A pre-trial conference was held yesterday in Kate's ongoing lawsuit against Jon and Robert Hoffman. On that date Jon's attorney Shawn Tuma also filed his second Federal Rules of Court 12(b)(6) Motion to Dismiss, and Robert Hoffman also filed a joinder to the motion to dismiss.
The full text of the motion from PACER is here:
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
The full text of the motion from PACER is here:
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE
EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
-
) CIVIL ACTION
v. )
-
) NO.: 13:4989
JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN, ROBERT )
HOFFMAN, and JOHN AND JANE DOES ) 1-20 ) ) Defendants. )
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin (“Jon”, “Jonathan,” or “Defendant”), by and through his attorneys, BrittonTuma and Orwig Law Offices, files Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Brief in Support of Motion to Dismiss First Amended Complaint.
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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II. PRIMARY QUESTIONS PRESENTED
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Satisfaction of CFAA Access. The CFAA prohibits unauthorized access of
computer or online information, not misuse or misappropriation. Plaintiff’s
access allegations are speculative, naked assertions that do not specify the
computer or account accessed, when accessed, or how access was
accomplished.
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 2
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 3 of 26
III. STATEMENT OF RELEVANT FACTS
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 3 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
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Once the divorce was final, Jonathan was required to move from the Apartment; Kate
continued living in the family home. When Jonathan moved from the Apartment, he left Kate’s
copy of the backup DVDs in the Apartment in a box along with other items he believed Kate
would want. He informed Kate that the DVDs were in the box. The following day Kate contacted
Jonathan and asked if he would be returning for any other items left in the Apartment; he
responded that he was not and she could keep or discard the items as she saw fit. The children
volunteered to Jonathan that Kate (and her friend) threw away in the trash everything left behind
in the Apartment (presumably, including Kate’s copy of the DVDs that Jonathan left behind).
Jonathan has not wrongfully accessed any computer, online accounts, or telephone belonging to
Kate—it is far more plausible that Kate threw out the DVDs in the trash herself.
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 4 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
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Even under the liberal notice pleading standards of Rule 8, a plaintiff must provide
sufficient factual allegations to demonstrate a plausible claim for relief prior to the court
unlocking the doors to expensive discovery. “[T]he pleading standard Rule 8 announces does not
require ‘detailed factual allegations,’ but it demands more than an unadorned, the-defendant-
unlawfully-harmed-me accusation.” Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009) (quoting Bell
Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555-56, (2007)).
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 5 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
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680. The Court then looked at the following allegations: (1) “petitioners ‘knew of, condoned, and
willfully and maliciously agreed to subject [him]’ to harsh conditions of confinement ‘as a matter
of policy, solely on account of [his] religion, race, and/or national origin and for no legitimate
penological interest.’” (2) “Ashcroft was the ‘principal architect’ of this invidious policy, and []
Mueller was ‘instrumental’ in adopting and executing it.” Id. at 680-81. The Court referred to
these as “bare assertions, much like the pleading of conspiracy in Twombly, amount[ing] to
nothing more than a ‘formulaic recitation of the elements’ of a constitutional discrimination
claim, namely, that petitioners adopted a policy ‘”because of,” not merely “in spite of,” its
adverse effects upon an identifiable group.’ As such, the allegations are conclusory and not
entitled to be assumed true.” Id. at 681.
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 6 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
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The complaint in Iqbal contained “factual allegations” that, taken as true, were consistent
with the plaintiff’s claim for relief but that was not the end of analysis. There were more likely
explanations which explained those events in a way that made the “factual allegations” not
plausible. The plausibility requirement is what made the difference between granting and
denying the motion to dismiss. That is, the Court found there were factual allegations that
supported the plaintiff’s theory of the case and that there were alternative theories as well.
Relying upon its common sense and judicial experience, the Court compared a “’obvious
alternative explanation’” to the theory advanced by the plaintiff and inferred that the theory
advanced by the plaintiff was not a plausible conclusion. Id. at 682.
The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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3. If not, are the factual allegations supporting the discrete nuances of the claim
strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible?
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 8 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
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some other reason. It is also possible that all reports, blocking and blacklisting are erroneous and
no eavesdropping took place.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. “What Plaintiff has alleged in
effect is the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability. Absent facts to support his
speculation, he is not entitled to discovery to see what he may find.” Id.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
Amended Complaint
“Jon illegally hacked into Kate’s email account, and her phone, and bank accounts.” Am. Compl. p. 1. “Jon began accessing Kate’s password protected email [and banking] account without her authorization.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11, 14. “On information and belief, Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone.” Am. Compl. ¶ 24. “On information and belief, Jon’s unauthorized access to known password protected accounts through the Internet has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶ 25. “In reality, Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 ... hacked into Kate Gosselin’s various accounts– and the protected computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 32. “On information and belief, Defendants Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 illegally accessed Kate’s computers confidential data ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 38. “Jon Gosselin, and potentially others ... improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password, without authorization to access the contents of those accounts and the computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 48. |
JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter
“someone, currently believed to be Janou, or one of her agents, placed a flash memory drive on JBC and JP computer servers ... in an effort to surreptitiously rip information from the drives.” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525-26. “Plaintiffs' technology personnel found spyware and malware on Plaintiffs' servers. They believe the spyware to have been possibly remotely placed. Further, they believe it possible that information was taken remotely by Janou and Puglia. Indeed, according to IT personnel, Janou could have passed along her login-information to Puglia, in excess of her authorized use, which would explain the placement, remotely of spyware or the remote removal of Plaintiffs' data.” Id. at 526. “upon information and belief, ‘all Defendants’ have been using the two notebooks belonging to plaintiffs that Janou has yet to return.” Id. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards “by monitoring Plaintiff's Internet communications and/or allowing third parties to do so.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. |
The allegations in the Amended Complaint are more conclusory and speculative than
those in JBCHoldings, Smith, and Iqbal. There are no factual averments that identify any specific
computer or online account that was accessed, when they were accessed, or how information
needed to accomplish the access was obtained. This is exacerbated by the frequent “information
and belief” allegations demonstrating Plaintiff is speculating.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 9 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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Perhaps most telling is the allegation “Hoffman falsely claimed in certain publications
that he recovered the data from Kate’s computer by digging through her trash that he found on
the street. . . . The materials in his possession could not possibly be physically found in paper
format to that extent. If Hoffman was picking through trash on the street, he did not find this
trove of personal information while engaging in his trash-picking endeavors.” Am. Compl. ¶ 31.
This is not a factual allegation. This is rationalization. This is conjecture. This is speculation—as
to why it had to be hacking—because how else could it have happened, right? Or, is there a more
plausible alternative explanation?
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 10 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
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cannot allege how the access occurred, i.e., how did Defendants have the information to access
the computers?
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 11 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
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merely ‘a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action’ ... [r]eliance by [Plaintiff] on
information and belief cannot transform legal conclusions into plausible factual allegations.” Id.
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 12 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
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Defendant accessed Kate’s (1) “password protected email account,” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11-12, (2)
“online, password-protected banking accounts,” Am. Compl. ¶ 14, and (3) cellphone, Am.
Compl. ¶ 16. Those are the same three allegations Plaintiff publicly addressed in 2009.
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 13 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
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2. The State law claims are time-barred.
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 14 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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Philadelphia, 2010 WL 1254111 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 31, 2010), vacated in part on other grounds,
415 Fed. Appx. 434 (3d Cir. 2011). The Wilson Court was considering a motion to dismiss
premised on official immunity issues that required facts concerning the dates and roles of
defendant’s prior employment. This information was not available in the complaint or any
incorporated documents. In granting the motion to dismiss, the court took judicial notice of
information from the defendant’s biography page on a law firm’s website. Id. at n.4.
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 15 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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C. The Amended Complaint Does Not Adequately Plead “Loss” or “Access”—Two
Essential Elements of a CFAA Civil Claim (Count I).
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 16 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
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the violator to obtain compensatory damages and injunctive relief or other equitable relief.” 18
U.S.C. § 1030(g). Second, section 1030(g) goes on to state that “[a] civil action for a violation of
this section may be brought only if the conduct involves 1 of the factors set forth in subclauses
(I), (II), (III), (IV), or (V) of subsection (c)(4)(A)(i).” Id. Third, looking at the five subsection
(c)(4)(A)(i) factors, the only one applicable to the case at bar is (I): “loss to 1 or more persons
during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. §
1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). A plaintiff must satisfy each of these steps for a civil remedy and the critical
inquiry is, was there a loss?
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once
again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 17 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once
again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
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Plaintiff’s second attempt at pleading a loss is inadequate for several reasons.
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 18 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
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c) The components of Plaintiff’s economic losses do not meet the Third
Circuit’s requirement for loss.
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 19 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
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or that there has been an interruption of service. The only thing Plaintiff has alleged is that
Defendant copied data from computers—not caused any damage or harm to them. See discussion
supra Section IV.C.1.b. She has not alleged that the online services or data were damaged. Time
and effort spent investigating and assessing damage to a computer is outside the scope of the loss
provision where there was no need to restore data, a program, a system, or information to its
condition prior to the Defendant’s conduct. Fink v. Time Warner Cable, 810 F. Supp.2d 633, 641
(S.D.N.Y. 2011).
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-à-vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 20 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-à-vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
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Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3rd Cir. Oct. 2, 2012); Grant Mfg. &
Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 2011 WL 4467767, at *5 n.12 (E.D. Pa. Sept. 23, 2011) aff'd, 499
Fed. Appx. 157 (3d Cir. 2012); Farmers Ins. Exch. v. Auto Club Group, 823 F. Supp. 2d 847,
856 (N.D. Ill. 2011).
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 21 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
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this information from Plaintiff's pleadings demonstrates that no such damage existed and that
Plaintiff cannot meet its pleading burden under the Act. In that same vein, Plaintiff would have
been similarly aware of the existence of any interruption in service as a result of alleged
violations under the Act. However, despite the opportunity to amend [her] Complaint, Plaintiff
completely failed to plead any such damage or loss. Accordingly, Plaintiff's claim under the Act
fails.” Advantage Ambulance Group, Inc. v. Lugo, 2009 WL 839085, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 30,
2009). Plaintiff’s CFAA claim should be dismissed without leave to amend and re-plead again.
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 22 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
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that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss,” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp. 2d at 526, as
discussed previously in this brief and as demonstrated by the comparison of the allegations found
insufficient in JBCHoldings and Smith to those in the Amended Complaint. See discussion supra
Section IV.A.2.
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 23 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
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whether an access to a computer "exceeds authorized access" or is "without authorization", it is
imperative to know the identity of the specific computer allegedly accessed, when it occurred,
and how it occurred to determine what rights (if any) the person had to access the computer in
general. The Complaint does not identify any specific computer associated with the alleged
access of e-mail or online banking accounts.
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 24 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
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“book contained defamatory and untrue information about Kate Gosselin, along with information
that painted Kate in a false and negative light.” Am. Compl. ¶ 36. Plaintiff affirmatively
disproves her claim.
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS
Document 11-1
Filed 10/22/13 Page 26 of 26
Dated: October 22, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024
d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com
Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609
p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024
d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com
Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609
p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that a true and correct copy of the foregoing document has been
served via personal hand delivery upon all counsel of record in the above-styled civil action on
October 22, 2013, at the Court’s Status Conference.
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF
MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 26
Robert's motion:
: CIVIL ACTION
v. : :
Robert's motion:
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 1 of 2
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN :: CIVIL ACTION
v. : :
JONATHAN GOSSELIN,
: No. 13-4989
:
ROBERT HOFFMAN, :
:
and JOHN AND JANE DOES 1-20 :
:
ROBERT HOFFMAN’S MOTION TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT
Defendant Robert Hoffman moves to dismiss the
complaint for all the reasons contained in defendant Jonathan
Gosselin’s motion to dismiss the complaint. Mr. Hoffman joins
in Mr. Gosselin’s motion, which is fully applicable to Mr.
Hoffman.
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ James P. Golden______________
James P. Golden
I.D. Nos. 32169
HAMBURG & GOLDEN, P.C.
1601 Market Street, Suite 3310
Philadelphia, PA 19103-1443
(215) 255-8590
goldenjp@hamburg-golden.com
Dated: October 23, 2013
Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 2 of 2
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, James P. Golden, certify that the foregoing
motion/joinder has been filed electronically and is now
available for viewing and downloading from the Court’s
Electronic Case Filing System and that the motion/joinder has
been served on October 23, 2013, by email and regular mail.
A. Jordan Rushie, Esquire
Mulvihill & Rushie LLC
The Fishtown Lawyer
2424 E. York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125
Jordan@FishtownLaw.com
Marc J. Randazza, Esquire
Randazza Legal Group
3625 S. Town Center Drive
Las Vegas, NV 89135
mjr@randazza.com
Attorneys for Plaintiff
Kate Gosselin
Shawn E. Tuma, Esquire
BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220
Plano, Texas 75024
stuma@brittontuma.com
Richard L. Orwig, Esquire
Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609
rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
Attorneys for defendant
Jonathan K. Gosselin
/s/ James P. Golden
JAMES P. GOLDEN
Dated: October 23, 2013
1201 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1201 Newer› Newest»NJ I agree some things just don't freeze well. Butter is not something I've seen a big advantage in stocking up on. I've found it tends to take on the odors of both the fridge or the freezer if I store it too long. A few weeks is fine. After that sometimes it doesn't taste right. Better to add it to the weekly list with the milk and eggs. There's a reason butter is on those traditional weekly shopping lists.
81 LBS organic butter&41 bags organic shredded mozz cheese- 1/2 norm price!
***
How many average families can afford to spend that much on just those 2 items? I'd say none. Even at 1/2 price, she must have spent close to $250 - $300. Her justification and mindset for taking all they had boggles my mind and sickens me. I wonder how much would have been too much for her to take. Would she have bought 200# of butter? Or 100+ bags of cheese? Or more? Does she have limits to her selfishness or does anything go as long as it's for her and her family? UGH
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 1h
Amazing 'it just so happens' discount grocery day!Got 81 LBS organic butter&41 bags organic shredded mozz cheese- 1/2 norm price! #LOVE2SAVE
__________________________
What a greedy, greedy woman. She probably left those shelves bare. Milo will probably spin it that Kate drove straight to the local food bank to donate pounds and pounds of butter and bags and bags of cheese.
I'm curious now as to how much a pound of organic butter costs normally.
Laura Merrey @LauraMerrey 8m
@Kateplusmy8 Tonight's dinner. :) pic.twitter.com/cy0StyrIVb
One picture is worth a thousand words!
81 lbs of butter & 41 lbs of cheese, how the hell long would it take to use that much butter/cheese and/or how much are you using to justify buying that much!
If unsalted, its recommended to freeze about 3 months, salted not longer than 6-9 months past it's best by date.
Frozen cheese is typically best for about 3-6 months past it's past due date. Again 41 lbs ... extreme hoarder much.
Even at half price, how much did the butter and cheese cost? Is it really a costs savings if you have to gorge on it or throw it away due to freezer burn or it going off?
Marianne Cullen @CullenMarianne 31m
@Kateplusmy8 Have you ever considered a line of candles or air freseners that smell of your desserts from your recipes? #candles
Fans are really on a roll this evening!
Does she have an entire freezer dedicated to butter and cheese? 1
She has what, 5 or 6 freezers? Picturing ms. organized with her dairy
freezer, at least 2 meat freezers, a veg freezer, etc. Yeppers.
She even admits that she doesn't use much butter, except for baking. So what does she need 81 lbs. of it for. The cheese I can understand-since she seems to make pizza quite frequently.
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 2h
@sammc243 nooo we don't use much butter so it'll last a long time. I cook with evoo & freeze butter for baking.Freezes well 4quite awhile!
It doesn't seem to even be crossing her mind that maybe other people would enjoy partaking in a good deal? Especially those less fortunate than herself? Couldn't she at least say don't worry there was plenty for everyone I asked the manager if I could take 81 pounds and he said they have 800 more in the back? I know I have come across an empty rack MANY times at the grocery store when a good deal is going on. You have to go on day one or two or it'll be gone. They do run out and frequently.
I'm not sure which is worse, knowing you took all 81 pounds and being clueless about how greedy and selfish that is, or taking the 81 pounds and knowing it was greedy but just not caring.
Kate doesn't care how bad her hoarded butter and cheese tastes. She shoves that off onto the kids, while she eats salad.
Maybe it's just me, don't use much butter at all and purchase it maybe 3x a year, but organic or not, that's a hella lot of butter to use and ingest. If you calculate it out for lets say a year, it would be +1.5 lbs a week.
So she bakes cookies, how much butter to a batch of cookies. Let's say 1 cup which seems to be common for most recipes for up to 48ish cookies.
1 cup = 8 oz, 16 oz = 1 lb, so 2 batches per pound, 3 batches a week based on 1.5 lbs per use, per week. That would be approx. 144 cookies a week, depending on the type, recipe, cookie size, etc.
You don't need butter to bake homemade bread or pizza dough, what she brags about making/baking most. Banana bread, cakes, frostings, pies, yes, but how often does she bake those items, not much based on her bragging.
Think how much you use compared to how much she has purchased. 8 kids or not, that's pure excess and only done / bragged about to show how much she can buy or exaggerate just how much food her family eats!
Looked at the pic of the dinner. Paper plates again. Sigh.
I wouldn't care either. The early bird gets the worm. Also - rain checks.
It doesn't seem to even be crossing her mind that maybe other people would enjoy partaking in a good deal? Especially those less fortunate than herself?
+++++++++++++++++
Nope. Most likely not. Then she tweets about it. Geez.
She's piecing and patching. Better resist buying all of that cheese and butter and instead put the money toward attorney's fees.
Speaking of limits on food. The grocery store was offering a really great deal this week on ice cream, but the limit was three per customer. A woman saw the sign and said, "Darn. I need six for my daughter's birthday party this weekend and I've just about reached our budget." Because we were checking out at the same time, I told her to get in line in back of me. She put three in her cart. I didn't need ice cream, so I bought three for her. When she went to pay me, I said, nope, it's for your daughter's birthday. Enjoy. She was so surprised I thought she was going to cry!
Amy2 said... 14
Looked at the pic of the dinner. Paper plates again. Sigh.
++++++++++
I think that's a picture of a fan's dinner, not Kate's.
I didn't need ice cream, so I bought three for her. When she went to pay me, I said, nope, it's for your daughter's birthday. Enjoy. She was so surprised I thought she was going to cry!
Hugs to you, Over In TFW's County, for being a generous and caring person. I'm sure you made that Mom's day!
Doing something like that would never cross TFW's mind. Nope, while you and others are being generous and doing things for others, she's busy loading her cart with every discounted package of butter and cheese she can get her hands on.
One year my son wore a black sweat suit with little boxes of cereal pinned all over it. Each box had a plastic knife stuck in it with red paint (blood) dripping out. He was a cereal killer.
Oops - the cereal killer comment was from me. I don't know if my name showed up with that or not.
I bought three for her. When she went to pay me, I said, nope, it's for your daughter's birthday. Enjoy. She was so surprised I thought she was going to cry!
********
Now, see, THAT's how neighbors treat neighbors in the grocery store! Thank you for doing that. Really, well, neighborly of you.
Her hoarding those sale items is part of a bigger disdorder within her.
It's not that she needs those items, it's that she doesn't want anyone else to have what she feels entitled to. Just like Kevin and Jodi. "Nobody makes money off of my kids but me."
Susan good to hear you're still here and thanks for your prophetic comment from yesteryear!
If questioned about all that butter and cheese TFW would probably say "if others wanted it, they would have beat me to the store." Well, except lots of those adults had to finish WORK before they went to buy butter and cheese for dinner and/or breakfast.
Now, see, THAT's how neighbors treat neighbors in the grocery store! Thank you for doing that. Really, well, neighborly of you.
+++++++++
Thanks, but I was just helping someone out. What's really interesting is that I stopped at McDonalds on the way home...just for some coffee, and the guy in the car ahead of me paid for it! I need to remember to do the same thing for someone else the next time I have a Big Mac attack!
It seems odd to me that organic butter would be on sale and that 81 pounds of it would be available at her local Giant. I have no proof but I don't believe her. However, I do agree with those who say she doesn't know or care if it stays a good quality while frozen. She doesn't eat what the kids eat.
Tried before, not sure it went though.
The poppies are officially on sale, please buy one and thank the vet who sold it to you.
Please wear it proudly, and teach our children who paid for our freedom.
And please stand in silence for 2 mins at 11:11 on 11/11. bowed head.
YouTube a pittance of time by Terry
thank you
back to snarkville, featuring TFW
ps. she still sucks, more than ever
franky
I checked the Giant flyer for the location she likes to visit. Giant brand butter was on sale for half price. Sargento shredded cheese was also on sale for half price. However, neither of those is organic. I have cooked with both of those products and they're fine. But I don't claim to be all organic. Why lie about something so stupid? It must be a compulsion. Her sheeple wouldn't condemn her for using Sargento cheese.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 22
Susan good to hear you're still here and thanks for your prophetic comment from yesteryear!
Merci Admin.
You are so right, she will go to the bitter end. What else could be expected from the likes of Kate.
Jon G. was once an innocent young man when, along came a spider. He stuck to the task, then stuck again to an even bigger task. He was no match for the spider. He rose above all that cheating woman dished into his path. Now he has no fear. Now he has a WONDERFUL and COMPETANT lawyer to defend him against the venomous spider.
I just found the article regarding Jon finally blowing his top.
http://dadsroundtable.com/spotlight/2013/07/jon-gosselin-interview-part-2/2/
Is there any level of civility that has come from 4 years of being separated?
To being friends or acquaintances? That’s not happening. We still argue about custody. She says the kids want to do this and I’m saying, they’re right here saying something else, so she’s speaking for them and they’re speaking for themselves when they are here.
So emotions are raw?
Honestly Jimmy, I haven’t spoken in 4 years, so now I’m doing stuff and it is all coming out because I don’t care anymore. Are you going to sue me? I don’t care. I’ll go to court by myself and for what? For freedom of speech? For freedom of expression? For actually telling the truth? I’m not under injunction anymore and I think that’s the fear of the network and the fear of my former wife but the truth is actually going to come out because one day, I’m just going to snap. Then it is all going to come out. I’m not bashing her but she has got to do what’s right for the kids. You know? When lies come out, I’m going to defend myself. I’ll go to court and tell the judge, here’s the proof, this is what my child wants, and no more B.S. and branding and marketing and product placement. They’re children. The court’s job is to protect the children, not us. The state doesn’t care about us. The state cares about the kids and to uphold the law, so do whatever. I have no fear anymore. I have no fear of the network. I don’t have fear of my former wife.
Wow former wife, Jon has no more fear....read it a weep.
Any time in the future that you think you and your former wife can be civil?
I don’t know? That’s all up in the air. I don’t know if it’s ever going to be to that point. Based on our history, no. But history can change. I don’t know why she doesn’t want to work together? I don’t know what the hate is, what the revenge is? She chose TV, she wanted to get divorced, she marketed the children. I just sit here. I really don’t go out that much. I stay on the deck. My friends and their kids come over, that’s pretty much what I do.
And this.........
Jeanne said... 27
I checked the Giant flyer for the location she likes to visit. Giant brand butter was on sale for half price. Sargento shredded cheese was also on sale for half price. However, neither of those is organic. I have cooked with both of those products and they're fine. But I don't claim to be all organic. Why lie about something so stupid? It must be a compulsion. Her sheeple wouldn't condemn her for using Sargento cheese
(((((
That's interesting because I googled "it just so happens' discount grocery day" and came up with zip zilch nada. Plus she normally names businesses in hopes of getting freebies. I bet you're right. 1/2 off is what she said.
She says she is a struggling mom but can buy all that butter and cheese? Even at half price, normal households do not have the out-of-pocket $ for that if they are piecing and patching.
Wow, even on half price / 2fer, she still spent one heck of a buck. According to those flyers she spent 285.00 on two items, which is really not worth bragging about. You can't even begin to feed a large family on those 2 items. I can't believe her sheeple think she's a great saver/shopper. Fine it's on sale, stock up, but really there's a limit and she didn't just pass it by, she flew by at warp speed on that broom!
The next time she talks about money woes, piecing and patching, someone needs to bring this frivolous spending up and question her about that!
Excuse me, admin, but I'm the Susan that posted that way back when. I still read here but don't post much anymore. Not sure why that person is taking credit(?) for that comment.
I guess I'll be Susan2 in the future, but that WAS me that posted that comment.
Uh oh...looks like the author who has been begging Kate for a testimonial on her book, and tweeting her relentlessly to hold up a picture of her book has found someone to replace Kate. Guess she gave up on TFW! I can understand a teen or pre-teen having girl crushes, but many of these women are adults. I just can't wrap my head around an adult woman being so fascinated with a celebrity. Is this "normal?"
Nicole Gould @nicolergould
@Theresacaputo cant even tell you how much I luv u! im going to cry I luv u so much and wish I could talk to u!!! :(
Nicole Gould @nicolergould
@Theresacaputo ahhh you favorite my tweet!!! YOU JUST MADE MY LIFE!!!!! saw u in Toronto twice and luv u so much!!!!
Yes, I could clearly see abuse when they were younger. Gumgate was a huge wakeup call for me. Shouting in that poor childs face while she roughly pulled of his "gum" sock, carrying on and then hurting her sobbing childs heart even more by tossing his lovey in the trash right there in front of him. Heartless witch. If she could carry on like that in front of an entire crew, I could only imagine what happened to them in privacy.
****************************************************************
I seem to recall Jodi's sister Julie stating that one of the crew that was there that day saying to Jodi at a later date about how bad it got later on (when not filming) and Jodi didn't know about that. It was along the lines of Kate going off....Does anyone remember anything about this or maybe it wasn't Julie who shared it but my memory isn't the best these days.
Smoothie 12...
Talking about food exaggerations and Kate....it's like peanut butter and jelly. Every time she talks about amounts of food she goes through she lies so badly...to look like she really is so much more special than all the rest of us mediocre folk. Ok...here are some amounts of things I remember Kate telling us she uses, (which sort of proved to me anyway just how clueless she really is about cooking and food shopping).
1. 4 boxes of cereal each morning for breakfast; that's 2 kids per box. Really Kate? I think 4 boxes would last 8 kids all week.
2. 2-3 dozen eggs each day; really, 4 eggs per kid every day! That's a lot of eggs!
3. In a small lunch, an entire package of grapes; in a SMALL lunch??
4. In a small lunch, an entire FAMILY sized bag of chips; I happened to have a family sized bag of chips in my house at the time she said that so I read the serving sizes; there are 32 servings in that giant bag and each serving was 10 chips, decent sized organic corn chips. The numbers worked great. Based on that she could practically give each child a decent portion of chips in each lunch for the week and only need one bag for the week. Not one bag for the meal!!
5. 2 containers of juicy juice a day; I'm not sure the size, are they 32oz per container?; but she dilutes each drink with 50% water, which means the equivalent of 4 containers of liquid per day. That's 1 container per 2 kids per day!! That's A LOT of juice!! I'm surprised those kids didn't have "toddler's diarrhea" from all the juice they drank. That's also a way to save money because they would eat less because they are full of juice, remember how they always had sippy cups, it drove me nuts, not healthy! Anyway, 2 kids don't drink an entire containers worth of juice per day, that's way too much! 4oz/kid/day of juice, the rest should be water or milk.
Any other ones I missed?
She says she is a struggling mom but can buy all that butter and cheese? Even at half price, normal households do not have the out-of-pocket $ for that if they are piecing and patching.
-------------
She said that she doesn't use much butter:
Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8
@sammc243 nooo we don't use much butter so it'll last a long time.
Sheesh! If you don't use much butter, you don't buy enough to feed the whole Russian army. If you are piecing and patching, you use that money to buy your groceries for the week. You plan the meals ahead and buy what is needed to carry you through the week. You don't load up on something that you rarely use!
I thought TFW blogged on Coupon Cabin it was a waste to buy something on sale if you don't use it?
----------
Yes. That's exactly what she said, and now she hoards butter like there's no tomorrow.
The storage cost will negate any savings.
&&&
Exactly penny wise pound foolish.
You can't just say you got half off butter. You also have to factor in the cost of the huge freezer itself, it would take ages to make up the cost of that. Plus the cost of utilities. One basement freezer is one thing but doesn't she have have three or four? That's ridiculous. No deal is that good.
In addition, factor in all the food the kids will spit out because their butter tastes like the freezer and you might risk actually losing money on this deal.
81 lbs of butter? And she is going to freeze it. Do any of you know what butter tastes like if it has been frozen, for too long? It get freezer burn taste. ick!
Cheese too! A thing about half price cheese, stores usually mark down cheese and other food, when it is coming to the end of the expiration date, just to get rid of it. Did Kate not too long ago was willing to except stale ceral? Is that what Kate does, buy food that is marked down, and almost to expiration date or stale, for kids? But probably buys the fresh stuff for herself? What a tool!
As for Kate being possibly in NYC, anytime Kate twitters Jason Black, or he tweets her, is when she either was just at his salon, is there at the salon or is going there very soon. It's a pattern with Kate. Cause the rest of the time she does not tweet him or he tweets her, only when it is time for getting her hair done.
Over And Out said... 37
I thought TFW blogged on Coupon Cabin it was a waste to buy something on sale if you don't use it?
----------
Yes. That's exactly what she said, and now she hoards butter like there's no tomorrow.
====
There is no tomorrow for her.
No new reality show on the horizon, no offers for another tv gig anywhere, there's a book about to be published that reveals what kind of person she really is, and a lawsuit against her ex gone wrong.
Oh dear. The gravy train came to the end of the track.
Her hoarding demonstrates, whether she admits it or not, that she knows IT'S OVER.
81 pounds of butter for the freezer, not to mention the cheese, may be the most ridiculous thing I have seen in ages. This is not responsible bulk buying for a large family, this reeks of bizarre hoarding. Something in the kingdom is definitely off.
@Ally #35 Here's more of Kate's breakfast & lunch for her kids.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/150775/gargantuan_gosselin_grocery_grab_photo
Maybe she is paying her lawyer with butter and cheese
Okay, we were a family of six--four kids, two parents. We even had four teenagers at once for several years. All those teenagers, and we homeschooled, so there was no school cafeteria.
Six people vs. nine people--the numbers should be comparable, right? And I can't recall buying butter more than once or maybe twice a month, a pound at a time. She is NUTS. "Gossmart." What is wrong with her? She doesn't have 200 kids!
I agree with everyone regarding TFW's hoarding issues. She even admitted she doesn't use the butter regularly, so why clean out the grocery story shelves? I don't care what butter is on sale for. That's just rude. Other shoppers may only be able to afford that sale butter for their weekly budgeted shopping, but have to pay more because TFW decided to hoard so much to fill her multiple freezers. And all the mozzarella cheese? The stores need to put limits on items because of shoppers like TFW. She's a professional grifter and hoarder. Maybe that should be her next book. The art of grifting and hoarding. Even if you don't need it, grift and hoard whenever possible, grift or purchase multiple freezers and make sure they are packed with food that may require resuscitation from months of freezer burn (i.e. butter). Nothing matters as long as you paid half price for items that won't be used for at least a year.
She must have a lot of coin to buy all that food at once, even if it's half off. Poor mouthing, indeed!
Thanks for the info on the Giant sale flyer. So she lied about the cheese and butter being organic. She is wacko!
By your logic, you yourself should never take advantage of a sale because eventually the item will run out and those 1 or 2 items that you bought could have been saved for someone less fortunate.
&&&
I don't get that. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a sale even if it may run out. But if everyone only takes one or two, then more people can take advantage of a sale and the store can keep up better with demand. If people come in and take 81, only a few people will get to take advantage and the store may not be able to keep up. It's selfish and greedy no matter how you slice it.
On another note even if you can afford full price butter and don't need the sale, this is a staple that should always be fully stocked. When someone takes way more than they should and throws off the store's budget and a staple runs out, she's just inconvenienced other families who may have to run around to a different store to get a staple. This is a little different than taking all the English muffins on sale--while that's still rude, that's an item not a "staple" and if they're out so what, you'll just get some bagels instead or something and a rain check.
Virginia Pen Mom said... 45
Okay, we were a family of six--four kids, two parents. We even had four teenagers at once for several years. All those teenagers, and we homeschooled, so there was no school cafeteria.
Six people vs. nine people--the numbers should be comparable, right? And I can't recall buying butter more than once or maybe twice a month, a pound at a time. She is NUTS. "Gossmart." What is wrong with her? She doesn't have 200 kids!
((((((((((((
Same here. There were 5 kids in 5 years, seven people. We were military so my mom would make one big commissary run maybe once a month and have two big carts full, then some smaller trips to the local grocery store as needed. She is ridiculous. Of course we had a refrigerator and freezer and maybe at some point, a second freezer, not 5 to store things in. I'm surprised she doesn't have a walk-in freezer.
You might at first think 81 an odd number. Strange in its precision & amount.
But 81 = no accident, I don't think.
It's a narcissistic wink & nod.
A fusing together of Kate with "her" 8
Ally said... 36
Smoothie 12...
Talking about food exaggerations and Kate....it's like peanut butter and jelly. Every time she talks about amounts of food she goes through she lies so badly...to look like she really is so much more special than all the rest of us mediocre folk. Ok...here are some amounts of things I remember Kate telling us she uses, (which sort of proved to me anyway just how clueless she really is about cooking and food shopping).
1. 4 boxes of cereal each morning for breakfast; that's 2 kids per box. Really Kate? I think 4 boxes would last 8 kids all week.
2. 2-3 dozen eggs each day; really, 4 eggs per kid every day! That's a lot of eggs!
3. In a small lunch, an entire package of grapes; in a SMALL lunch??
4. In a small lunch, an entire FAMILY sized bag of chips; I happened to have a family sized bag of chips in my house at the time she said that so I read the serving sizes; there are 32 servings in that giant bag and each serving was 10 chips, decent sized organic corn chips. The numbers worked great. Based on that she could practically give each child a decent portion of chips in each lunch for the week and only need one bag for the week. Not one bag for the meal!!
5. 2 containers of juicy juice a day; I'm not sure the size, are they 32oz per container?; but she dilutes each drink with 50% water, which means the equivalent of 4 containers of liquid per day. That's 1 container per 2 kids per day!! That's A LOT of juice!! I'm surprised those kids didn't have "toddler's diarrhea" from all the juice they drank. That's also a way to save money because they would eat less because they are full of juice, remember how they always had sippy cups, it drove me nuts, not healthy! Anyway, 2 kids don't drink an entire containers worth of juice per day, that's way too much! 4oz/kid/day of juice, the rest should be water or milk.
Any other ones I missed?
*********************
Just the enormous amount of @Charmin she claimed to go through, apparently from eating all that food.
Suzee said... 17
I didn't need ice cream, so I bought three for her. When she went to pay me, I said, nope, it's for your daughter's birthday. Enjoy. She was so surprised I thought she was going to cry!
Hugs to you, Over In TFW's County, for being a generous and caring person. I'm sure you made that Mom's day!
Doing something like that would never cross TFW's mind
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I feel the same way. as Suzee & others The woman on a budget would be very grateful for the ice cream in time for her daughter's party. Too bad more people don't do as generous things like that. Bravo.
Where I shop you can get rain-checks for items on sale that are sold out.
I also agree TFW was buying all that butter etc to show how thrifty she is, not thinking about other shoppers at all.Remember, she doesn't notice' people around her? Wonder if she's being more friendly to 'her' Target girls and neighbors etc now that her star has plummeted? My guess, no.
Anyone think Kate maybe trying to show the world that she belongs on TLCs "Extreme Couponing"? All those crazy couponers have hoards of food and product as Kate describes. I agree and think its rude too! I think stores should enforce product limits per family for just that reason. Some of these people clean out stock simply because it's free or they can "make" money on it. They don't even want, like or need the product. Seriously, who needs like 1,000 tubes of toothpaste?
I estimate 81 lbs of butter would have lasted me (family of six with kids older than Kate's) 5 to 7 years! A 7-year-old stick of butter?? A stick of butter old enough to be in second grade? hahahaha. Oh my gosh.
I know what's going to be in the kids' college care packages! Butter. The other kids are getting cookies and Kate's still trying to unload the butter.
Localyocal...
Hahaha...I missed the toilet paper! So very true! Yes after all that food, you certainly would use an entire roll a day!
Just the enormous amount of @Charmin she claimed to go through, apparently from eating all that food.
------------------------------------------------------
That could be the case.
Maybe the kids are chugging mugs of melted butter with their daily 2-3 dozen eggs in lieu of unstocked milk.
And why does she run off on these grocery grabbing galas on a Saturday when the kids may be home?
Hint: Answer contained in question.
I'm really surprised that the store let her buy those quantities of butter and cheese. I shop at a major US grocery chain and because of the extreme couponers doing just what TFW did with buying everything on the shelf, they've instituted quantity limits. NO WAY would she get away with that where I shop. The store that sold her that much needs to review their policies on quantity purchases and item limits and apologize to the customers who shopped after she did and who couldn't take advantage of the special because she was selfish.
(Assuming this was an advertised sale and not a deal on outdated merchandise): IF TFW was a thoughtful, considerate, or neighborly person, she'd have talked to the store manager, explained how much she wanted to buy and would have asked for some rain checks so she could leave some for the other shoppers and still take advantage of the sale at a later date. She would have left product for others to buy, spread out her grocery budget (ha, what 'budget'?), and still bought the food as she needed it rather than waste freezer space and electricity costs storing it for eons. But, nooooo, not TFW; she had to grab it all. It reminds me of her statement when they bought the McMansion 'mine all mine'.
Maybe the sticks of butter are for trick or treat. As silly as that sounds,and yes, I'm just joking, what else do you do with a 5+ supply of butter in your freezer? Crazy, just crazy.
Just the enormous amount of @Charmin she claimed to go through, apparently from eating all that food.
&&&&&&&7
Wasn't it @quiltednorthern? lol!
I estimate 81 lbs of butter would have lasted me (family of six with kids older than Kate's) 5 to 7 years! A 7-year-old stick of butter?? A stick of butter old enough to be in second grade? hahahaha. Oh my gosh.
------------
And cheese that's old enough to vote!
You know, the other weekend I was busy doing something on my computer and there was an Extreme Couponing marathon that happened to be on television. I was half watching. There was one theme that all those profiled seemed to have. They all have this "stock pile" that looks like a mini grocery store in their home. Now while I definitely agree on stocking up on certain items when they are on sale, ( such as paper products), why do you need 100s of bottles of soap, toothpaste, toothbrushes, sodas??, candy, deodorant, cleaning products? Stuff expires. They take because they can, don't need it, most likely it will expire before use, dry out. If you can't use it within a year, I would think its just waste. I also saw a woman dump 110 bottles of pain reliever in her cart because she had a coupon of higher value than the sale price per bottle. So she took them all because she was paid money for each bottle she took! I was appalled. She didn't need it, prevented anyone else from getting a good price on headache meds, wasn't going to use it, but it was like cash to her. That's why I like when a store says limit of x per sale item per customer. Everyone gets a chance at the deals.
I'm so furious that Kate would buy up all that product inconveniencing the store staff and public that I can't see straight. Is the store having to give out rain checks for those items because of Kate?
Kate says she doesn't notice other people. She doesn't notice that other people need to eat, too? Need to save a few pennies too? May actually be patching and piecing. I wonder if other people noticed her standing in line with her shopping cart fully of butter and cheese.
Kate Gosselin's High School Yearbook Pics!
Does she look bullied to you?
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/pictures/kate-gosselins-high-school-yearbook-pics-2009188/1156
she is also going to have to prep the butter & cheese for long term storage. double wrap or use the food saver, otherwise it's going to pick odors & stuff the longer they sit in the freezer. then they will not taste fresh any more. it will taste weird and off. I know, I used to keep a few in the freezer but no more because it affects the taste, especially. same thing if you keep them in the fridge too long. it tastes old.
Suzy
I re read Kate's "Goss Mart" blog on the stir, I bet she didn't realize she slipped up. In her lunch section, she says she goes trough an entire 16 oz container of hummus in one lunch. I thought she made her own? from scratch?? Did she trip over her own feet?
I bet she didn't realize she slipped up. In her lunch section, she says she goes trough an entire 16 oz container of hummus in one lunch. I thought she made her own? from scratch?? Did she trip over her own feet?
&&&&&&&&&&&
Maybe she makes her own and puts it into a 16 ounce container.
she is also going to have to prep the butter & cheese for long term storage. double wrap or use the food saver, otherwise it's going to pick odors & stuff the longer they sit in the freezer. then they will not taste fresh any more. it will taste weird and off. I know, I used to keep a few in the freezer but no more because it affects the taste, especially. same thing if you keep them in the fridge too long. it tastes old.
&&&&&&&&&&
I never froze butter. If you use it primarily in baking, does it still taste freezerish?
What is the cost to package and store 81 lbs of butter and 41 bags of pre-shredded cheese of butter for months?
Shredded cheese is more expensive per weight compared to a block of cheese. There is more processing required. The packages contain cellulose.
Cellulose is added to shredded cheese to keep the strands from sticking together. Cellulose, derived mainly from wood pulp and cotton, is used in paper manufacturing—and sometimes added to food.
I won't even start on the whole "carbon footprint."
Carbon footprint calculator.
http://www.nature.org/greenliving/carboncalculator/
think I figured out the cereal..she goes through 4 small individual sized boxes. you know the ones we buy for camping, 8 different kinds and can cut them to use as a bowl? That fits with her portion control. She never did say what size thebox was.
franky
Suzy 66...
Slightly off topic, but regarding off taste and picking up flavors of where the food was stored...I had unopened boxes of cereal stored on shelves where my washer and dryer are. They were there for a while, not sure how long. I opened a box one day and sat down with my bowl and took my first bite and could not figure out what the weird taste was. I kept at it a while and then I realized...my cereal tasted like my dryer sheets! It was very odd, very fragrant! It was a sealed box, but ruined nonetheless. I had to throw out all boxes in there. Needless to say I will not be storing food in the laundry room anymore.
Oh right, the wrapping and storing of her dairy products. Either that took a lot of extra packaging and time, or she tossed them in one of her many freezers as is. I vote for as is, so yes, those cookies are going to have a very odd taste, if she's still baking years from now when she gets to pounds 40-81. I cannot even comment on freezer burn cheese and gloppy casseroles or on the douchebag selfishness of her purchases.
Can you imagine if the zombie plague ever does happen and they have to ration us to half a pound of butter per month per family? Poor TFW!
An offer is on the table! Thank You! (From Gosselin Book web site). The book may be into a made-for-TV movie!
Whoa....new Gosslinbook post up.
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/
I don't believe she bought all that butter and cheese. She's lying. Unless she's starting a catering business. People who want to lose weight for the holidays would buy a dinner package for let's say 21 days. The food comes in, it grosses them out and they don't eat! Bam!! They lose 10 lbs.
Catering business name: Kate + 8. : A Good Way to Lose wEight
Come and get your industrial-sized popcorn.
Could that be true?
Hmmm. If Kate got wind there was interest for a movie THAT might explain why she felt she better put a stop to this now. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why she would give all this attention to a book that no one was paying attention to anymore.
I don't see Kate taking the risk of having to shop with other mediocre shoppers trying to grab up the discounted items she needs. She probably calls ahead to the store and tells them to set aside such and such quantities for her because she's the local tv star and deserves special treatment.
Drew Peterson and Sara Palin didn't have any success in getting their made for tv movies "un made". Don't think Kate will be more successful at stopping it than Sara Palin. Happy dance!
Hawkeye said... 76
An offer is on the table! Thank You! (From Gosselin Book web site). The book may be into a made-for-TV movie!
______________________________
Robert, get yourself an entertainment attorney when negotiating the deal. Looking forward to the movie.
Oh, for the love of all that is holy, please take the offer!
Is that sound I hear the karma train rumbling through Gosselinland?
Or is it the sound of k8ie imeanie realizing "She's RUINED" ?
franky
pouring a rumspringa, pass the popcorn
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com Made For TV Movie? :-))
Let's Throw 78...
I love it! That's funny. I think that I agree with you about the lying. After all, when her lips move she's lying. All too often she lies about food quantities to impress and maybe possibly grift some so she can save any amount of money. Given that someone else pointed out the sale flyer was for non organic butter and cheese and she claimed organic, I wouldn't put it past her to lie about the quantity too. More likely she bought half that amount.
She also mentioned in her journal in Roberts book that she stopped at the grocery store and milk happened to be on sale 2 for 1. So she bought 15 half gallons and got like 7 rain checks. Did she clear the supply?? But how do you go through all that milk before it expires? Isn't that just waste and taking away from others who can't get milk for sale?
I guess this is something she does routinely. I feel sorry for anyone who is local and shares a grocery store with her.
Oh, Admin and pool girls, battlestations, lol, you know an invasion of the zombie-sheeple is imminent.
franky
today is a really good day=)
Jeanne said... 27
I checked the Giant flyer for the location she likes to visit. Giant brand butter was on sale for half price. Sargento shredded cheese was also on sale for half price. However, neither of those is organic. I have cooked with both of those products and they're fine. But I don't claim to be all organic. Why lie about something so stupid? It must be a compulsion. Her sheeple wouldn't condemn her for using Sargento cheese
=======================================
I just checked the Giant ad and you are exactly right. Giant brand butter 2/$4 and Sargento cheese 2/$6. Defintely NOT organic. I know that if you contact the manager most Giants will sell you a case of an item at the sale price, if they have it. This is most likely what she did.
If she would have said "I got a great deal yesterday on a case of 1/2 price butter for Holiday baking and a case of our favorite shredded cheese!" there would be not one thing to dispute. But no. She had to exaggerate and claim it was organic and give odd numbers like 81 and 41. Thus, the pattern repeats itself. She voluntarily puts forth a lie, omits facts and exaggerates- then we find the actual truth. TFW calls this bullying. I'll never understand her logic in this.
In her "I Am a Bully Victim" piece she wrote at BV last winter, she claimed she was bullied in school. I also remember her making reference at one time to being embarrassed as a teen because she didn't have the clothes or things her more affluent classmates had.
"Kate Gosselin @Kateplusmy8 1h
Amazing 'it just so happens' discount grocery day!Got 81 LBS organic butter&41 bags organic shredded mozz cheese- 1/2 norm price! #LOVE2SAVE"
***********************************
If this is true, and I'm highly skeptical, it just proves Kate's general lack of awareness, self and otherwise.
I suspect she believes it MAKES HER APPEAR frugal and conscientious, and that's what Kate is about after all, appearances.
The reality is it just makes her look selfish and greedy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for sales and taking full advantage (most supermarkets, drug stores etc up here have a limit for such sale items) and stocking up especially if it's a product you use often.
During the holidays I'll buy as many as four lbs of butter if it's on sale because I both cook and bake with it.
But to buy 81 lbs of butter when you admit you hardly ever use it makes no sense at all.
That's why I doubt that it's even true. The disconnect between Kate's ideas about what makes her look like a good mom and the reality of these representations, false or otherwise, is like the Grand Canyon...you know, that big waste of space.
The hashtag #LOVE2SAVE is also a misnomer. She didn't save a freakin' thing...she SPENT a couple of hundred dollars on butter and cheese. She's SPENDING on electricity to keep it stored.
She's such a tool and her fans that keep piling on adulation for such nonsense are just as bad.
What a world! (I know I'm borrowing that from one of the other posters just can't think of who at the moment otherwise I'd give credit.)
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/
______________
Thank you Martin & Mr.Tuma. Now JG maybe, will finally get some money that he needs to live his life and help his Mom. Long time coming. And maybe now, the US Attorney will start looking into KG.
That might be next with the rumors of possible money laundering and off shore shell accounts with her bff and possible tax evasion. Not saying she did anything wrong!! Only speculation. Just an opinion under free speech KG. Don't sue me. lol I am BROKE. But, how do you afford all that stuff you have and do? It is our business as you beg for $$ and grift on twitter, and you begged from the church members across the country.
But with no income or steady job coming in, how is she living so lascivious? Even Tori S went broke which seems impossible and she does not have 8 kids.
Maritn & Mr. Tuma the new American heroes.
Maria said... 85
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com Made For TV Movie? :-))
````````````````````````
OHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMM GEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert!
Karma is a bitch.
♪♪TOOT TOOT♪ That's the Karma train that just keeps chugging along!
Hey, maybe this is her chance to get back on teevee!! She can star as herself!! Don't think she hasn't already thought of doing her OWN made for tv movie.
The butter/cheese crap is exactly that, CRAP.
Deflection at it's worst
Game Change with Julianne Moore was so good. If there is a movie I hope it's a serious attempt to portray the story of how a sweet family got so chewed up and spit out by reality tv. Yvonne Strahovski as Kate!
Karma Khameleon said... 91
Maria said... 85
http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com Made For TV Movie? :-))
````````````````````````
OHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMM GEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert, Go Robert!
Karma is a bitch.
$$$$$$$$$$
I do hope the movie thoroughly covers the collecting of the $20 cash picture money and the taking of "love offerings" while simultaeneously receiving $25,000 to speak at the venue and closing on a $1.2 million dollar property. I'm sure the SOL on those actions has long expired. But at least the greed and fraud will be exposed.
Tori Spelling went broke for one simple reason. She spent more than she had. It doesn't matter if you make no money or millions you have to balance your budget or you'll end up just like Tori. Just because you're a millionaire doesn't mean you know how to handle it.
Oh, how glorious this would be if this tv movie comes to fruition! I can already hear sheeple heads exploding.
Robert, as was mentioned upthread, be sure you obtain an entertainment attorney's representation. Good luck and Godspeed, sir!
I actually felt more endeared to Sarah Palin after seeing that movie. The way they portrayed it she was hauled in out of the blue and her poor preparation was mostly the staff's fault. I was also inspired by a woman devoted to Alaska and her country and fiercely loyal to John McCain. As well as her kinship with special needs people and her love for her baby. She complained about the negatives in the movie but I think she needs to realize no one is perfect and that the movie did a great job showing all her layers, including many good ones.
Wow, I've been so busy the last couple days (DS appearing in a play that opened this weekend. He was brilliant!!) and the second I log on, I see gosselinbook's news! Oh, my, I bet Kate is shrieking at her lawyers over the phone as we speak. Can't you just hear her? "Make it stop! Stop him! He can't do this to me! Can we sue? Yeah, I know we're already suing. Sue again! Don't you know who I am???!!!"
Well , now I guess when TFW talked about going back on TV and claimed that interest was huge, she wasn't joking. Only the huge interest wasn't in her, it was in something about her. If this actually happens, then the movie will finally put a stop to her "Poor little me" tales of woe. How can anyone ever sympathize with her once they see what she has done?
Hmmm. If Kate got wind there was interest for a movie THAT might explain why she felt she better put a stop to this now.
--------------------------------------------
Or it might explain bullied Barbie's butter buying trip.
The role of TFW played by Kendra Wilkinson. She's already had the dubious pleasure.
PJ
Lol Patk, thought that was the sound of popcorn popping, brief,though it was!!!
franky
dancing with Kameleon, go robert!!
Could it be that Robert will now have the backing of a network's legal team, and TFW will be the one out there on her own? My, how the tables have turned. It's actually funny when you think that TFW made this happen. If she had just let the book situation alone, it would have died out. But she had to pitch a huge fit and draw more attention to the book, and now look what has happened. We always thought she would be the one to destroy herself, and it sure looks like we were right all along.
Robert has really shown us what it means to stand up to bullies, to fight for the truth, and to never back down. Well done, Robert.
I never froze butter. If you use it primarily in baking, does it still
taste freezerish? 70
Cooks' Country/America's Test Kitchen recently did a taste test on
butter - both fresh and stored. They found that butter wrapped in
foil did not pick up flavor from the fridge or freezer. They were not, however, suggesting buying a lifetime supply all at once.
Oh and the favorite was Kerrygold, for what it's worth.
Looks like someone had fun (video included)
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/beyonce-free-falls-629-feet-new-zealand-sky-jump-article-1.1498103
Ruh roh Ratie!
81 lbs. of butter, 41 packages of cheese, all those eggs from 50 chickens, etc., she misnamed her cookbook. She should have named it:
Kate Gosselin: How She Fed the World!!
GosselinbookStTeam..@AlfredoCocozza42m
@TreeHugger63 @Kateplusmy8 Al Walentis is gonna be fit to be tied. He and Polly will be spitting feathers. Hahaa
&&&&&&&&
I love extra bonuses.
I wonder who is going to get the part of Kate. And Rat Claws!
Casting call anyone?
I just thought of something...could the TV offer be from TLC? There's no love lost between TLC and TFW, and just think of all the footage of bad behavior they have, just waiting to be put to good use. Remember the footage they put together of her hitting, slapping, kicking, yelling at Jon? Oh,my...
TFW's Twitter suddenly went dead silent. Can't you just see the Sheeple DMing each other frantically, trying to figure out how to spin this?
The little girl who plays Lily on Modern Family would be great as Mady- she would be old enough by the time the movie is shot lol She has great attitude!
I do hope if a movie is made that they do expose kids and reality TV, but I hope they focus more on Kate. Maybe Jon and the kids were sweet but Kate has never been sweet. TLC didn't spit her out, Kate was so toxic they vomited her out. I hope that they show all her ugliness from scamming companies, church people, and her fans. But more important her abuse of her own babies, Jon, and her dogs!
There is so much damage Kate has done that it could possibly be a series.
Oh, oh and if Robert has the goods on Kate plus Steve that would be great!!
I hope the kids are not involved in filming that movie. I could see Kate saying NO but then again her saying yes to pad their (her?) bank accounts.There is no reason to have them in it.
For what it's worth. I was at the local Giant and yes, the butter was half price and the bags of shredded cheese were half price. No, they were not organic. There was still some left!
Who will be cast in the role of the "lunatic" fan?
Kate is a twit said... 106
81 lbs. of butter, 41 packages of cheese, all those eggs from 50 chickens, etc., she misnamed her cookbook. She should have named it:
Kate Gosselin: How She Fed the World!!
====
lol!
Seriously, I wonder if it's crossed her mind (a very short journey, btw) to donate some of those things to soup kitchens or food banks in her area?
Naaa.
Movie notwithstanding, I hope the book is re released also. Go Robert!
Poppies of course, franky. :)
Layla said... 109
I just thought of something...could the TV offer be from TLC? There's no love lost between TLC and TFW, and just think of all the footage of bad behavior they have, just waiting to be put to good use. Remember the footage they put together of her hitting, slapping, kicking, yelling at Jon? Oh,my...
====
I don't know about Robert's book, but oh yes wouldn't it be a double whammy at TFW.
Did you know TLC is coming out with a new reality show based on TFW's cook book?
They're calling it "What Not to Eat".
#snark
OT, just a bit.
It was be so cool if the relationship between Kate and Steve was finally revealed. And, that it turned out Kate wanted Steve but all Steve wanted was her money. He did not want her physically or emotionally. Yet she depended on her to keep her emotionally stable enough to "perform".
I do hope if a movie is made that they do expose kids and reality TV,
but I hope they focus more on Kate. 111
AGREED.
I hope the kids are not involved in filming that movie. 112
Any children involved in filming this should be professional actors
with all protections.
If TLC is the network, then they could use excerpts from the book mixed with footage of TFW. Think of all the bad behavior that didn't make it into the episodes. They could have Robert reading voice-overs from the book, use examples of her behavior from archived footage, and do this on a small budget. Some parts (beating kids) don't have to be shown, could just be told. It would be easier for the viewers to stomach the worst of the abuse that way, and still show what a monster she is.
Casting call. Ratclaws played by that Dick? guy, u know, dancing with dem thar Stars, can't stop getting into trouble? PB's future.
franky
I don't believe she bought all that butter and cheese. She's lying. Unless she's starting a catering business. People who want to lose weight for the holidays would buy a dinner package for let's say 21 days. The food comes in, it grosses them out and they don't eat! Bam!! They lose 10 lbs.
+++++++++++++
Have you ever watched Hoarders, Buried Alive? Yes, hoarders do buy that much, as do extreme couponers...much more than they'll ever need. It satisfies something within. Who knows...Kate may have that going on, too -- a pattern of behavior for compulsive storing.
TFW has already moved on from her book I see. Even Milo tweeted her it was very hard to find the link on her website and TFW should do something about it.
TFW tweeted 18 hrs ago " ok..will do. Thanks!" yet still has not moved the link to her home page. You think she would have jumped on that right away ( I know she is distracted..ha ha)
I wonder if TFW is paying Milo and Patricia Chow for the advertising. I guess this way she doesnt have to put the disclaimer at the end of her tweet that it is advertising.
GosselinbookStTeam..@AlfredoCocozza42m
@TreeHugger63 @Kateplusmy8 Al Walentis is gonna be fit to be tied. He and Polly will be spitting feathers. Hahaa
***************************************************
This may be a stupid question, but what does this tweet mean?
Anyone here want a role? Which one? Is there anyone who has stood up to TFW in this movie?
Red alert red alert!! Battle stations battle stations!!!
Thank you Rymes, lest we forget. You just warmed my heart.
Snarking is fun, child exploitation abhorant, but we can still remember those who gave us this freedom of speach.
#gratitude
franky
What store would have that much butter?
She is lying to get attention. Plus she is nuts.
Regarding Kate's yearbook photos I disregard the pre teen photo since everyone looks awkward then. But the pics from her at 17 or so show a well put together girl with a trendy and sassy haircut, trendy clothes, hanging with other popular and pretty girls, and doing cheer and yearbook and school plays. I find it highly unlikely a kid like that was unpopular or bullied. Those pictures suggest she ran with the popular crowd. If she didn't then she would be the rare exception to the rule. That said, boo boo. Lots of kids get made fun of. At 37 it's time to move on.
Knowing Kate, she will be flattered to think there is a movie about HER in the offering. Spousal/child abuse, parental alienation, narcissistic personality disorder and all, oh boy, it's still about ME. ME!!!
Kathy Bates could be the creepy fan. David Lee McInnis
as Jon. Jessica Chastain as Aunt Jodi. Drew Barrymore as Beth. Chris Pratt as the sky jump guy. We here at the blog could play the church ladies she stole from. We could even wear our crocks.
wow Admin, that took all of, um a few hours for the zombie-sheeple to assemble.
LMAO,!
trying to hyphenate names ( google hyphenation, abbreviation and mind-melding, sheeple)
Ok, Admin, think I got them going again in circles, as usual.
Thanks for guarding the veranda perimeters so diligently.
franky
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 93
Game Change with Julianne Moore was so good. If there is a movie I hope it's a serious attempt to portray the story of how a sweet family got so chewed up and spit out by reality tv. Yvonne Strahovski as Kate!
_______
Sweet family? Step away from the rumspringa Admin!
Jon and the kids may be sweet, but I think WOS was a narcissistic monster way before TLC came along. TLC just allowed her to become a mega-narcissistic monster.
The poppies are officially on sale, please buy one and thank the vet who sold it to you.
Please wear it proudly, and teach our children who paid for our freedom.
And please stand in silence for 2 mins at 11:11 on 11/11. bowed head.
=================
franky-as the daughter, sister, aunt, niece and former wife of veterans, I do so every year. Thank you for reminding everyone.
Red alert red alert!! Battle stations battle stations!!! 126
Forget butter and cheese. A sheeple invasion require much more
substantial fare, like popcorn!
I'll supply the veggie platter. It's BYO, so bring the beverage of your choice.
Kate needs all that butter for her summertime pool/beach tanning. Nothing cooks your hide like slathering on the milk fat!
AuntieAnn said... 108
I wonder who is going to get the part of Kate. And Rat Claws!
Casting call anyone?
****************
No doubt she will insist on being cast as herself! Nobody makes money off of her family except HER!
We here at the blog could play the church ladies she stole from. We
could even wear our crocks
127
Hmm, I was thinking more along the lines of hats, like women in the
South wear to church.
And white gloves, perhaps?
But we still need an actress wiiling to commit career-suicide.
Elizabeth Shue is out, she's dancing back on track.
hmmm...
anyone? bueller? ...bueller?
franky
ps, 2 hours till zombie-sheeple half-hearted invasion.
hmm
#impressive
#not
franky
Realitytvkids.com said......
Game Change with Julianne Moore was so good. If there is a movie I hope it's a serious attempt to portray the story of how a sweet family got so chewed up and spit out by reality tv. Yvonne Strahovski as Kate!
******
Didn't Yvonne play Dexter's girlfriend? Love her! Was she in Game Change?
TLC wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft. pole. Plus, they're not exactly into made-for-tv movies.
Kate is a twit.
Thank you, and please thank your family members for their service.
My dd and I are grateful for our freedom.
Wish more would wear poppies, lest we forget.
franky
IF there's a movie, I hope RH contracts to write the screenplay otherwise the movie could end up being nothing like the book.
Over in TFW's County....122
No I have never watched an episode but I was once flipping channels and saw about 5 min. and I found it really sad so I skipped. I'm not a doctor but just in those 5 min. you can tell its a disease. I very much doubt Kate is ill and hoards. Her house does not look like that house on that show.
What I think is that Kate is a liar and scam artist! Everything she does is planned and calculated! She only says and does things that are going to put money in her pocket without working. She is also extremely lazy! But worst of all she is an egocentric bitch who abused her babies.
I would rather be a hoarder than Kate.
You can also tell she's lying because of the price of the butter and cheese. I'm from California and even here that's not a good price. If the butter cost $1.00 per box then it would make sense she would buy out the store!
Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said... 144
IF there's a movie, I hope RH contracts to write the screenplay otherwise the movie could end up being nothing like the book.
&&&&&&&&
Yes, Robert, don't sell out just for the money--make sure the correct story is told!
kids first said... 128
What store would have that much butter?
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I don't know about organic butter but big stores would more than that of common butter brands. I worked in a sort of smaller walmart in dairy for a while. We had tons of butter. It was nothing for me to put out 2-4 boxes of butter (24 per box) in one night and there was lots in the dairy case already.
********
I was thinking maybe Kate got a bunch that was about to expire and said she would take it off their hands for half price.
Remember when Kate bought those huge amounts of organic flour and possibly even organic sugar. Could it be that she bought the cheese and butter from that same type of place....like a wholesale place. Or maybe even one of her local farmers.
The tweet about savings and butter/shredded mozza was nothing more then a diversion to get people talking about her, and not paying attention to Gosselinbook recent disclosure.
Butter freezes for 6 months. 81 pounds of butter. Thats 13.5 pounds of butter a month. 3.5 pounds a week. Each pound can make 6 loaves of banana bread using my recipe which calls for 1/3 cup. Thats 21 loaves of banana Bread. That = 2.5 loaves of banana bread per kid per week. That is 1/3 of a loaf of banana bread a day per kid.
Bread Maker bread does not call for butter it calls for oil.
Unless Kate is hoping to extend the freezer life of her butter...I think she might have over estimated.
As for the cheese, that makes a bit more sense. TFW doesnt say how big the bags are, but using he same formulation as above it works out to 1.5 bags of cheese a week. we know that TFW makes pizza at least once a week, and so this would likely have been a good buy for her. Most people would not have the freezer room to store all of that, but as we know she has several freezers.
You can also tell she's lying because of the price of the butter and cheese. I'm from California and even here that's not a good price. If the butter cost $1.00 per box then it would make sense she would buy out the store!
____________________
Half price is a pretty good sale no matter where you're from, IMHO.
I think Cybill Shephard would make a great Kate, even though she's 63. She did a great job in 'Martha Inc' and 'Martha Behind Bars'. She's a wonderful actress and would be able to capture the true nastiness of Kate's personality.
BV played by Paul Reubens.
If there is a movie offer made, then I suspect Robert's book must be a done deal. And yes, despite the fact that Kate would be portrayed in an ugly light, she will be flattered there is a movie about her being the narcissist she is.
I always felt the Gosselin story would make a great made-for-TV movie. I just hope it is a honest portrayal. It will probably only concentrate on the pregnancy and immediately after the TLC contract in the early years and show the evolution of their relationship up to the divorce.
She doesn't have a prayer of stopping anything like this. These kind of movies are produced all the time. And this sweet, sweet justice for Robert and Jon.
You can also tell she's lying because of the price of the butter and cheese. I'm from California and even here that's not a good price. If the butter cost $1.00 per box then it would make sense she would buy out the store!
++++++++
It's a good price here. That is the price of butter and cheese at Giant. Cheese is very expensive.
Franky,
Thanks for the reminder.
Our veterans are the real deal heroes.
Not the celebrities, athletes and reality wannabes that the media keeps shoving down our throats.
Semper Fi.
. I very much doubt Kate is ill and hoards. Her house does not look like that house on that show.
++++++++++++++++++++
But we've never seen what she has stored in that basement or in her freezers.
Red alert red alert!! Battle stations battle stations!!!
++++++++++
lol! This is NOT a drill. I repeat. Not a drill. Emergency DMs!
Layla said... 120
".....They could have Robert reading voice-overs from the book...."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't doing voiceovers on Kate's wish list? :)
You can also tell she's lying because of the price of the butter and cheese.
-------------------
And, you can also tell she's lying because she's blinking.
If there is a movie offer made, then I suspect Robert's book must be a done deal.
---------------------------------------------------
How can a movie offer be made before they even know if the book will legally be re-released?
Susan Dowd @dowd24 4m
@Kateplusmy8 🎅❄🎆🎉👼🔔⛄🌟🎁🎄 Here comes Santa Clause
+++++++++++
Um, no. That was a movie...The Santa Clause. It's already been done. I think you mean Santa Claus. Sheeple are funny!
Kate wouldn't get one red cent from a movie made about her life. A fact that truly pains her since no one makes money off her family except her!
O.K.Kristen Stewart for the role of Kate? She looks mean and cold with a touch of NPD one can very well hear in her interviews. LIke the time she "outed" her school teachers for not knowing how to help her with more flexibility re schoolwork.
Anonymous said... 152
BV played by Paul Reubens.
&&&&&&&&
*spit-take* lol
R.I.P. Lou Reed.
Tweet-Le I don't know about the cheese but I think Costco has cheaper butter. I'm going to go soon and I'll check. Is there a Costco in her area? It's not really a big deal but if the butter was not that cheap why would she buy 81 lbs.?? It would just proof she's a liar on tweeter. Some people still believe her lies.
Something tells me this isn't what Kate had in mind when she said she wanted to be back on tv.
There has been a couple of posts about buying Poppies from vets and acknowledging those who serve(d) for our freedom. With these posts I feel comfortable sharing this with my fellow bloggers.
Today my sister (non-vet) ran the Marine Corps Marathon in Washington DC. My sister has run several marathons but this was her first MCM. She ran the course with 30,000 runners. Many of the runners had shirts saying "I run for XXX" "In memory of XXX". I bring this up to share that the fallen and those who serve(d) are never forgotten by their friends, families and buddies. As my sister put it, its a marathon she will never forget and so glad to trained hard to run with those that serve(d).
White Organza 163...
I love your choice of Kristen Stewart. I agree, personalities are a good match. Kristen always seemed cold or sad or angry in movies I saw her in. I thought it was the role. Then I saw her IRL. They both look pissy. Good call.
I have a question - some people are talking about how the book release may be dependent on the outcome of the lawsuit. But does that apply if the lawsuit is a civil case? It's not a criminal case, so why would it affect the outcome of the book?
LOL, PatK!!! Paul Ruben as McNugget. Genius! Pure Genius! I'm still working on Ratclaw, but I want to put dibs right now on one of the pearl-clutchers roles. I always dreamt to be one of those...
It's not really a big deal but if the butter was not that cheap why
would she buy 81 lbs.?? 166
Deflect! Pay no attention to that post from RH! Her twitter TL is brutal:
https://twitter.com/search?q=%40Kateplusmy8%20&src=typd&f=realtime
IF there's a movie, I hope RH contracts to write the screenplay otherwise the movie could end up being nothing like the book.
&&&&&&&&
Yes, Robert, don't sell out just for the money--make sure the correct story is told!
Too many 'stories' have already been told by TFW.
Robert, make sure that, once and for all, the TRUTH is told.
Get yourself a good entertainment attorney and don't give up story/editorial control.
@Meagler 149
EXACTLY
It's not really a big deal but if the butter was not that cheap why would she buy 81 lbs.??
------------------------------------------
The deals she's crowing about are standard sales run monthly or so around my area. No need to volume buy to that extent here.
I am kind of ambivalent regarding this TV movie..... as someone upthread said, TFW will be oddly flattered and I just wish people will stop paying attention to her...period. And I would hate to see any more negativity put out there pertaining to these poor kids. It's not a good ,it's just not.
Admmin said....
We could even wear our crocks
-------
Don't forget our pearls!
http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=110842
The top 5 crankiest Stars....
Top is jennifer Lopez... she wouldnt have to stretch much to play TFW.
George Clooney would be my choice for stevio
Russel Wong would be a great Jon
But, the karma with the mostest would be if Kendra Wilkinson played TFW!!!
I don't think Robert would be a good choice to write the script. His book was a mess, with way too much of his own commentary. Even seasoned fiction writers are not typically used for screenplays based on their own novels. There needs to be a cohesive plot to make a successful screenplay.
My choice for the bodyguard would, of course, be Kevin Costner. If he can do a Kiwi accent, that is.
Maybe different actresses will play different stages in life. Kendra would be from her full frontal post divorce Barbie stage.
I think keurig coffee- charmin toll house- and Dixie should be a proud sponsor of this epic lifetime movie lol - it's only right.
I would like to see Kristin Scott Thomas in this movie because she's my girl crush and I want her in every movie. So she could be Elaine O'Neill president of Discovery who thinks exploiting kids is cute and that Jon and Kate as her greatest achievement.
Elaine:http://media.corporate.discovery.com/uploads/portraits/eileen_oneill-04d.jpg
Kristin: http://us.cdn002.fansshare.com/photos/kristinscottthomas/kristin-scott-thomas-ive-loved-you-so-long-portraits-lo-242192274.jpg
How about James Brolin as Ratclaws?
152..Paul Reubens...SNAP!
Meredith, not so much.
Lee Ann Rimes?
afterall she has music to, ahem, fall back on?
franky
Semper fi, hand in hand,
and thank you =)
franky
Paul Hogan as the booby guard?
I will support the Movie if it revolves around Kate, Jon, Steve, and TLC exploitattion of the kids and how she fooled the world. .
I will not support it if it paints the kids in any light that does not shown them as being just kids who were exploited.
This type of movie, could be done with minimal reference to the kids...if done properly.
The only thing would be if the truth came out that TFW only wanted the 6 to become famous. If the kids dont have an inkling about that now... that might not be the greatest for those kids to laarn about.
But sadly, they will learn about it at some point in there life. I hope Jon is able to encourage Robert to have emotional support available for the kids, especially if they are about to learn things about their mother/father they may not be aware of yet, nor emotionally prepared for....
Ex Nurse said... 179
I don't think Robert would be a good choice to write the script. His book was a mess, with way too much of his own commentary. Even seasoned fiction writers are not typically used for screenplays based on their own novels. There needs to be a cohesive plot to make a successful screenplay.
_____________
And some seasoned fiction writers won't submit their books for movies because they don't want them changed. His commentary wouldn't be in the script. Too often a movie doesn't truly portray the book. If Kate's real nastiness isn't portrayed properly, IMO, there's no need for a movie.
Amy2
what a wonderful run your sister did, thank her from us please.
franky.
admin, fb
HIGHWAY OF HEROES
admin, please let this comment through.
I do not hde thank you
I will not support it if it paints the kids in any light that does not shown them as being just kids who were exploited.
&&&
Quite frankly I think they could easily make a movie that doesn't even SHOW the kis or actors playing the kids. Sort of like how The Queen about Diana's death only showed Prince William and Harry for all of about 20 seconds. I thought that was very respectful of them. As interesting as their part in that story during that time is, they were just little boys and I'm sure the men they are now appreciated that their role was kept private. If you think about it the main story here has always been more about Kate, TLC, reality T.V., narcissism and greed and everyone who supported her or didn't support her, Steve and Jon. Although the kids were the reason she is where she is, the kids themselves are really but minor characters in it all. They should be mentioned of course, but left out in terms of actual characters.
How about James Brolin as Ratclaws?
====
That's exactly who I thought of too. I've always thought RatClaws looks similar to JB.
Oh Meagler - Kendra playing Kate, what a great idea.
bwa hahahahaha!!
The day that book showed up on amazon she should have had a big link in the sidebar of her web site front and center. Well, front and flush right anyway. I am betting she gets hundreds of hits from casual people who were just wondering what happened to her and do not follow this very closely. I would venture to say the vast majority of people interested are just casual observors. You have to spoon feed people such things. I assume if a celeb has a book out it will be obvious on their web site. If it's not, I'm not going to go hunting around and neither is any casual fan. She easily lost dozens upon dozens of sales if not more by omitting something so simple.
This is basic, elementary stuff. It is astounding it's still not there and to put it there now after the big push is long over is just laughable. Amateur hour. If anyone is helping her with publicity they are missing some major details.
Layla said... 109
I just thought of something...could the TV offer be from TLC?
________________________________
I can't imagine this could be so. I suspect it is a competing network. If there is a TV movie made, I would hope it also exposes Discovery's/TLC's role in exploiting the children and turning a blind eye to the abuse. Thinking about it logically, it would be in TLC's best interest to produce this movie so they could spin it however they want and control how they are portrayed.
Also, RH will not be writing the screenplay. It is a great challenge and takes tremendous skill and experience to write an adapted screenplay. Any network wanting to turn out an even passable final product would hire an experienced writer. They would hopefully use RH in a consulting role.
James Brolin sort of has that stoic flat face that Steve always has, never cracking a smile. And he looks like someone who could manipulate someone else. Here's Brolin in Steve's uniform! Blue shirt, back pack!
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/10/03/1191466013_3558/410w.jpg
Even real authors usually aren't permitted to write their own script. Writing a script is a totally different beast. It's sort of mechanical and you have to understand not only everything a script needs but how films are typically structured. A standard Lifetime movie has a standard formula that needs to be understood on an advanced level for it to fly. The way a book flows and what works in a book most of the time won't translate to the screen. If this gets off the ground, hopefully they'll find a good screenwriter to pull it all together.
The only thing would be if the truth came out that TFW only wanted the 6 to become famous. If the kids dont have an inkling about that now... that might not be the greatest for those kids to laarn about.
&&&
I think that info is already out there and truly I think the kids in just a few years time are going to realize this themselves all on their own. They won't need help from anyone else.
This is something they will have to address with Kate and Jon and perhaps a therapist when the realization hits them. I really doubt anything not said in public is going to stop them from realizing that they have been so used. They WILL see it, soon. They are not stupid. At this point it's just delaying the inevitable.
Maybe she was stockpiling all that butter for us to butter all our popcorn. That was nice of her!
SCgal said... 170
I have a question - some people are talking about how the book release may be dependent on the outcome of the lawsuit. But does that apply if the lawsuit is a civil case? It's not a criminal case, so why would it affect the outcome of the book?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I wondered the same thing myself. I think Robert could release the book tomorrow if he wanted, now that he's removed the TLC pieces. My guess is that his lawyer has advised him to hold off. Kate's case is so weak, baseless and frivolous, why irritate a judge who may be willing to throw the whole thing out?
I giggle thinking about how the sheeple thought Hailey's (fake?) texts were going to be the smokin' hot gun in this case. They aren't mentioned anywhere. I give Katie credit, she sure stands by her mantra of "no nvr means no 2 me." How's that workin' for ya right about now??!
I wondered the same thing myself. I think Robert could release the book tomorrow if he wanted, now that he's removed the TLC pieces. My guess is that his lawyer has advised him to hold off. Kate's case is so weak, baseless and frivolous, why irritate a judge who may be willing to throw the whole thing out?
&&&
Yes, I think it's wise to just wait until the result of the lawsuit. I don't see evidence a judge but a stay on the release of the book, which I believe he would have the power to do. However, Amazon as per their policy seems to be waiting until the lawsuit is resolved before allowing the book on their site so that's a big problem if Amazon wants to wait.
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 196
Maybe she was stockpiling all that butter for us to butter all our popcorn. That was nice of her!
``````````````````````````````
LOL!!!!!! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap Admin! :)
I vote for Ken Leung to play Jon. (He plays the character Leon Tao in Person of Interest.) Picture here:
http://personofinterest.wikia.com/wiki/Leon_Tao
And Admin's boyfriend, Anderson, could play Purseboy! (Just kidding. I would rather see someone who is not extremely attractive play PB so it doesn't feed into TFW's delusions. Maybe Steve Martin would do it.)
I've read that pst stores have sale rotations of every 6 weeks or so and I've found this to be true. For instance every six weeks or so bacon is 50% off so I get enough for six weeks which is usually only a few packages since we don't eat that much. Then when it goes on sale again, we buy again. I haven't seen butter on sale here for that much off but it's likely a rotation sale. Also new or unpopular products will go on sale and seasonal fruit and veggies are always on sale so it's good to know what's in season to save money. I like too when the ripe bananas are dirt cheap, I get a bunch of those for smoothies. Bottom line is stores do have patterns and great sales are rarely a once in a lifetime thing. They keep coming up again and again.
The Amazing Race host, Phil Keoghan, would be great to play Purseboy. After all, he is a New Zealander....lol
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