a brilliant plan if you think about it.
To be clear I have no reason to think Steve or anyone would do that, but my point is that she is so laser focused on Jon she may be overlooking other blatantly obvious suspects. She may be one of the dozens upon dozens of celebs who were burned by their staff. Happens all the time.
Questions said... 20
When will the alleged "Does" be named?
________
The way I understand it, if any co-conspirators of Jon & Robert are found during discovery (people who helped them hack and/or obtain Kate's information illegally) their name can be added to the lawsuit.
Yes, Admin, sort of a "What he said.!"
I do not believe Hoffman joined in on the first brief.
On my touchpad, the 'I' becomes the '8'. Maybe this is how TFW gets so confused.
Vanessa and others discussing this, I had read that narcissists don't have low self esteem or would consider suicide, but I did feel like the narcissist I know has very low self esteem at times. They always seemed to feel their career was going badly and blamed themselves, and did seem to blame themselves for their many failed relationships both romantic and otherwise. They would say things like I'm done no one wants me anymore, career wise and romantic wise. They would drink and go to bed at 8 o'clock and sleep until 10. It was actually sad at times. Maybe it was an act or an attempt to get sympathy. Not sure. It seemed pretty real to me. Who knows. I have always thought that Kate has similar low self esteem too, though I could be wrong. It's fascinating.
Another thought I have surrounding any alleged hacking, where was Steve? His firm claims to be experts at computer forensics. I do not suspect him of any crime, in fact I don't suspect anyone in this matter of "hacking." But what I am wondering, with Steve's background, his day to day profession, did he advise her when things began to go sour? Where comments and suggestions ever made? Statements like, "You might want to...."
Did he advise her to contact the proper authorities?
Regarding mentioning the kids in Jon's brief first and foremost I think he had to because that is an important part of the story.
Secondly though, it was a very wise play. I believe the kids told him exactly what he says. Kate knows if they ever have to testify they will say what Jon said they told him and maybe much worse. He tied her hands. Now the kids are off the table for her because now if she tries to coach them to say something else SHE will look suspicious. He basically took the kids off the table, IMO, by playing the hand right away. They're now useless to Kate's case. It was a brilliant move if it is what I think it is.
For once in her life, someone swooped in when it comes to the kids first. He pulled the rug out from under Kate and tied her hands. Well played.
Exactly reader.
I don't believe hacking ever happened either however why in the world if it did happen is it STILL happening four years later? You would think someone like Steve would have nipped that in the bud years ago. If he hasn't, he's not worth this paycheck.
It's just more holes and irrational pieces to her story that just don't make a whole lot of sense.
All I have to say about the lawsuit, the cookbook,the "broken" foot, the failed coupon site, just to name a couple.
Kate is actually making it easy to pick her top 10 worst of 2013. May even be the easiest list Admin has ever had to chose from
Vanessa and others discussing this, I had read that narcissists don't have low self esteem or would consider suicide, but I did feel like the narcissist I know has very low self esteem at times.
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I agree, it's not so black and white. But I think, deep down, a narcissist doesn't "know" they have low self esteem because of the fake life they've created.
As a side note-if she's bipolar like some of us have "thought" (disclaimer here!) then that along with being a narcissist is a whole other can of worms.
TWF's entire lawsuit doesn't make sense. I read her explanation as to why she needed to file this lawsuit on her website. What does this lawsuit even have to do with internet bullying?
Kate is actually making it easy to pick her top 10 worst of 2013. May even be the easiest list Admin has ever had to chose from
&&&
How is it that every year it just gets easier? I couldn't even narrow it down last year. I find that both funny and sad. It's almost like when she had the structure of the T.V. show she didn't have as much time to destroy everything else around her.
But what I am wondering, with Steve's background, his day to day profession, did he advise her when things began to go sour? Where comments and suggestions ever made? Statements like, "You might want to...."
Did he advise her to contact the proper authorities?
****************
Based only on what I have seen on the show and things Steve has said about Jon in the past, I don't think that Steve is an upstanding person. I think he is doing what he thought was in his best interest also, not TFW's. He is a coat rider and he has an investment in TFW, financially. I think he and TFW thought this would turn out quite differently.
Marie
Admin, yes that was a wise move, and in my mind a statement of fact. They love their parents. Has it been stated as to when the children told their Dad about his belongings being thrown out?
If this matter is worthy of the court''s time, a judge, the attorneys, tax payers, and in her mind a jury, if this matter is worthy of all of this, why did FOUR YEARS pass before it was addressed?
Wasn't it during this interim she talked about writing her book on her Iphone? Can anyone answer that?
Is that something the victim of cyber hacking does?
URL said... 32
TWF's entire lawsuit doesn't make sense. I read her explanation as to why she needed to file this lawsuit on her website. What does this lawsuit even have to do with internet bullying?
********
Good point-- what IS up with the whole "internet bullying" thing? I mean, it's why Kate isn't getting any jobs, right?????
btw, has anyone tweeted her lawyer's very astute observation about adults considering themselves "bullied"?
Once you're over let's say, 16, ya gotta turn in the "whhhaaaaaa, I'm being bullied" card and put on your big girl panties.
TWF's entire lawsuit doesn't make sense. I read her explanation as to why she needed to file this lawsuit on her website. What does this lawsuit even have to do with internet bullying?
&&&
It has nothing at all to do with it.
I think the best explanation is more or less what was said here. She was convinced in her head that Jon and perhaps Robert were leading the charge of all the online haters. She had literally convinced herself of this in her head. She wanted to get him for it, sue him, so she needed proof. She had to get the help of BV and all her fans so she pretended she was concerned about internet bullying in general to get them to attack and out people so she could obtain what she needed.
When Bullyville helped her to out the posters at RWA, she was taken aback to discover not a shred of evidence Jon was ever on that site. However, because she's a narcissist and can't be deterred, she shopped around her lawsuit anyway and got BV to take it. She thought that SHE would bully Jon with the lawsuit anyway and never let herself ever contemplate the idea that Jon would fight back (that's another story).
To save face with her fans, she had to tie it all about to bullying somehow since they all had bent over backwards to support her in the anti-bullying campaign (that was really all about outing Jon). So she writes that convoluted blog post claiming that she was trying to get to the bottom of bullies in general, but low and behold wouldn't you know it she discovered it was actually JON at the helm of it all. What a coinky-dink!
She flat out used her fans so she could get back at her children's father. It was NEVER about the fans and their own experiences with "bullying" and it was never about helping THEM. She doesn't care. Exactly what we predicted. All of them are guilty of setting fires then running away. I can't admire that. Now that it's all gone to sh&t as they say, BV has flown the coop and washed his hands of it. Kate, because she's a narcissist and stubborn, is trying to see it through, but is panicking and farting puppies because It's Not a Tuma has ripped her an absolute new one on the order she has never felt before. This is karma at its finest. She set out to get someone who did not deserve such wrath and karma finally came around. Karma thy name is Tuma.
Maybe there needs to be a Top Ten of All Time. I vote for filing a lawsuit against the father of her children #1.
Thank you, Math Girl and Kate is a Twit. I was cutting and pasting on my phone and didn't see the extra spaces that were causing the problem. Kablooey, Tuma blew her claims right out of the water with the timeline!
FRP
Admin - yes it is very sad. What makes it even sadder is there are children involved in it. What we saw on T.V. may have been edited some (remember I did say some) to make her look that "bad". But now there is no editing at all. It is all Kate and nothing but Kate that has created the "moments" this year. Not the film crew, editors, Haters, Fans. No one but Kate.
So she writes that convoluted blog post claiming that she was trying to get to the bottom of bullies in general, but low and behold wouldn't you know it she discovered it was actually JON at the helm of it all. What a coinky-dink!
******
The kicker is, Kate is the one spewing forth conjecture as truth and I mean, to the MASSES. Online and on tv with MILLIONS viewing. Look at this!
"She added that "the most unexpected and disappointing" part of it all was learning "who was at the center of it." And although she believes that to be the father of her children,"
How is this not hurting Jon and his job prospects? How is THIS not actionable?
I don't recall Jon ever saying anything slanderous about Kate during an interview, so just how does Kate get away with saying, for over 2 weeks during her "book tour", that basically, she's suing Jon because he did xyz, in other words, committed criminal acts.
Kate says it as though it's fact so it's out there-- the notion that Jon is a criminal. How is that not damaging?
Tucker and that's the complete hypocrisy here. She claims Jon's alleged actions caused prelims for her getting joe, yet accusing Jon of being a hacker and doing other things of that nature since 2009 has, according to Jon, made IT jobs a huge problem for him.
You are right, she is doing to him what she claims he did to her. It's the SAME THING.
So two wrongs make a right here?
@EmCr68: Ughhh these kate haters actually give me the creeps!!! I think it's time for a @BullyVille intervention!
Emily stop worrying about TFW's haters and enjoy your freshman year in college!
I think in the vague swirling innuendo TFW's various statements attribute the reason for the lawsuit to many different things, depending on her audience.
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 19 Aug 12
@hiswife04 I'm writing fourth now.. On my iPhone as usual :)
Is this the act of a victim of cyberhacking?
Not only writing a book on the Iphone (uses wifi) but advertising it to the world.
"I remember the episode where they were going to an amusement park and Cara was crying because she didn't want to wear whatever shoes Kate had demanded. Jon was going to let her wear flip-flops which is what she wanted to wear. Then Kate intervened and yelled at Jon about did he want them all losing their shoes??? Huh?"
This one isn't hard to understand. Flip flops can easily fall off a person's foot when going on rides, etc. In this case, I can understand her rationale.
I agree that Steve is a coat rider. He is not unbiased; he does have a financial interest in what happens with Kate. He probably is nothing more than her top enabler, a "yes" man, just to keep her happy. When the money tree dries up, he will be long gone. BTW, I think he totally weaseled his way into becoming the trustee in case something happened to Jon and Kate. He knows how much money there is in the estate, IMO. And I agree also, it doesn't make much sense for someone involved in "security" to not advise or at least investigate if Kate believes her accounts have been hacked. Where's the proof? Or maybe Kate is so out of control that he could not advise her at all. Either way, she has made a fool of herself and this time has met her match. Go Jon and Robert!
It's stuff like this:
"Jon violated a federal anti-hacking statute in order to publish salacious, scandalous and defamatory information about Kate," said her lawyer A. Jordan Rushie. "It's damaged her reputation."
that makes IT companies say "no thanks" to hiring Jon, and makes me almost wish he's sue HER for the smear campaign she ignited.
Baha! Yes reader the iphone! Maybe she thought just getting a new one stops the "hackers"?
"I've replaced my pink iphon EIGHT TIMES and he's STILL HACKING!!"
UMM Mam? Have you changed your password?
We should not report bank robbers if it's not true, anonymous, correct.
We should also report bank robberies to the police when it happens, not sue them four years later.
If the bank robber is your children's husband, we should also do everything we can to settle the dispute away from the public.
All that said, looking at a JOINT computer is hardly robbing a bank.
tion to dismiss filed":
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 19 Aug 12
@hiswife04 I'm writing fourth now.. On my iPhone as usual :)
Is this the act of a victim of cyberhacking?
Not only writing a book on the Iphone (uses wifi) but advertising it to the world.
&&&
Good catch. She's full of it. If she were so concerned about her phone being hacked why write her book on it?
Good catch. She's full of it. If she were so concerned about her phone being hacked why write her book on it?
************
This is like Kate tweeting which door even her dog can easily open.
How the heck do you actually write a book on a Iphone? Has to be part of her problem. Anyone out there know any serious/writers who work on an Iphone?
And, what pray tell, would this new book be about?
Jen said... 49
"I remember the episode where they were going to an amusement park and Cara was crying because she didn't want to wear whatever shoes Kate had demanded. Jon was going to let her wear flip-flops which is what she wanted to wear. Then Kate intervened and yelled at Jon about did he want them all losing their shoes??? Huh?"
This one isn't hard to understand. Flip flops can easily fall off a person's foot when going on rides, etc. In this case, I can understand her rationale.
__________________
I could too except in the end she allowed Cara to wear a pair of backless sandals, only a strap across the foot which makes the shoes no more secure on the feet than flip-flops. So all Kate accomplished was she got Cara to wear a pair of shoes dictated by Kate. Had nothing to do with safety of losing shoes on rides. The tups already had their sandals on, no whining to wear something else. Just dictator Kate in action once more with no rhyme no reason for what she did.
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 23 Oct 11
@MiloandJack @tklong4u and I wrote it on my iPhone! So funny and true!
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I wonder what publisher will nibble on book #4? This one is completely bombing. I can see that there may be a slight spike in sales before the holidays, but if Kate's full press media blitz couldn't generate much, the book is going to be in $1 stores in no time.
Who would touch that... unless Kate decides to cash in even more on her salacious divorce and post divorce drama.
Or, will it be about Shoka, the dog she gave away for year?
Tucker's Mom said... 51
It's stuff like this:
"Jon violated a federal anti-hacking statute in order to publish salacious, scandalous and defamatory information about Kate," said her lawyer A. Jordan Rushie. "It's damaged her reputation."
*********
When I read that quote, I am reminded of an episode of Seinfeld where the Oh Henry! heiress walked around wearing a bra with no top. Jackie Chiles: "It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!"
"Farting puppies" hehe
I think the comment about writing a new book is from last year, it says 19 August 12.
that makes IT companies say "no thanks" to hiring Jon, and makes me almost wish he's sue HER for the smear campaign she ignited
************************************************************************
God I would love that!
Kylie said... 63
I think the comment about writing a new book is from last year, it says 19 August 12.
****************************************************************************
I think that's the point. If she has been a victim of hacking and "continues" to be a victim of hacking since 4 yrs ago, why is she using an iphone? And good point about advertising it. How many celebs have had their smart phones hacked-nude pics being leaked to the tabs?
Vanessa said... 2
Yes, I agree. What they sometimes do though is "threaten" to hurt themselves. Another ploy and tactic to keep you as their narcissistic supply.
-----------------------
Agree. Had a narcissistic grandmother who was always "on the verge of death". Been hearing that for 20 years now (she's still alive by the way). Even got letters in the mail (certified no less) detailing her latest prognosis. Anything to get you sucked back into their world.
Narcissists aren't happy being in their world by themselves. They always pull some poor sap in, and they'll use drastic ways if necessary. So no, they will never actually commit suicide, and no, depression isn't common among them. Their world is perfect, as long as they're getting attention, and they always find some way of getting attention.
So no, TFW won't be depressed if this court case doesn't go her away, and she won't commit suicide. She'll probably invent a new world in which the lawsuit never happened, and she'll move onto the next attention getting ploy.
Regarding the flip flops at the amusement park......
TFW is obsessed with the kids "matching." If one twin wanted a different pair of shoes, then all of the kids would have to wear flip flops and the younger ones would be at a higher risk of losing their shoes. I recall that when the tups were 2 or 3, if one child spilled or messed up their outfit, she would change all 3 of that gender so they matched, and sometimes the other 3 as well if she was doing a group theme.
In the Sesame Place episode, she had all of the kids in orange shirts, and was wearing a yellow shirt. She was yelling at Jon because she wanted him to wear a red shirt (because yellow and red make orange *gag*) but criticized each choice. Shirt #1 had a flag on it and it wasn't even the Fourth if July, shirt #2 was a regular one with writing but it wasn't nice enough, and shirt #3 was a polo but it was more of a pink/salmon color so it wouldn't go with her theme. She then berates him for having "wardrobe issues" when she is clearly the one who masterminds the clothing for the whole family. I never understood why she was always having the kids wear "nice" clothes for outings when most moms would insist on play clothes that could get dirty without drama.
Turtle Logic
I thought book 4 was the cookbook. (1) Multiples (2) 8 Little Faces
(3) I Just Want You To Know (4) Crapbook , excuse me, Love is in the Mix.
Simple mistake or admission she didn't write the first one!
Capecodmama: congrats on your first win! Hope the Red Sox sweep the Cardinals!
Kate's cookbook is #4. Multiple Blessings, Eight Little Faces, I Want You to Know, Love Is In the Mix
I wonder what publisher will nibble on book #4? This one is completely bombing
*****************.
The cookbook was book four. I don't believe there is a new book. It was an old tweet.
I think the "new book" was the cookbook.
The cookbook was book four. I don't believe there is a new book. It was an old tweet.
****
Right, thanks. I think I just get mixed up with how many books she claims to have written, what with Beth Carson writing LIITM, and her second being a homemade photo album ;-)
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 19 Aug 12
@hiswife04 I'm writing fourth now.. On my iPhone as usual :)
and
I wonder what publisher will nibble on book #4? This one is completely bombing.
Book #4 is the just published cookbook. The tweet was from 2012. Hopefully she's DONE 'writing' books.
The tweets were from 2011 and 2012.....trying to show that if someone was concerned for the last FOUR YEARS about cyberhacking would they first, write their book on an Iphone and second, would they tell the whole world they were doing it on the Iphone.
The tweets are from 2011 and 2012.
Jeanne said... 200
I'm concerned about the kids being mentioned. You guys have been talking about how hard depositions are. If this continues, will Kate's attorney call them in for a deposition?
******
I see that someone else (a court reporter) already responded, and I agree that it's very, very unlikely any of the children will be deposed or otherwise asked to be involved in this lawsuit.
Considering how weak their case is, I think that TFW's attorneys should be having some frank talks with her about the chances that this case will a) be dismissed; b) have most of the allegations dismissed and the remaining case be very difficult to prove; and c) considering the possibility of dismissing the case entirely in exchange for agreement by the defendants that they will not seek their costs of suit/attorney's fees, etc. Each side to walk away basically.
Is Razzlefrazzle stupid? I don't think so. He may be arrogant, he may be full of himself, but I don't think he's an idiot. He has to realize that this case is a dog and the longer he remains involved, the more humiliating it will become. How does it benefit him to stick it out, besides whatever he is charging for his services? Attorneys, especially brash outspoken trial attorneys like Radichio, really hate to lose. That's what's going to happen in this case. He has to know it by now.
Also, I wanted to add that Kate claims to be working on another book. If she dares to write a book about Shoka, I hope PETA will get clips of Kate laughing about how her dogs would chew their way out of the crate, and how when they got off the property and were running around on the road, how Kate looked back, saw what happened and chose to drive away, leaving them there to get run over.
A couple housekeeping things that I'm getting a lot of. Please don't use the comments as a private email to me especially to ask why something wasn't posted. I may miss it or forget to reply. Private questions or anything else need to be emailed or I probably won't respond. Even so don't expect a long debate about why a comment wasn't published, it's hardly ever productive. Second we're getting a lot of comments posted and then a few minutes later a request to please not post that comment. Please don't create extra work for the staff. Don't hit post until you are sure. Or you can sign up for a free blogger account which gives you a trash can for any comments you regret. Thanks everyone!
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 29
Vanessa and others discussing this, I had read that narcissists don't have low self esteem or would consider suicide, but I did feel like the narcissist I know has very low self esteem at times. They always seemed to feel their career was going badly and blamed themselves, and did seem to blame themselves for their many failed relationships both romantic and otherwise. They would say things like I'm done no one wants me anymore, career wise and romantic wise. They would drink and go to bed at 8 o'clock and sleep until 10. It was actually sad at times. Maybe it was an act or an attempt to get sympathy. Not sure. It seemed pretty real to me. Who knows. I have always thought that Kate has similar low self esteem too, though I could be wrong. It's fascinating.
----------------------------
Not that I'm an expert or anything, but if it wasn't an act than they weren't a narcissist in the clinical sense. A narcissist would never (or hardly ever) recognize their wrong doings. Instead they make up a world in which no wrongdoings occurred, or if they did occur, it wasn't the narcissist's fault.
I would peg it as fake sympathy. Either that or another disorder (histrionic personality disorder is a doozy, it takes the "it's all my fault" to an extreme).
Anything to get you sucked back into their world.
*****
So true. Dated a NPD and it was truly a mentally abusive experience, and hard as it is to believe, a tough relationship to leave-- for good. Like, not even going to look back again, have a nice life kind of leave.
I've thought, and still do think, that Kate doesn't let go of her Jon drama because it draws eyeballs. If she is not longer the victim, then who wants to watch.
A woman raising kids? Yawn.
Espionage, identity theft and computer hacking are so much sexier.
The way I saw a vanity book written WAS over the phone. In countless phone calls to the ghost writer and hours of recorded conversations. Not a word of it was actually written by the author. Lol. So yes a book can be "written" on an iPhone hehe.
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 19 Aug 12
@hiswife04 I'm writing fourth now.. On my iPhone as usual :)
If HCI publishes this 4th book it's confirmation that this was some sort of self-publishing deal. I don't care that they said this book wasn't self-published. It had to have been or they're masochists.
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 19 Aug 12
@hiswife04 I'm writing fourth now.. On my iPhone as usual :)
AND WHAT COULD SHE POSSIBLY WRITE ABOUT?! She doesn't even have anything interesting to say on a two minute talk show segment. How would she fill a book?!?!
"And then...I'm so great, just wait 'til you read this next part...I went onto google...aren't I so fantastic...and I typed in "how to cook"...I'm a genius...and I stole this next part from there! Yay for me!!!"
I never understood why she was always having the kids wear "nice" clothes for outings when most moms would insist on play clothes that could get dirty without drama.
------------------------
Because 1. She wasn't the one actually cleaning the clothes at the end of the day (just consigning them) 2. A lot of times they would get paid, or get free merchandise, if they worse certain brands out and about and on the show and 3. It was a way to attract attention. If they wore different things, passersby might not notice there were SIX of them!
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 79
A couple housekeeping things
--------------------
That reminds me, I'm late to the party, but hello new pool girl! We're happy to have you on board!
If (when?) Kate drops or loses this lawsuit, I predict she will say it was for the kids and deflect the fact that her allegations were never proven.
I remember (still with much disbelief) that her sycophants were all high-fiving and fist bumping over Kate's "winning" her case with LaFair. Kate actually lost and was ordered to pay 10K, but dug her heels in and LaFair walked away (good for her).
But Kate's mantra was "no never means no" and never corrected all the people who said that she won.
It was surreal to witness, and frightening in a way, that people could live in an alternate reality.
Regarding the question of narcissists and suicide, my father-in-law committed suicide at age 72. It was the result of the confluence of events, brought on by his own actions, that put him into such a crisis state, he took his own life. His suicide note was disjointed and incoherent--he was a very successful engineer in his professional life. He certainly met the criteria for that diagnoses.
The new diagnostic manual has changed the classification of NPD as a member of the cluster group of disorders that come the diagnosis of personality disorder. I think that this is a much better way to regard the disorder, as it acknowledges overlap with other similar, related characteristics. Some of the older articles are using outdated descriptions as their criteria.
From psych central.com:
http://pro.psychcentral.com/2013/dsm-5-changes-personality-disorders-axis-ii/005008.html#
"A new hybrid personality model was introduced in the DSM-5′s Section III (disorders requiring further study) that included evaluation of impairments in personality functioning (how an individual typically experiences himself or herself as well as others) plus five broad areas of pathological personality traits. In the new proposed model, clinicians would assess personality and diagnose a personality disorder based on an individual’s particular difficulties in personality functioning and on specific patterns of those pathological traits.
The hybrid methodology retains six personality disorder types:
Borderline Personality Disorder
Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder
Avoidant Personality Disorder
Schizotypal Personality Disorder
Antisocial Personality Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
I never understood why she was always having the kids wear "nice" clothes for outings when most moms would insist on play clothes that could get dirty without drama
__________________________________________
When J+K+8 started Kate was getting free name brand clothes. After the kids wore the clothes she would put the clothes on consignment and sell them. She wanted the kids to look clean at all times to show that she was a good mother but the same time she didn't want the kids to get their clothes dirty. Its hard to sell clothes that have stains on them.
Remember the episode where they went out for ice cream and afterwords the kids were having fun rolling down the grassy knoll. Kate went ballistic and told the kids to stop. That was when she was selling their free clothes.
Also, I wanted to add that Kate claims to be working on another book.
I don't remember her saying this recently, but if she did, I interpret it the same as when she tells her tweeties that exciting things are coming or there's lots of interest in the family for another show or her 'foot' is broken - it's just her exaggerating and keeping them on the hook. Other than in her dreams, I don't think she has anything in the works.
Winsomeone said... 91
If she loses, I would like to see something like a public apology to Jon from her.
&&&&&&&&
LOL Yeah, THAT'S gonna happen.
PatK said... 92
Winsomeone said... 91
If she loses, I would like to see something like a public apology to Jon from her.
&&&&&&&&
LOL Yeah, THAT'S gonna happen.
*******
Her lawyer didn't know how to help her. TLC, can we sue?
TLC?
TLC?
Helloooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
Crickets
I guess I understand her motivations for dressing the tups alike in fancy clothes, but then I compare her to the mom in Table for 12 whose kids wore mostly hand-me-downs or thrift store clothes and only matched for special occasions, with far less yelling and panicking over spills and stains.
OT, Silimom, is Kate's Basic Bread (Maker) Recipe in the cookbook? Does it seem very different from other bread maker recipes, especially the ones in the booklet that comes with the bread maker? Just curious how "developed" this particular recipe is......
Turtle Logic
Catching up with reading comments. The Motion to Dismiss alone must have cost Kate a boat load of money! The research that was done, the writing of the actual MTD, the traveling hours, plane fare, car rental, hotel, and meals just for Shawn Tuma to show up to court. And are his 3 friends from Dallas ? What are their expenses??
Kate is going to have to pick up the tab if the case is dismissed or if she loses the lawsuit.
I agree with some that this whole lawsuit is about the book. What else can Robert have on her that is worse then child/animal abuse?? Whatever it is must be horrific.
And I disagree with Silimom I think the book might actually sell more than the first one because it's gotten more publicity . It's also going to depend if the talk shows will have Robert on. Time will tell but I bought the first and I will buy the new one.
Welcome new pool girl !! I'm sure you have a lovely name!
This lawsuit is such an obvious ploy to make it impossible for Jon to find work. TFW is claiming hacking, etc, and has no proof. Without proof that he is the one doing it (or that anyone is doing it), she files this piece of crap. knowing that he won't be able to work in IT with charges like that pending against him.She made sure he lost a previous job my making him leave to deal with the kids when he should have been working. Now he found hisr estaurant job, and she is doing her best to destroy that, too. Is there any other reason her lawyers are calling him at work? What could they possibly have to discuss with him that can't wait until after he gets home? And why are her lawyers calling him? Shouldn't all communication go through his lawyer? TFW is pulling the strings, and she wants him fired. She will not leave him alone until he is completely unemployable, destitute, and living on the street.
Please, no one say she'll be on another talk show. I honestly don't think I can stand her begging for a television show again. I mean it is getting ridiculous. How many years can you say the same thing over and over again. How many times can they ask "How's Jon''? "How are the kids doing"? " Do you regret putting your kids on T.V."? "Do the kids miss the crew"? "Do you talk to your ex husband"? "Where did all the money go"? "Are you dating"? Lets see..did I leave anything out? OMG..just writing that gave me a headache. This woman will make you physically ill.
She had to get the help of BV and all her fans so she pretended she was concerned about internet bullying in general to get them to attack and out people so she could obtain what she needed.
====
She sure latched onto that one. She really thought she was smart by teaming up with BV man thinking together they would bring Jon down. Where is he now? Oh that's right. *poof* Gone. That's what happens when one narcissist turns to another narcissist for help. Two scorpions in a cage, only one will emerge alive.
I'm so glad the karma train pulled into the station. She's been walking around truly believing she's untouchable. She thinks all she has to do is utter the three magic words "can we sue" and everything will turn out fine for her. How long did she think she could go on doing that?
Insert Creative Username Here said... 68
She'll probably invent a new world in which the lawsuit never happened, and she'll move onto the next attention getting ploy.
====
Apparently, in spite of an intensive exploration, Hubble still hasn't come across her planet.
First off, just want to say Welcome Aboard to the new assistant. You have your hands full with this bunch. ;) I mean that in a good way of course.
Second, thanks to everyone for breaking down the legal jargon for those of us (meaning me in particular) who has trouble wrapping their heads around it.
Finally, and totally OT (out there/off topic), I wanted to ask my fellow posters here...
What would you do if you had the house to yourself for 4 whole days?
Hubby is taking Daughter to a Comic Book convention in Halifax in a couple of weeks and I have the place to myself...well, except for 4 cats.
No spouse, no kids, no work (I am Hubby's assistant and if he isn't working neither am I) and no obligations...again, other than cat bowl and box patrol.
This is the first time in my 20 years of marriage that I have this much ME time on the horizon and part of me is a little nervous about how I'm going to fill the hours.
I've already frozen enough leftovers/meals that I won't have to cook for myself...just reheat (How do I do that Kate? Snark!) and eat. My BFF and I have a thrift store excursion/lunch date planned.
Other than that though, I'm seriously wondering what to do with myself with the rest of the time.
I'd very sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions. And yes, I have Netflix. :P
Thanks.
TFW used to a control freak over the kids' hair, too. Each tup girl had her own length until her meltdown when Hannah wanted her long hair cut. Now I think they all have the same length- flat-ironed each AM, of course! The twins also have similar lengths now, but I recall one episode where Cara was crying about the haircut her mom made her get.And who could forget the torture session when she made all the tup girls get corn rows in OBX, and Mady a hair wrap she didn't want.
I think the kids wear different play clothes now , though. Maybe they stood up for themselves or actually use the hand-me-downs from Jamie.I remember I think last year's back to school photo, Collin was the only boy in a maroon polo shirt.I think TFW has had to give a little on the clothing 'masterminding' or doesn''t care if no money for her is involved from freebies and consignment.
Ideas for Sheri: nap, read a whole book, spa trip, movie, mindless window shopping. Repeat. Oh, and enjoy.
@ Sheri
Chapters, good cup of coffee or tea, book/magazine on your lap?
Sheri, I hope you enjoy every minute of your "me" time.
I like projects. I have used no-one-is-home-but-me time to paint rooms or scrape off old wallpaper. I could make a mess and no one had to suffer through but me.
Staying up late reading a book while snacking in bed and then sleeping in the next morning are also sweet indulgences!
Sheri,
Here are my suggestions:
1. ManiPedi or general spa day.
2. See a matinee
3. Any museums in the area?
4. Binge watch if you can stream a good series.
Very quiet on Kate's twitter today which is becoming the norm.
If any of our legal eagles here are reading, I'm now confused, again! Someone tweeted that Shawn's first motion to dismiss was denied. Does anyone know anything about that?
I have a legal question for anyone who knows....
Should TFW decide to drop her lawsuit, can Robert & Jon's attorneys do something to prevent her from filing again 'when the time is right'?
Even if she drops the lawsuit, can they ask the court to prevent her from making the same claims on her blog or twitter or anywhere?
Sheri said…
What would you do if you had the house to yourself for 4 whole days?
====================
I had the luxury myself for 3 days this summer...
I made wine & popcorn my dinner if I felt like it. Watched documentaries recommended by posters here. Had "girl" friends over for dinner & more wine. Turned the bedroom TV, or the reading lamp on in the middle of the night if I wanted to. Spent more time here on 15 Minutes than usual, without having to explain why I care about anything to do with the Gosselins.
Mostly I stayed in, so I wouldn't miss a minute of it. Enjoy!!
Hubby is taking Daughter to a Comic Book convention in Halifax in a couple of weeks and I have the place to myself...well, except for 4 cats.
***************
Go to your local shelter and adopt another cat? A black one for Halloween? Shelters are up to their necks in kittens and cats who need good homes!
Posted today:
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/corey-feldman-book-memoir-coreyography-stage-mom/
Corey Feldman Reveals How ‘Dangerous’ Stage Mom ‘Sucked The Life From’ Him During Torturous Childhood — Read His Book Excerpt
Corey Feldman‘s sordid life of drug abuse and sexual assault are revealed as never before in his new memoir, Coreyography. But was his mother to blame for it all? In a book excerpt obtained by RadarOnline.com, Feldman describes how his “dangerous” stage mom “sucked the life” out of him through calculated, controlling, and disturbing behavior.
So sad..money fame isn't everything after all.
91999
admin please go read that ROL article when you have time. Sounds all to familiar and will break your heart. It's too long to bring here.
91999
Someone tweeted that Shawn's first motion to dismiss was denied. Does anyone know anything about that?
There has been no ruling on any motion to dismiss yet. The 2nd motion to dismiss (based on the amended complaint by TFW) was just submitted on Tues.
She sure latched onto that one. She really thought she was smart by teaming up with BV man thinking together they would bring Jon down.
***************
Raz represented BV in his lawsuit against Moore. I bet Kate was impressed by the fact that he was awarded $250,000, but never did any research to find out that it was a default judgment.
If any of our legal eagles here are reading, I'm now confused, again! Someone tweeted that Shawn's first motion to dismiss was denied. Does anyone know anything about that?
*****
Kate's lawyer responded to the MTD by dropping about 2/3 of the allegations.
I thought that's what Tuma would have to fight in court, but he came back with his second MTD.
Amazing.
I think that a lot of what is interpreted as TFW's evil wishes to destroy others, is more a manifestation of her increasingly delusional need to seek validation for her distorted reality from the outside world.
If she can get a court to say that someone else interfered with her destiny to be a star, then her constructed reality will be validated.
She is really a very sick person. It is very easy to focus on the small ways she tries to control everyone else, ie flip flops, because it seems so silly. TFW has a very low ability to tolerate normal fluctuations of behavior in others, because, no matter how small the behavior, it causes an incongruence (cognitive dissonance) that doesn't fit her personal narrative. So seemingly insignificant events, like one kid refusing to cooperate, somehow throws her entire universe off it's orbit.
IMO, many of the things we discuss here is motivated by her need to get her world back in balance--in order to feel safe. We all need that, and we all seek validation from the outside world, which helps us feel safe.
I really do feel sorry for her. I really think that there must have been a serious trauma or abuse to have caused her to construct a false reality.
It's interesting how Mr. Tuma is following the tweeter Goody2shoes (and she him) since she has slammed Jon over and over and wished a coma on him. Shawn was nice enough to comment on her clear mamogram.
Kindle took away my copy of the old book. Is there anyway I can get a copy now? I want to read it again to contrast and compare. Any ideas would be appreciated. Can someone send it to me?
91999
Sheri - enjoy your alone time. Maybe head start on the Christmas shopping and wrapping, pick up a great book, get a mani/pedi,a new hair style or color, enjoy nice glass or 3 of wine, luxurious bubble bath and a new body lotion, light a candle while watching tv that maybe isn't one your husband would love but you do, new facial mask or something you'd never do when hubby is around, learn a new craft (I'm learning crochet-hope to get good enough to make some cute baby hats to sell and for future grandchildren). Plan a nice family dinner for when they do come home, meanwhile indulge in a favorite food for yourself, me that would be some shrimp or a big lobster, and a few pieces of really good chocolate like Godiva, scrapbook some family pics or make a video of family pictures and add music, clean out all the junk you've been wanting to toss, but husband prefers to "hold on to". LOL on the last one. Set a limit, like 2 hours and force yourself to clean something you normally hate to do, like clean a junk drawer, pantry, linen closet - one of those no so fun things then you'll really enjoy the rest of your MEMEME all mine time. :)
@FireyTopaz1
@MiloandJack @SiobhanR111 @Kateplusmy8 Have you read @ShawnETuma 's SECOND MOTION to DISMISS yet, Milo? Great read!!
How funny would it be that while we've been discussing the points in the new motion to dismiss, that TFW hasn't any idea what it says?! lol
Her attorney was handed the papers at the conference on Tues. He probably didn't go over it with her then. They probably went on their separate ways when it was over with plans to review everything later this week or next. It's very possible they've not even talked about it yet. For some reason that is making me lol.
Kate is going to have to pick up the tab if the case is dismissed or if she loses the lawsuit.
*******************
Not necessarily...it depends on the outcome of the case. If she loses, she COULD be responsible for his attorney's fees, but that doesn't always happen. It's not a given. If it's dismissed, I'm not so sure that attorney's fees are always awarded. A federal judge denied Sarah Palin‘s request for more than $22,000 in attorney fees in a case against her that was dismissed. I believe that the defendants have to file a motion for fees and cite a statute that allows for the recovery of attorney's fees. Fees aren't automatically awarded.
Ingrid said... 117
It's interesting how Mr. Tuma is following the tweeter Goody2shoes (and she him) since she has slammed Jon over and over and wished a coma on him. Shawn was nice enough to comment on her clear mamogram.
October 24, 2013 at 12:58 PM
*******
I saw that. I don't know what kind of passive aggressive mind-f*c! is being played here...
I would like to comment on Kate's fans. At first I didn't really have a opinion one way or another. Then I thought some of their tweets were kind of funny. From there I went to I felt sorry for them. They reminded me of an abused wife. Kate scams them for gifts, doesn't thank them or acknowledge them, even ignores them, and yet they stick around!
But after Kate confessed that she abused her kids and dogs through her journals her adoring fans make me sick! And they call us creepy?? Actually creepy is nice compared to a person who abuses babies and dogs. And what are you Em? I don't care if you are young or old you should know better, and if you don't maybe you should go buy a dictionary and look up the word ABUSE. Stupidty is no excuse!
Sorry, but I'm tired of Kate's fans throwing their insults at people who dedicate their time to protect the innocent. And don't give me that crap that some of her fans are young, they are not 5! If they don't learn now when will they???
91999, you did get your Kindle copy from Amazon, right? You should be able to go back and see your order.
I can still access the book.
Ingrid said... 117
It's interesting how Mr. Tuma is following the tweeter Goody2shoes (and she him) since she has slammed Jon over and over and wished a coma on him. Shawn was nice enough to comment on her clear mamogram.
_________
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ... and all.
I wonder if Steve has a big insurance policy on kate in case something happened to her. He knows she drives 80 to 100 mph. He could really cash in. kate needs to hire a forensic accountant to look at the corporations that she and Steve put together. You can't trust anyone these days.
He may be the preverbal wolf in sheep's clothing.
Speaking of popcorn, Walgreens has the Orville Redenbacher popcorn pop up bowls on sale this week. 3 in a pack for 1.99. I love them.
Kindle took away my copy of the old book. Is there anyway I can get a copy now? I want to read it again to contrast and compare. Any ideas would be appreciated. Can someone send it to me?
**********************
How odd. Mine's still there.
TFW has a very low ability to tolerate normal fluctuations of behavior in others,
====================
Man, you got that right! More like NO ability.
Tucker's Mom said... 122
Ingrid said... 117
It's interesting how Mr. Tuma is following the tweeter Goody2shoes (and she him) since she has slammed Jon over and over and wished a coma on him. Shawn was nice enough to comment on her clear mamogram.
October 24, 2013 at 12:58 PM
*******
I saw that. I don't know what kind of passive aggressive mind-f*c! is being played here...
------------------------------
If it was me who had been goody I would be very nervous.
Sheri I hope you enjoy your me-weekend! You have gotten some good ideas for things to do. The first time my kids were gone for a whole week to their dad's, I was so excited about having a quiet house, time for me. I really got bored and realized that no matter how stressful it is with 3 kids in the house I preferred the noise and feeling needed.
Kindle took away my copy of the old book. Is there anyway I can get a copy now? I want to read it again to contrast and compare. Any ideas would be appreciated. Can someone send it to me?
Log into your account at Amazon and you should see the Kindle books you've downloaded. Robert's book should be there for you to re-download. Mine is still on my account and I can re-dl if I need to.
Mr. Tuma doesn't know the whole history of the fans or who is who really. He's abundantly polite to everyone.
Anon 118 - are you sure you can't find your book? I thought that happened to me, but I went to my Kindle Account @ Amazon, "Your Kindle Library" and on the right there is a drop down box, "Actions" drop down box, "read now" and it's there. I don't have a Kindle, but use the Kindle for PC and I also used the Kindle PC converter to save it to a PDF file. Hope this helps.
If Amazon did take the book back, did they give you a refund?
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ... and all.
******
I have a feeling he knows exactly who Goody is-- the person who wished Jon could be in a horrific accident, followed by a 6-month coma.
If that isn't threatening, I don't know what is.
Maybe Tuma's got Goody in his sights.
If it was me who had been goody I would be very nervous.
*******
May be why Goody is trying to butter him up...
"Who me? Little old me? A threat to your client, Jon Gosselin?"
Dot said... 131
Mr. Tuma doesn't know the whole history of the fans or who is who really. He's abundantly polite to everyone.
October 24, 2013 at 1:33 PM
*****
Oh, I bet he's had an eyeful of the Jon haters that Kate allows to troll her site. After all, Kate's said this case is about bullying and accused Jon of being some sort of ring leader. So, I'd think that Tuma has been monitoring Kate's twitter to see just how many of her sycophants "bully" Jon and wish him PHYSICAL HARM.
Oh, he knows, yes he does.
RealZiggyFlo@RealZiggyFlo18m
@Kateplusmy8 People need 2 b VERY cautious of the disinformation being spread re lawsuit - and there is >MUCH< disinformation being spouted
&&&&&&&&
There you have it folks. Apparently she's privy to the inner workings of this lawsuit.
Ingrid said... 130
Sheri I hope you enjoy your me-weekend! You have gotten some good ideas for things to do. The first time my kids were gone for a whole week to their dad's, I was so excited about having a quiet house, time for me. I really got bored and realized that no matter how stressful it is with 3 kids in the house I preferred the noise and feeling needed.
***
LOL, you described me Ingrid. I do really value my "me time," but I am usually very satisfied with an afternoon or evening to myself, then I want my son back home. However, I'm approaching empty nest in less than 3 years and am trying to prepare.
That's another thing that separate TFW from most moms - while we can get frazzled or feel a need for some peace and quiet, we still miss our children and are so very happy to be back home with them. Whereas, I think TFW really does not like spending time with her children and can't wait to be away from them. So sad.
Tucker's Mom said... 136
''......So, I'd think that Tuma has been monitoring Kate's twitter to see just how many of her sycophants "bully" Jon and wish him PHYSICAL HARM.
Oh, he knows, yes he does.''
~~~~~~~~~
You bet Tuma knows. It was TFW's twitter timeline that Tuma was tweeting about the lawsuit, and how that very thing was his 'thing'. He tweeted over and over about the lawsuit. If I were 2shoes, I'd be thinking about all her emails that are in Robert's book, and all her tweets to TFW that are so awful. If she has two working brain cells, she would be careful. But then again, how can she possibly have two working brain cells since she believes every word that TFW says?
PatK (137)
Ziggy doesn't know anything about the lawsuit. She is one of the most delusional of the sheeple, and she is always begging the rest of the flock to deny reality where TFW is concerned. She's always good for a laugh, though. She blathered on for months after K+8 ended about TFW having something big in the works. Hahahaha, we're still waiting to hear what that "something big" is. And then when TFW was planning the cruise, Ziggy said that the cruise must be selling really well for the non-fans to pay so much attention to it. Actually, the non-fans were laughing at the absurdity of anyone wanting to cruise with TFW, and guess who was right? Yeah, the non-fans, that's who. She knows TFW is a huge failure in all she does, but loves to encourage the other fans to ignore reality and live in a dream world where TFW will someday rise up and become massively rich and famous, and all the non-fans will hang their heads in shame. In that happy little fantasy land in Ziggy's head, TFW is always queen.
<=====BTW - For your Breaking Bad fans, isn't this the greatest Jack-O-Lantern ever!
RE-POST! If Mr. Tuma is following Ms. Goodie he can see all of her tweets. Wasn't it just yesterday or the day before that she was once again slamming Jon for being friends with Robert?
Don't you sometimes hate auto correct?
PatK said... 137 RealZiggyFlo@RealZiggyFlo18m
@Kateplusmy8 People need 2 b VERY cautious of the disinformation being spread re lawsuit - and there is >MUCH< disinformation being spouted
&&&&&&&&
There you have it folks. Apparently she's privy to the inner workings of this lawsuit.
~~~~~~~
I believe I know what they are thinking. When they saw SECOND motion to dismiss, they assumed that the first motion to dismiss was denied, requiring a second motion to dismiss.
They didn't grasp that the first motion to dismiss resulted in Razzamatazz amending the lawsuit, dropping some allegations. Tuma then filed the second motion to dismiss their amended lawsuit.
If I'm wrong in my supposition, feel free to correct me.
Has anyone come up with the answer to my question about what Tuma can do if TFW drops the lawsuit? Can he file for something to prevent her from filing again? Can he get a ruling for her to not repeat anything she has charged in the lawsuit on twiter/blogs/anywhere?
Sheri - There have been a lot of good suggestions posted to help you enjoy your alone time. Here are some things that might bring you peace and calm: If the weather is nice, go hiking or just take a long walk or bike ride. Breathe in fresh air. Find someplace wonderful to watch a sunrise or sunset. Gaze at the stars.
I hope you have a relaxing few days!
Wow Sheri, what a treat for you after 20 years. I think the anticipation will be half the fun giving these weeks leading up to this long weekend a bit of a boost as well.
You've gotten many good ideas (I especially liked High Sodium Contents thoughtful post @119) and I've only got one more to add. If you're a sports lover, tune into one of the many college or pro football games...the seasons are at the point where they're beginning to separate the wheat from the chaff. My beloved Fighting Irish could always use another fan.
If I'm wrong in my supposition, feel free to correct me.
Has anyone come up with the answer to my question about what Tuma can do if TFW drops the lawsuit? Can he file for something to prevent her from filing again? Can he get a ruling for her to not repeat anything she has charged in the lawsuit on twiter/blogs/anywhere?
********
I *think* that if it get dismissed with prejudice (?) that Kate can not bring the charges again. Or is it without prejudice? Anyway, from what I've read here, it's something like double jeopardy. Jon can't get slammed with the accusations again.
The Good Wife, I am not ;-)
Remona Blue said... 144
I believe I know what they are thinking. When they saw SECOND motion to dismiss, they assumed that the first motion to dismiss was denied, requiring a second motion to dismiss.
They didn't grasp that the first motion to dismiss resulted in Razzamatazz amending the lawsuit, dropping some allegations. Tuma then filed the second motion to dismiss their amended lawsuit.
_______________
Makes sense to me but the person who said the motion was denied said something about there can only be one motion to dismiss per side. However, that doesn't mean Tuma's first motion was denied. It's coming from someone who has a blog about Real Housewives! I'm sure she knows. LOL
Tucker's Mom said... 134
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ... and all.
******
I have a feeling he knows exactly who Goody is-- the person who wished Jon could be in a horrific accident, followed by a 6-month coma.
If that isn't threatening, I don't know what is.
Maybe Tuma's got Goody in his sights.
====
And just by coincidence, she'll now be "away" for a few days.
MsGoody2Shoes21 @msgoody2shoes21 2h
Gonna be away for a few days. Probably until Monday afternoon.
Away or just twitter absent?
PatK said... 137 RealZiggyFlo@RealZiggyFlo18m
@Kateplusmy8 People need 2 b VERY cautious of the disinformation being spread re lawsuit - and there is >MUCH< disinformation being spouted
*****************************
And? What is the disinformation? Is disinformation even a word? Maybe Zig meant "misinformation." Nothing to back up this statement, Zig is having an Oz moment. "Pay no attention to the brilliant lawyer who dismantled Kate's meritless lawsuit."
I am still basking in the glow of the fact that Kate cannot claim invasion of privacy unless she admits the journal is hers and it was unaltered. There's the laws that regularish, unimportant people who are not on teevee have to follow, then there's Kate laws. These laws are all bent and contorted to mold to whichever way Kate wants the law to benefit her. Things look terribly bleak for her, yet I still say there is no way in hell she will voluntarily drop this. Which is why I'm praying for dismissal. Someone asked about her appealing if it's dropped. The teen mom was given a penalty if she tried to appeal. I think if she tried to appeal, the sanctions she received would be doubled.
Ziggy doesn't know anything about the lawsuit. She is one of the most delusional of the sheeple, and she is always begging the rest of the flock to deny reality where TFW is concerned. She's always good for a laugh, though.
I was going to say "dumbest" but delusional works, too. I still haven't figured out the pecking order among sheeple, starting with the ones who are slowest on the uptake to the ones who are semi-intelligent.
You're right, though. Ziggy is always good for a laugh. I do pity her sometimes, though, when she really seems totally out of it.
I'd like to know what disinformation too. Disinformation is a word but it implies you are intentionally trying to deceive. Who has been deceptive? The legal eagles here are simply sharing from their own past experiences and almost all the information has comes from the actual briefs themselves. There's not much more to add that Shawn didn't spell out himself in black and white. I think they may be unwilling to accept Shawn ripped Kate's arguments to absolute shreds and that this lawsuit is falling flat on its face, but that's different than accusing people of misrepresenting what's going on.
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 41m
Sharing another after dinner sunset over Gosselin Land with you.. It's beautiful! pic.twitter.com/yx7kMFeeZs
Amanda Iowa says:Gosselin Land (really?)......echoes of :" Mine....all Mine," in my head!
And what are you Em? I don't care if you are young or old you should know better, and if you don't maybe you should go buy a dictionary and look up the word ABUSE. Stupidty is no excuse!
------
Did Emily do something that I missed?
Oh now she's farting sunsets.
Gosselin land. Is that anything like that exploitive zoo called Quintland?
Ingrid said ...130
Sheri I hope you enjoy your me-weekend!
______________________
Ingrid - I think you have just coined a new phrase: the me-kend!
______________________
Auntie Ann said ...
Hey Kate. You're not so tough without your TLC lawyers. Are ya?
_________________________
Ha, Auntie! It's kind of embarrassing that I know this is a take-off from another Kindergarten Cop line. Clever girl!
(I'm still laughing at everyone's "It's not a Tuma!")
___________________________
Clairvoyant trojan horse - Love the name!
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 152
I'd like to know what disinformation too. Disinformation is a word but it implies you are intentionally trying to deceive.
------------------
RealZiggyFlo @RealZiggyFlo 2h
@CandyDishes Example #1: Kate wasn't required to be at the hearing & wasn't there. Hearing was for lawyers only.
Well we agree the PtC was for attorneys only and everyone who attended had to wait outside. So she's got someone telling her she wasn't there. Fair enough. That's a rather inconsequential detail since no one was allowed inside anyway. Shrug.
Did I miss something? Did anyone infer that Kate was at the hearing?
Mr. Tuma doesn't know the whole history of the fans or who is who really. He's abundantly polite to everyone.
----------------------
Oh, I'm willing to bet he knows the history of quite a few of the fans, especially if he's read Robert's book.
I just looked back at the email I posted and if you read it carefully they don't actually say Kate was there. Only that Kate wasn't allowed inside. That could just as easily mean they were told Kate wouldn't have been allowed IF she showed up, but she didn't actually show. My source didn't talk about Kate. So there's that "disinformation." Or maybe THEIR source Is wrong or lying. Unless they were there how could they know.
91999 -- Once you've purchased a Kindle book, it is yours. Go to the Kindle store on Amazon, click on "manage my Kindle". From there you should be able to pull up the book and download it again. You can also go into your account, pull up the order, and download it from there, but it's easier to do from "manage my Kindle". If it doesn't work, then you can live chat with Kindle support and they'll help you.
Gosselin Land? Really? To paraphrase the lyrics from "Peter Pan":
I have a place where dreams are born,
And time is always planned.
Just check it on the chart,
You must find it with your heart.
Gosselin Gosselin Land.
It might be miles beyond the moon,
Or right there where you stand.
Just make sure you always mind,
And then suddenly you'll find
Gosselin Gosselin Land
You'll have a treasure if you stay here,
But you must do what you are told,
For once you have found your way here,
You can never, never grow old.
And that's MY home where dreams are born,
And time is always planned.
Just think of lovely things.
And MY heart will fly on wings,
Forever in Gosselin Gosselin Land.
Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said... 148
''......the person who said the motion was denied said something about there can only be one motion to dismiss per side. However, that doesn't mean Tuma's first motion was denied.
~~~~~~~~
I know nothing about legalities, but unlike the tweeter, I have no problem admitting that. My questions are the questions from someone that is asking someone on this blog that does know the answer.
Perhaps the 'only one motion to dismiss per side' could mean that Tuma filed a motion to dismiss. (One) Razamatazz amended the law suit, and Tuma filed a motion to dismiss for the amended suit. (One.) In other words, one motion to dismiss for each?
My other question was not if the Judge granted the motion to dismiss. I understand that the Judge can dismiss w/prejudice, which would stop her from trying again another time.
I was asking if TFMJG dropped the case before a Judge ruled on anything, can Tuma then file for something or the other to prevent her from re-filing at another time? Can Tuma ask the Judge to order her to not repeat any of her claims again on twitter/television/radio/blog or anywhere?
I freely admit that these may be stupid questions to anyone with knowledge about legal things, but I'm still going to ask.
RealZiggyFlo @RealZiggyFlo 2h
@CandyDishes Example #1: Kate wasn't required to be at the hearing & wasn't there. Hearing was for lawyers only.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 157
Well we agree the PtC was for attorneys only and everyone who attended had to wait outside. So she's got someone telling her she wasn't there. Fair enough. That's a rather inconsequential detail since no one was allowed inside anyway. Shrug.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Umm.... yeah this was covered quite thoroughly since we learned there was going to be a pth on the 22nd. Many, many of the legal eagles here pointed out that Jon, Robert and Kate did not need to attend this hearing. Therefore, any disinformation being disseminated about whether Kate attended or not did not originate here.
Who in the bleep is this person?
CHINA EL ZODIVULKAN @Vector64China 1h
@Kateplusmy8 things which are round should be rounds for many times ahead in the roundness of ways all their days.
CHINA EL ZODIVULKAN @Vector64China 2h
@Kateplusmy8 knees placed the prime mover to a surprising 2 PM connection: emotion emotion gets round twice>
And this one?
Dai Trang Le @DaiTrangLe1 1h
Kate Gosselin Facebook and Kate Gosselin Plus 8 Address 8342 Westminster Blvd Apt # 6 Westminster CA:92683 and Kate Plus 8 (714)893-4687
If you think about it, there is only one MTD. The first MTD is based on the first complaint, which was subsequently amended. The second MTD is based on the amended complaint and is the only one which needs to be addressed by the court.
But then again, I could be totally off base. :)
Is there an example number two of "disinformation" or is that it?
As far as the old motion to dismiss one of my first thoughts actually was that the new motion would step in the shoes of the old. The old one is moot since it addresses so many allegations Kate's side agreed to get rid of. It makes sense to get rid of it and substitute in the new motion. Same for Kate's suit. Her old moving papers with her initial complaint should be replaced with her new amended complaint. It's just LOGISTICS.
This happens all the time in briefing cases. If there is a new, amended or updated brief, it will often "stand in the shoes" of the old one. For petitions in my court, if there is a new one, the first one is always "dismissed" at the same time the amended petition is "filed." It's normal and has nothing to do with the merits of the case. It's really an organizational thing. It can get confusing to have three petitions or three motions all called the same thing. The newest motion always steps in the shoes of the one before it, that keeps things easy to understand.
I almost feel embarrassed for them, desperately trying to do all this spin over completely inconsequential issues, like whether some old moot brief has been dismissed and whether Kate was at some hearing she didn't even need to be at. Who cares? How about addressing the MERITS of the case instead of throwing out these desperate red herrings that make Kate look WEAK?
Kirkland nope that's right on the money! :) The old motion to dismiss is no longer necessary since even Kate's side admits the whole complaint it was based on is changed up now. Shawn rightly and properly drafted a new motion based on an entirely new complaint. All very normal and inconsequential stuff here.
TFW's picture of the sunset over "Gosselin Land"...hmmm, she has never referred to her property as Gosselin Land before. How coincidental that on Duck Dynasty, the reality show that recently posted higher ratings than K+8's highest-rated episode, frequently shows the family hunting and fishing on "Robertson Land". The Robertson Land caption is always on the bottom of the screen when they do. I wonder if she will now start posting pictures of the boys wearing camo gear and tromping around in the woods. She is desperate for a reality show, and she can see that Duck Dynasty has the winning formula.
Or maybe THEIR source Is wrong or lying. Unless they were there how could they know.
-------------
Source? Milo? LOL! She knows everything there is to know about Kate, and then some. They communicate in so many ways. I don't even want to know what those ways are.
I was asking if TFMJG dropped the case before a Judge ruled on anything, can Tuma then file for something or the other to prevent her from re-filing at another time? Can Tuma ask the Judge to order her to not repeat any of her claims again on twitter/television/radio/blog or anywhere?
&&&
Maybe someone else can chime in. My answer is I don't know, it depends on whether the case goes to trial or if it doesn't go to trial whether that jurisdiction allows cases to be dismissed "with prejudice" (they can never file again) without first going to trial. In my area of law, civil in CA a case that never even goes to trial legally cannot be dismissed "with prejudice." It absolute requires a trial, even if that trial was 10 seconds long. Once the first person opens their mouth in a trial at that moment "with prejudice" becomes an option. If you never make it that far, with prejudice is NOT an option. If someone says a CA case is dismissed with prejudice but there was no trial, somebody isn't understanding the law (these orders do happen now and again but legally they are worthless). In CA when someone drops a suit you can ask for it with prejudice up the wazoo, but it doesn't mean anything. Therefore if the other party asks for the suit to be dropped or withdraws it, you might be shit out of luck if you wanted your case to never be filed again for your own protection. You can't stop the moving party from dropping a suit and you can't force a trial on them. If they want to drop it, they can. Sometimes in court you are simply shit out of luck and it doesn't matter how good or bad your attorney is they still have to operate within the confines of the law. Unfortunately when you are the person affected by this sometimes no amount of reasoning and explanation from your attorney about how with and without prejudice works gets through to them. I understand why someone would be upset.
Bottom line I hope their jurisdiction and case law and statutes permit this case to be dismissed with prejudice if it is dismissed, but I don't know for sure if it's possible.
Over maybe KATE told them she never went to court. Maybe she's the mole. What was her tweet pattern that day? Was she farting sunsets or was she quiet? Lord knows Kate would never lie to her own sheeple about such a thing, heavens no.
I do know Robert was there. I don't know whether Kate OR Jon was there, I just know IF they were there the parties weren't allowed in, and that they were only told this over lunch. That's about it. The rest of what I know comes DIRECTLY from Shawn's briefs that anyone can read.
Count me in that Tuma knows all about Kate's fans and not only that is keeping a very close eye on what they and Kate are saying. It was that close eye that picked up on Kate's own statements from 2009 to use in his brief against her. He will not hesitate to take what she or the fans say and use it against them, mark my words.
I also think he's a nice guy that is happy to hear anyone is cancer free, even an enemy.
I really hope the Gosselin children do not repeat Tori Spelling's mistakes:
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/tori-spelling-serious-debt/
Nope Pat, no one suggested Kate was there. This is what was said in the email to me and what I copied here:
"Kate, Jon and Robert were not permitted in the meeting. It was just for the judge and lawyers."
While I was told Robert was actually there, I never said or implied that I knew Kate and Jon were there or NOT, and that statement does no such thing either. It simply states what we all said BEFORE, that of course parties are usually not permitted at such conferences. That doesn't mean they can't be told ALL about what happened and are free to tell others, it's just more of a housekeeping type meeting and having parties there often causes problems since many parties aren't okay with just listening to logistics, they want their side told right there and then. It's also a bad idea to have the parties in a conference with the judge since the judge is not supposed to be influenced by them. Easier and better to just not have them there. I have never in my years practicing law had a client sit in on a chambers conference. Never. I think a few of us were chuckling over the idea of Kate standing outside the courtroom door being told she can't enter, but we were just snarking.
It's not our fault if they want to read into that something more than what we were saying then accuse us of "misinformation." Whatever.
Pardon me I said Pat I meant Paula!
I almost feel embarrassed for them, desperately trying to do all this spin over completely inconsequential issues, like whether some old moot brief has been dismissed and whether Kate was at some hearing she didn't even need to be at. Who cares? How about addressing the MERITS of the case instead of throwing out these desperate red herrings that make Kate look WEAK?
----------------
They can't. There isn't enough "upstairs" that would allow them to do that.
I appreciate Tori's honesty although I'm not sure this has anything to do with being a celebrity. I think she's just yet another sad case of the many people who were spoiled as children and now live beyond their means and look the other way, raking up debt and selling for a loss and living in cities they cannot afford and other terrible mistakes.
This can happen to people who make 50,000 a year and it can happen to those making 50 million. It doesn't discriminate. I have been saying for years now we need to be teaching financial courses right along with math, science and english. From a young age. So many people are clueless.
It's interesting she says that stupid celebrity net worth site was off by 15 million dollars. I have also found it to be wildly inaccurate by tens of millions. They have no idea.
Her reality show is cancelled and now she's living in the real world. This is the same pattern every time and if you don't prepare for the end of the gravy train you can be just as screwed. Who has made a "career" out of reality T.V.? No one. Not only do these shows only last 3 or 4 years but it's not like acting where you can do this role then that different role. You are ONE character and you are stuck to that. AND reality is on its way out, it's old news.
Again, I appreciate her honesty and maybe it will help people in similar situations.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 171
''.......In CA when someone drops a suit you can ask for it with prejudice up the wazoo, but it doesn't mean anything. Therefore if the other party asks for the suit to be dropped or withdraws it, you might be shit out of luck if you wanted your case to never be filed again for your own protection. You can't stop the moving party from dropping a suit and you can't force a trial on them. If they want to drop it, they can. Sometimes in court you are simply shit out of luck and it doesn't matter how good or bad your attorney is they still have to operate within the confines of the law....''
~~~~~~~~~~~
THANK YOU, Admin! That is exactly what I was asking, and I really appreciate your thoughtful, stream of consciousness response.
Remona you're welcome though I feel a bit helpless. This isn't family law which I'm much more confident I know, and this is federal court and a jurisdiction which I've never practiced in. I only took one little required copyright class, that's it, plus a bit of First Amendment law! And, my Lexis subscription which is the legal search engine does not include PA. So I'm sort of just guessing. Most jurisdictions are more or less the same and we all have to follow federal law, but when you people who love all your little details start wondering about nitty gritty stuff like with or without prejudice I really have to say gosh I wish I knew. :) I echo the sentiments about appreciating Millicent too and anyone else who chimes in about lawsuits they have been through or other similar experiences. Between all of us I think we've got a pretty good idea what is going on here. Rock on.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 175
Count me in that Tuma knows all about Kate's fans and not only that is keeping a very close eye on what they and Kate are saying. It was that close eye that picked up on Kate's own statements from 2009 to use in his brief against her. He will not hesitate to take what she or the fans say and use it against them, mark my words.
I also think he's a nice guy that is happy to hear anyone is cancer free, even an enemy.
`````````````````````````````````````````
Good to know that delete doesn't really mean delete in "Twitter Land." Twitter archives every tweet from every account. I give them credit, they've really tried to fight the subpoenas they've been served with. They usually lose. Now, they are a little more willing to just hand them over.
Admin, So Robert was at the meeting. Do you know what his motion to dismiss states? Was his lawyer from New York there? (I can't remember his name.)
admin---182
merci admin merci
salute'
91999
The President's own staff member fired over twittter this week. Shame shame shame the things that person did manage to twitter about. More funny he hid who he was for 2 years.
Who was it said 'twitter=devil's playground"? Even a HUGE newspaper in trouble this week over a twitter post about a lottery winner. They had to issue an apology from the Editor.
91999
TLC stinks said... 14
I may be wrong about this, but I thought it was part of Kate's religious upbringing that she believed in predestination?
________
This is what my granny a true christian would call a backsliding christian.
KK accepted love offerings and I bet her hand never touched the offering tray.
I have a Q for you Administrator.
If KK never called the police or reported her supposed bullied/stalker can Robert & Jon's lawyers use that against her?
How would it look if she fears for her safety if she never filed a police report or complaint while still using twitter and fake bodyguard Steve.
I may be wrong about this, but I thought it was part of Kate's religious upbringing that she believed in predestination?
-----
-----
Calvinism (predestination) doesn't exactly have anything to do with backing down or the belief that a person is destined to become something (or in Kate's case, a famous celebrity). Rather, it's the concept that God has predetermined before someone is born whether or not he/she will go to heaven or hell. The person himself really has nothing to do with it, and therefore, it's not a matter of free will, but of fate. The luck of the draw. You get what you get and you don't get upset. If God decided that salvation is for you, then you'll spend eternity with the angels. If not, then, well...
Then there's there's the whole fate vs. free will argument!
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 173
''..... Sometimes in court you are simply shit out of luck and it doesn't matter how good or bad your attorney is they still have to operate within the confines of the law.''
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've been thinking more about this part of your response, Admin. I find myself hoping that since Tuma is such a good attorney, he can find some way to shut TFW up, should she drop the lawsuit. There must be some sort of cease and desist threatening something or the other Tuma could send TFW that is ''within the confines of the law''.
I guess I just hate to think of Jon out there for xxx more years with that WOS throwing him under the bus over and over and over again. sigh
I bet Kate doesn't realize this but the best thing she could do for herself is drop this suit right here and now. Jon would never be able to be vindicated. The train would just stop. No one will finally get to tell her once and for all no means no.
Now from what I'm hearing both from Kate's own words and others around her, she has no intentions of dropping it. So good, she should see it through and see what a REAL lawsuit really is.
Admin, is there a time in a lawsuit like the one Kate is perusing that it becomes to late to drop it? Like if she has to claim all the information that was allegedly stolen is true or can she drop it before she has to?
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 191
Now from what I'm hearing both from Kate's own words and others around her, she has no intentions of dropping it. So good, she should see it through and see what a REAL lawsuit really is.
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Oh now I get it. She's smarter than Tuma.
Let me rephrase that - She THINKS she's smarter than Shawn Tuma with all his legal expertise in computer fraud. Go ahead Kate. Show him who's in charge.
I don't want to miss a minute of this one.
Popcorn anyone?
I echo the sentiments about appreciating Millicent too and anyone else who chimes in about lawsuits they have been through or other similar experiences. Between all of us I think we've got a pretty good idea what is going on here. Rock on.
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Yes, thank you :)
Clairvoyant trojan horse with psychic medium tendencies said...
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My first laugh of the day! Love your name :-)
Well Radar has FINALLY reported on Jon's filing
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/kate-gosselin-jon-wiretapping-lawsuit-court-documents-case-dismissed/
Yes, Kate. Please go ahead with this lawsuit.
Admin (or anyone who's seen the court documents):
Was Robert's latest MTD filed by Martin Garbus? I ask because I'm wondering if he's still being represented by the same attorney(ies).
Now from what I'm hearing both from Kate's own words and others around her, she has no intentions of dropping it. So good, she should see it through and see what a REAL lawsuit really is.
(((((
Did I miss something? What did she say?
I was reading somewhere else and the fans seem to think Tuma's motion to dismiss was denied. While it's likely it will be since it's pretty standard to file this, where are they getting that from? There haven't been any arguments or rulings. They also keep saying that we are silly for praising Tuma for filing a MTD since it is standard (at least that Ziggy idiot is). They do not get that it's not the fact that he filed (Admin said at the top of this very post that it is standard), but the QUALITY of the motion that is impressive. It night and day from TFW's attorney's motions. It has logic, cites numerous applicable case law, and makes it clear the man is intelligent and knows his stuff. Those fans just are not deep thinkers.
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