Wednesday, October 23, 2013

Jon's attorney's second motion to dismiss filed

A pre-trial conference was held yesterday in Kate's ongoing lawsuit against Jon and Robert Hoffman. On that date Jon's attorney Shawn Tuma also filed his second Federal Rules of Court 12(b)(6) Motion to Dismiss, and Robert Hoffman also filed a joinder to the motion to dismiss.

The full text of the motion from PACER is here:

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
  • )  CIVIL ACTION v. )
  • )  NO.: 13:4989 JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN, ROBERT )
    HOFFMAN, and JOHN AND JANE DOES ) 1-20 ) ) Defendants. )
    DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
    Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin (“Jon”, “Jonathan,” or “Defendant”), by and through his attorneys, BrittonTuma and Orwig Law Offices, files Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Brief in Support of Motion to Dismiss First Amended Complaint.
I. PROCEDURAL HISTORY
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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II. PRIMARY QUESTIONS PRESENTED
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Satisfaction of CFAA Access. The CFAA prohibits unauthorized access of computer or online information, not misuse or misappropriation. Plaintiff’s access allegations are speculative, naked assertions that do not specify the computer or account accessed, when accessed, or how access was accomplished.
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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III. STATEMENT OF RELEVANT FACTS
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
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Once the divorce was final, Jonathan was required to move from the Apartment; Kate continued living in the family home. When Jonathan moved from the Apartment, he left Kate’s copy of the backup DVDs in the Apartment in a box along with other items he believed Kate would want. He informed Kate that the DVDs were in the box. The following day Kate contacted Jonathan and asked if he would be returning for any other items left in the Apartment; he responded that he was not and she could keep or discard the items as she saw fit. The children volunteered to Jonathan that Kate (and her friend) threw away in the trash everything left behind in the Apartment (presumably, including Kate’s copy of the DVDs that Jonathan left behind). Jonathan has not wrongfully accessed any computer, online accounts, or telephone belonging to Kate—it is far more plausible that Kate threw out the DVDs in the trash herself.
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
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Even under the liberal notice pleading standards of Rule 8, a plaintiff must provide sufficient factual allegations to demonstrate a plausible claim for relief prior to the court unlocking the doors to expensive discovery. “[T]he pleading standard Rule 8 announces does not require ‘detailed factual allegations,’ but it demands more than an unadorned, the-defendant- unlawfully-harmed-me accusation.” Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009) (quoting Bell Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555-56, (2007)).
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
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680. The Court then looked at the following allegations: (1) “petitioners ‘knew of, condoned, and willfully and maliciously agreed to subject [him]’ to harsh conditions of confinement ‘as a matter of policy, solely on account of [his] religion, race, and/or national origin and for no legitimate penological interest.’” (2) “Ashcroft was the ‘principal architect’ of this invidious policy, and [] Mueller was ‘instrumental’ in adopting and executing it.” Id. at 680-81. The Court referred to these as “bare assertions, much like the pleading of conspiracy in Twombly, amount[ing] to nothing more than a ‘formulaic recitation of the elements’ of a constitutional discrimination claim, namely, that petitioners adopted a policy ‘”because of,” not merely “in spite of,” its adverse effects upon an identifiable group.’ As such, the allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.” Id. at 681.
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
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The complaint in Iqbal contained “factual allegations” that, taken as true, were consistent with the plaintiff’s claim for relief but that was not the end of analysis. There were more likely explanations which explained those events in a way that made the “factual allegations” not plausible. The plausibility requirement is what made the difference between granting and denying the motion to dismiss. That is, the Court found there were factual allegations that supported the plaintiff’s theory of the case and that there were alternative theories as well. Relying upon its common sense and judicial experience, the Court compared a “’obvious alternative explanation’” to the theory advanced by the plaintiff and inferred that the theory advanced by the plaintiff was not a plausible conclusion. Id. at 682.
The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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3. If not, are the factual allegations supporting the discrete nuances of the claim strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible?
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
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some other reason. It is also possible that all reports, blocking and blacklisting are erroneous and no eavesdropping took place.Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. “What Plaintiff has alleged in effect is the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability. Absent facts to support his speculation, he is not entitled to discovery to see what he may find.” Id.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
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Amended Complaint
“Jon illegally hacked into Kate’s email account, and her phone, and bank accounts.” Am. Compl. p. 1.
“Jon began accessing Kate’s password protected email [and banking] account without her authorization.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11, 14.
“On information and belief, Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone.” Am. Compl. ¶ 24.
“On information and belief, Jon’s unauthorized access to known password protected accounts through the Internet has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶ 25.
“In reality, Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 ... hacked into Kate Gosselin’s various accounts– and the protected computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 32.
“On information and belief, Defendants Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 illegally accessed Kate’s computers confidential data ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 38.
“Jon Gosselin, and potentially others ... improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password, without authorization to access the contents of those accounts and the computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
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JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter
“someone, currently believed to be Janou, or one of her agents, placed a flash memory drive on JBC and JP computer servers ... in an effort to surreptitiously rip information from the drives.” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525-26.
“Plaintiffs' technology personnel found spyware and malware on Plaintiffs' servers. They believe the spyware to have been possibly remotely placed. Further, they believe it possible that information was taken remotely by Janou and Puglia. Indeed, according to IT personnel, Janou could have passed along her login-information to Puglia, in excess of her authorized use, which would explain the placement, remotely of spyware or the remote removal of Plaintiffs' data.” Id. at 526.
“upon information and belief, ‘all Defendants’ have been using the two notebooks belonging to plaintiffs that Janou has yet to return.” Id.
Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards
“by monitoring Plaintiff's Internet communications and/or allowing third parties to do so.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11.
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The allegations in the Amended Complaint are more conclusory and speculative than those in JBCHoldings, Smith, and Iqbal. There are no factual averments that identify any specific computer or online account that was accessed, when they were accessed, or how information needed to accomplish the access was obtained. This is exacerbated by the frequent “information and belief” allegations demonstrating Plaintiff is speculating.
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Perhaps most telling is the allegation “Hoffman falsely claimed in certain publications that he recovered the data from Kate’s computer by digging through her trash that he found on the street. . . . The materials in his possession could not possibly be physically found in paper format to that extent. If Hoffman was picking through trash on the street, he did not find this trove of personal information while engaging in his trash-picking endeavors.” Am. Compl. ¶ 31. This is not a factual allegation. This is rationalization. This is conjecture. This is speculation—as to why it had to be hacking—because how else could it have happened, right? Or, is there a more plausible alternative explanation?
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
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cannot allege how the access occurred, i.e., how did Defendants have the information to access the computers?
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
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merely ‘a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action’ ... [r]eliance by [Plaintiff] on information and belief cannot transform legal conclusions into plausible factual allegations.” Id.
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
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Defendant accessed Kate’s (1) “password protected email account,” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11-12, (2) “online, password-protected banking accounts,” Am. Compl. ¶ 14, and (3) cellphone, Am. Compl. ¶ 16. Those are the same three allegations Plaintiff publicly addressed in 2009.
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 13 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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2. The State law claims are time-barred.
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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Philadelphia, 2010 WL 1254111 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 31, 2010), vacated in part on other grounds, 415 Fed. Appx. 434 (3d Cir. 2011). The Wilson Court was considering a motion to dismiss premised on official immunity issues that required facts concerning the dates and roles of defendant’s prior employment. This information was not available in the complaint or any incorporated documents. In granting the motion to dismiss, the court took judicial notice of information from the defendant’s biography page on a law firm’s website. Id. at n.4.
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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C. The Amended Complaint Does Not Adequately Plead “Loss” or “Access”—Two Essential Elements of a CFAA Civil Claim (Count I).
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
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the violator to obtain compensatory damages and injunctive relief or other equitable relief.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). Second, section 1030(g) goes on to state that “[a] civil action for a violation of this section may be brought only if the conduct involves 1 of the factors set forth in subclauses (I), (II), (III), (IV), or (V) of subsection (c)(4)(A)(i).” Id. Third, looking at the five subsection (c)(4)(A)(i) factors, the only one applicable to the case at bar is (I): “loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). A plaintiff must satisfy each of these steps for a civil remedy and the critical inquiry is, was there a loss?
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once

again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
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Plaintiff’s second attempt at pleading a loss is inadequate for several reasons.
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
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c) The components of Plaintiff’s economic losses do not meet the Third Circuit’s requirement for loss.
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
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or that there has been an interruption of service. The only thing Plaintiff has alleged is that Defendant copied data from computers—not caused any damage or harm to them. See discussion supra Section IV.C.1.b. She has not alleged that the online services or data were damaged. Time and effort spent investigating and assessing damage to a computer is outside the scope of the loss provision where there was no need to restore data, a program, a system, or information to its condition prior to the Defendant’s conduct. Fink v. Time Warner Cable, 810 F. Supp.2d 633, 641 (S.D.N.Y. 2011).
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-à-vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
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Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3rd Cir. Oct. 2, 2012); Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 2011 WL 4467767, at *5 n.12 (E.D. Pa. Sept. 23, 2011) aff'd, 499 Fed. Appx. 157 (3d Cir. 2012); Farmers Ins. Exch. v. Auto Club Group, 823 F. Supp. 2d 847, 856 (N.D. Ill. 2011).
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
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this information from Plaintiff's pleadings demonstrates that no such damage existed and that Plaintiff cannot meet its pleading burden under the Act. In that same vein, Plaintiff would have been similarly aware of the existence of any interruption in service as a result of alleged violations under the Act. However, despite the opportunity to amend [her] Complaint, Plaintiff completely failed to plead any such damage or loss. Accordingly, Plaintiff's claim under the Act fails.” Advantage Ambulance Group, Inc. v. Lugo, 2009 WL 839085, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 30, 2009). Plaintiff’s CFAA claim should be dismissed without leave to amend and re-plead again.
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
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that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss,” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp. 2d at 526, as discussed previously in this brief and as demonstrated by the comparison of the allegations found insufficient in JBCHoldings and Smith to those in the Amended Complaint. See discussion supra Section IV.A.2.
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 23 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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whether an access to a computer "exceeds authorized access" or is "without authorization", it is imperative to know the identity of the specific computer allegedly accessed, when it occurred, and how it occurred to determine what rights (if any) the person had to access the computer in general. The Complaint does not identify any specific computer associated with the alleged access of e-mail or online banking accounts.
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
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“book contained defamatory and untrue information about Kate Gosselin, along with information that painted Kate in a false and negative light.” Am. Compl. ¶ 36. Plaintiff affirmatively disproves her claim.
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS
Document 11-1
Filed 10/22/13 Page 26 of 26
Dated: October 22, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024

d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com

Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609

p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
page26image6952
The undersigned hereby certifies that a true and correct copy of the foregoing document has been served via personal hand delivery upon all counsel of record in the above-styled civil action on October 22, 2013, at the Court’s Status Conference.
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma Shawn E. Tuma
page26image10120
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 26 


Robert's motion:

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 1 of 2
                  UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN :
: CIVIL ACTION

v. : :
page1image3080
JONATHAN GOSSELIN,
: No. 13-4989
: ROBERT HOFFMAN, : : and JOHN AND JANE DOES 1-20 : :
        ROBERT HOFFMAN’S MOTION TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT
          Defendant Robert Hoffman moves to dismiss the
complaint for all the reasons contained in defendant Jonathan
Gosselin’s motion to dismiss the complaint.  Mr. Hoffman joins
in Mr. Gosselin’s motion, which is fully applicable to Mr.
Hoffman.
page1image8072 page1image8232
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ James P. Golden______________
James P. Golden
I.D. Nos. 32169
HAMBURG & GOLDEN, P.C.
1601 Market Street, Suite 3310
Philadelphia, PA  19103-1443
(215) 255-8590
goldenjp@hamburg-golden.com
page1image10936
Dated:  October 23, 2013

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 2 of 2
                     CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
          I, James P. Golden, certify that the foregoing
motion/joinder has been filed electronically and is now
available for viewing and downloading from the Court’s
Electronic Case Filing System and that the motion/joinder has
been served on October 23, 2013, by email and regular mail.
               A. Jordan Rushie, Esquire
               Mulvihill & Rushie LLC
               The Fishtown Lawyer
               2424 E. York Street, Suite 316
               Philadelphia, PA 19125
               Jordan@FishtownLaw.com
               Marc J. Randazza, Esquire
               Randazza Legal Group
               3625 S. Town Center Drive
               Las Vegas, NV  89135
               mjr@randazza.com
               Attorneys for Plaintiff
               Kate Gosselin
               Shawn E. Tuma, Esquire
               BrittonTuma
               7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220
               Plano, Texas 75024
               stuma@brittontuma.com
               Richard L. Orwig, Esquire
               Orwig Law Offices
               2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
               West Lawn, PA 19609
               rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
               Attorneys for defendant
               Jonathan K. Gosselin
page2image10608
/s/ James P. Golden
JAMES P. GOLDEN
page2image11560
Dated:  October 23, 2013

1201 sediments (sic) from readers:

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Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


Something tells me this isn't what Kate had in mind when she said she wanted to be back on tv.

&&&

Well that's what happens when you're not clear in your prayers to God! It's not His fault if He gets confused.

Call Me Crazy said...

The project is not a go yet, but it is fun to fantasize about it.

Wouldn't it be positively delicious if they included a scene where TFW was at a book signing at, say ... oh, I don't know ... a Barnes and Noble maybe, and someone, say, of a lawyerly countenance perhaps, asked TFW a question about, say ... oh, child labor laws or such ... and Ratclaws grabbed said lawyerly type person and escorted her away?

Heh, heh. Maybe a certain lawyer we all know could do a cameo!

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

A standard Lifetime movie has a standard formula that needs to be understood on an advanced level for it to fly.
___________

And standard Lifetime movies are crap. LOL (IMO) How many times do we hear, "The movie wasn't as good as the book." I've often read how frustrated the author has been because the movie didn't properly portray the book. But then, we're not talking about an Academy Award type movie either. It could very well end up on Lifetime.

PatK said...

The sheeple sure have been quiet on Twitter today since the news about the possible tv movie erupted. Are they in a herd elsewhere trying to decide how to approach this?

Amy2 said...

Shall we play a game? (Line from WarGames movie). Who do you think should play...
Kate:
Jon:
Steve

Call Me Crazy said...

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said... 187

If Kate's real nastiness isn't portrayed properly, IMO, there's no need for a movie.
___________________________

Tweet-le. I don't think there is cause for worry there. I suspect the driving force behind a possible movie would be to highlight her nastiness, duplicity, greed, etc, etc. That is the story and the draw. A modern day Mommy Dearest.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Robert's book was IMO just a collection of information. There wasn't a particular style or "special thing" about it and I think even he admits that. When authors complain about movies it's usually because of the magic of their book couldn't be captured. That's because there are some works of fiction out there that just touch you, we've all experienced that. This isn't as much of a concern with a non fiction book and certainly not this one.

Game Change, for example, was just as good as the book if not far better. Game Change was a collection of facts, a non fiction. The movie brought the cold hard facts alive.

Rhymes with Witch said...

The project is not a go yet, but it is fun to fantasize about it 4

Exactly! Some comments are silly, some comments are serious and some are pure snark. We all know it's not a done deal,

I especially like Admin's suggestion about alluding to the children
while showing them only minimally (and not the real kids, but actors).

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I can't find this answer ANYWHERE online! Although I see a few people complaining about it but no real answer. What happened to the apple mail RSS Feeds in Mavericks? I had a whole list of them in my sidebar and now they've just gone poof once I downloaded Mavericks. Where did they go?? Boo hiss!!!

Anonymous said...

OT
the Mitic bros on Amazing Race Canada, is a friend of mine

Jody lost his legs leading a team through a portal. One step wrong and he lost his lower legs.

Remind me again how many mis-steps thefw did?

any real repurcussions?

franky


ps, taking a walk on the WILD SIDE, with Lou Reed.

TLC stinks said...

Handinhand, we don't know if it has passed legal tests and will be released, but I suspect that it has. This totally explains Kate suing Robert. It's a delay tactic. An offer for movie would not be made if the book was DOA. The book was pulled because of TLC copyright violations. They got it pulled from Amazon. I'd say Robert and his attorneys have resolved this issue by omitting that info from the book or worked out a monetary deal with TLC. I believe they settled.

Layla said...

Ingrid (147)
There is a grocery store in PA called Amelia's, and they buy out expired or about-to-expire stuff and sell it dirt cheap. THey carry organic stuff, so that may be where TFW got hers. She'd have to be careful. I don't like to buy groceries that are about to expire, and I would never buy it if it were expired. Of course, TFW is trying to feed the kids as cheaply as possible, so she might.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

This truly is the missing link to make this all make sense. Kate probably got wind that a movie was being shopped around, there was interest. She panicked and sued. It makes no sense to sue otherwise. This book was so yesterday's news. WAS.

Katykat said...

I'm auditioning for the role of Nala so I can growl at her and have the opportunity to bite her. "Wait, what? You said 'Cut!"? Oh, I didn't hear it. ;)

Rhymes with Witch said...

ps, taking a walk on the WILD SIDE, with Lou Reed. 12

Walking with you and Lou, franky.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather see an in-depth documentary/exposé. I want real people interviewed. Forget trying to tell this "story" with a movie. It wouldn't be as hard-hitting as it needs to be. Maybe it could be aired on Discovery.

PJ

Rhymes with Witch said...

This truly is the missing link to make this all make sense. Kate
probably got wind that a movie was being shopped around, there was
interest. She panicked and sued. It makes no sense to sue otherwise.
This book was so yesterday's news. WAS. 14

It may have been the lawsuit bringing attention to the book that
sparked interest in a MFTV movie. Perhaps we'll find out one day.

Rhymes with Witch said...

I'd rather see an in-depth documentary/exposé. 18

It would have made a great 60 Minutes piece back in the day. It's
over. A mftv movie is the best that may happen. Personally, I want
the book.

Meagler said...

TFW nice? I think not...

she bought up all that organic butter so we COULDNT butter our popcorn......

Witch! Tis the season...

wfhell said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 3

Well that's what happens when you're not clear in your prayers to God! It's not His fault if He gets confused.

===========

Sheesh, even the Almighty doesn't know how to help her

Meagler said...

Part of of my naive self wants to believe those kids have been fairly well protected and dont know...we always love our mommies and daddies, no matter how badly they treat us.

But to find out they may have only been wanted ( by one parent) to make a quick buck...that isnt even something the Famous Quints had to work through.

Even if its not true, the speculation is out there, and the kids will learn about it at some point , if not already. However, the older they get the better chance they have of having the tools to cope with it as best as can be.

I do agree, as said in #185, this type of movie, could be done with minimal reference to the kids...if done properly.

Just like admin also said, the Story of Princess Diana.

Pass the popcorn...with butter... I have enough to get us through this! lol

handinhand said...

For casting, how about Eric Roberts in the role of Steve?

Anonymous said...

Rrymes, welcome on this chain-gang

John, marley and lou thank you. franky

Unknown said...

Call Me Crazy said... 200
''...I would rather see someone who is not extremely attractive play PB so it doesn't feed into TFW's delusions. Maybe Steve Martin would do it.)''
~~~~~~~~~~
Just came online, and oh my goodness! The prospect of a movie made of Robert's book makes my heart happy!

I agree with you about choosing an actor to play Rat Claws. In my opinion, they should first find someone short! How tall are all the actors mentioned? Also, I don't think that anyone 'famous' should be chosen to be Rat Claws, because it somehow elevates his position in this saga.

OK.....I'm not sure that even made sense. My mind is whirling at the latest news!

Call Me Crazy said...

Along with my choice of Ken Leung to play Jon, I choose Christina el Moussa of HGTV's Flip or Flop to play Kate.

http://www.tvrage.com/person/id-401947/Christina+El+Moussa

Anonymous said...

Hand, non

Eric has redeemed hisself, um, um,, um tfw, not so much

franky


te hard I tell youse

localyocul said...

I want to see a scene where Kate and Jon go to speak to a church, then pass the plate for the children's college fund in the summer of 2008 when they were buying their mansion. It happened. I was there.

fidosmommy said...

Does anyone remember the real-life girl who had a fatal disease and the doctors could find no matching donor. The parents heard that a second child might be their answer, and so a second daughter was conceived. I have no idea how early she was when she found out the real reason her parents wanted another child.

There may be a lot more to the story than this, but these are the points I remember.

Dr Phil: a child should never be born with a job description. I think he's got that one right. Too bad TFW didn't meet Dr Phil BEFORE she had a "brand to protect" and used her youngest 6 children as breadwinners.

Think About the Kids said...

I do agree, as said in #185, this type of movie, could be done with minimal reference to the kids...if done properly.
******************************
What difference does it make if there is minimal reference to the kids? How will having a TV movie made out of a tell-all about their mother help them in any way?

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


What difference does it make if there is minimal reference to the kids? How will having a TV movie made out of a tell-all about their mother help them in any way?

&&&

I don't see that it does and I don't think anyone is claiming it will. It probably won't help them, although if you think the kids don't know or won't know soon what was done to them you're living in a fantasy world.

Not every single thing we discuss has to feed into does it help or not help the kids. Some things are just being discussed. Robert said a movie deal is on the table, people are discussing it. It's not really anything more than that. Most of it is snark anyway. Anyone who has been around Hollywood knows that a movie deal on the table doesn't mean anything until the director yells action.

localyocul said...

fidosmommy said... 30
Does anyone remember the real-life girl who had a fatal disease and the doctors could find no matching donor. The parents heard that a second child might be their answer, and so a second daughter was conceived. I have no idea how early she was when she found out the real reason her parents wanted another child.

There may be a lot more to the story than this, but these are the points I remember.

**********

Yes, and did you ever read My Sister's Keeper? That's what that was about. Well, a similar situation.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I just saw an Ameriprise commercial with Tommy Lee Jones and I remembered how much I heart that man. We need to give him a part. Jon's father? We could shave his head.

Ex Nurse said...

Call me crazy said...
I don't think there is cause for worry there. I suspect the driving force behind a possible movie would be to highlight her nastiness, duplicity, greed, etc, etc. That is the story and the draw. A modern day Mommy Dearest.
_______
ITA with everything you have said today. i am sure that the movie will focus on her most polarizing personality characteristics--what else is interesting about her? And one of those characteristics is her willingness to exploit her children and have them financially support the family. Since it was her child exploitation that brought out the critics initially, hopefully the network will be sensitive to viewers not wanted to see further exploitation of the kids.

I just don't think that it is realistic to expect that Robert is in the position of, say, a best-selling author, that can demand creative control of the project. His professional experience is as a writer for articles, which is different from a book, and different from a screenplay, which focuses on writing dialogue. His book was released for what, 2 days? If he is lucky, then maybe there will be another network interested, which could raise the stakes.

I know a screenwriter and producer, for a major television show. that has just finalized a deal for a movie. The movie ia based on her 2nd novel, which was a best-seller. Major producers and independant producers were bidding on the rights, and, even she will not be writing the screenplay.

Bitchy Pants said...

I certainly hope a TV Movie is made from Robert's book. Even if it's made by Lifetime. I know it's fashionable to put down their movies and call them crap, but they've also done some excellent "true story" movies -- "Dawn Anna" for one, "The Green River Killers" for another. I agree, Ken Leung would be an excellent choice for Jon. Or maybe Daniel Dae Kim, one of Leung's co-stars from "Lost". For PB -- How about Henry Ian Cusick? Or Simon Baker? Or maybe they're too good looking for PB. Kendra Wilkinson might be okay for the early days TFMJG, but she isn't hard-faced and haggard looking enough to play her now and I'm not sure any make-up job could pull that look off. Yvonne Strahovski would be an interesting choice for TFMJG. Loved her in "Chuck"!

Did I read correctly that TFMJG is claiming to have purchased 81# of butter?! WTF for? What's she going to do with it? Fill her pool with it? The 41 packages of cheese I can see her using, given the way she gloms cheese on everything. Even if they are 2# packages, which I doubt, she'd go through that amount in a few months, if it's usable after she freezes it. I accidentally froze part of a package of shredded cheese and it was all gluey and clumped together when I thawed it out, and it wouldn't melt properly, either. UGH! Nasty!

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Lifetime used to be crap. There are some good movies though lately and they've gotten some big names. I haven't seen their series but I hear they have a few great ones. All the cable networks have had to up their game to compete, hence why we're getting some of the best T.V. on cable. AMC is a prime example. They can't be written off as melodramatic crap anymore, that's just not always the case.

Suzee said...

Can you imagine how scared TFW, Figure 8, and TLC must be with a network interested in the book? Think of the massive secrets they don't want splashed on tvs around the country.

As much as I want the truth to be told, I have to admit that if the movie isn't truthful, I'd rather it not be produced at all. There's no reason to make movie unless it can tell the truth and with the way Hollywood works, that's going to be a difficult task. It seems so easy; just use TFW's own words from her journals and e-mails but we know what happens when networks get involved with their only goal to make money.

My fingers are crossed, though that Robert can do this justice by holding true to telling the real story TFW and TLC wanted to be kept hidden forever.


Lying for spite and fun said...

I'm sorry to be laughing here. Everyone is so outraged that she "bought 81 lbs" of butter.

Well remember this: if she said it, it's a lie.

I don't believe for one nano second that she really bought 81 lbs.

She lies for sport. She lies for spite. She lies out of anger.

Someone up thread probably had it right when they figured 81 = 8 ATMs plus her. TFW was having a funny with us.

If she's talking, she's lying. She's a lying liar who lies.

localyocul said...

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 21m
Finally had Shokas 5th bday party 2day..friends joined us AND a furry family member....all the pics&details soon...
I'm 'doggone' tired! GN!

((((

Oh really, what happened to last weekend? We had a party for our dog when she turned one. My daughter insisted on it..she was 9. We had my family, her dad (my ex) and his family, and at least two other dogs. It was fun!

Sherry Baby said...

Fired Up 4 Kate ‏@MiloandJack 7m
@Kateplusmy8 Oh geez...we could have done a "Skype" & let Jack/Katie/andMilo all have a bark-fest-meow mix of a convo w/Shoka! :)

____________________
Exactly HOW old is this woman? She's crazier than a bed bug.

localyocul said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 37
Lifetime used to be crap. There are some good movies though lately and they've gotten some big names. I haven't seen their series but I hear they have a few great ones. All the cable networks have had to up their game to compete, hence why we're getting some of the best T.V. on cable. AMC is a prime example. They can't be written off as melodramatic crap anymore, that's just not always the case.

*

Hey now! I love my Lifetime movies! The Stranger Beside Me about Ted Bundy was an excellent movie. I think it was originally a Lifetime movie based on the book by Ann Rule

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Suzee said... 38

As much as I want the truth to be told, I have to admit that if the movie isn't truthful, I'd rather it not be produced at all. There's no reason to make movie unless it can tell the truth and with the way Hollywood works, that's going to be a difficult task. It seems so easy; just use TFW's own words from her journals and e-mails but we know what happens when networks get involved with their only goal to make money.
______________

I agree, Suzee. Although Hollywood hasn't been knocking her door down with offers, I don't see them making a movie about her life that's close to what we've read in the book. Grabbing a child by the hair and spanking him into his crib? I think it would be sanitized to the point of being unrecognizable to what we read.

I'm also wondering what the effect of having a TV movie about Kate would have on the kids. If it's at all possible to have a true to life story told, I can't help but think the day at school and many days after that's on TV would be extremely difficult for them.

Ally said...

My Mugsy's birthday is December 4. He will be 3. My dad's birthday is December 1. So they get to share a birthday party. It's too comical for words. On his 1st birthday, he and my dad just looked at each other like, ok, now what? It really is too cute. He's such a spoiled "little man" as I call him...what to do for their birthday this year? My dad may end up with another cake in the shape of a dog bone. It's okay, they love each other.

Katie cry-duh said...


The tv movie...bwahahahaha. And Tori spelling could play Kate. Or Joan rivers. Or rupaul. TFW is THAT grotesque in the face these days.

Wonder if TFW buying a shitload of unnecessary butter could signal that she's currently in a manic state.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Wonder if TFW buying a shitload of unnecessary butter could signal that she's currently in a manic state.
_________________

Interesting. Very possible!

Hook 'em Horns said...

Fido...the family you are referring to is the Ayala family. They had Anissa, who needed a blood donor, but nobody in her family was a match. The only hope was a sibling. The father had to reverse his vasectomy, the baby had to be a girl, and had to be a match. What are the odds?? Anyhoo...they had baby Marissa, and at about 14 months she saved Anissa's life. I saw them on an update on the Today show not too long ago. Anissa is like 40 now! And Marissa is in her 20s.

Ex Nurse said...

I don't really think anyone is going to come out well in a movie that condenses down to 2 hours. I doubt that Jon is going to be painted as a heroic figure. I have a feeling that they will both be portrayed as caricatures.

Just because I am discussing it, doesn't mean I support it. Having invested way too much time and interest in that family, I am certainly going to comment on anything related to them.

Personally, IMO, RH is just the latest person to exploit the kids.

Anonymous said...

I want to see a scene where Kate and Jon go to speak to a church, then pass the plate for the children's college fund in the summer of 2008 when they were buying their mansion. It happened. I was there.
___________________

When you found out, why did you and the other church members report her for fraud so she could be stopped?

No blame, just asking.

91999

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

There's a Seinfeld episode for everything. I love this show. Remember the episode about butter? Jerry catches Kramer stealing his butter when he notices it smeared on Kramer's face. Kramer says it gives him a close shave and rejuvenates his skin, lol. Later on it's a sunny day and the butter makes him burn fiery red. Oh, so classic.

fidosmommy said...

The cookbook has reached 1,000 hardcover sales plus 86 Kindle editions. That's the total from all the Amazon sales, not Barnes and Noble or other sales.

Localyocul said...

#49
No I know when it was because my dd was away for the summer with her dad. My friend invites me to a talk at Solanco high school sponsored by a gee churches. Jon didn't talk and Kate said he liked to leave it to her. When they passed the plate my friend was going to donate. The vow renewals had been on People and I said "have you been to Hawaii ? She said but it's for the kids. Mind you her husband was laid off and they were struggling. I told her she was nuts. I didn't know about the house but figured they were much better off than my friend. The house information didn't come out until later. I also remember that they
Charged $ for an autograph. We said screw it and went to quarryville for ice cream instead

Localyocul said...

Oh I didn't belong to the church and neither did my friend. A group of churches apparently went in together. I'm Roman Catholic and they hot the fundamentalists

Anonymous said...

If you can shave Tommy's head, I'll be there, just don't ask me to hold Mr. Jones down.

ever.

(he scares even me a bit)

franky

Unknown said...

In MY opinion, Robert Hoffman is the HERO of this entire saga. Until Robert wrote his book, there was no documentation of KK's behavior. Robert managed to get the book on Amazon, and though it only lasted a few days, he told the tale.

Since then, Robert has not backed down a single inch. Robert has the proof of TFW's behavior, and knows that the proof of that truth is in his possession.

Jon reached the point in his life that it didn't matter to him what TFMJG had to say. His remarks reminded me of the words in Janis Joplin's song...''freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...''

Thanks to TFW's lawsuit, both Jon and Robert have wonderful attorneys.

Robert still hasn't backed off an inch. GO ROBERT!

Jeanne said...

Good ideas for Kendra, Tori, Leann to play Kate. But who will play her before the good bra? It's easier to start with someone with smaller boobs and then give her prosthetics. Maybe it would be better with two actresses since I don't think any part of her resembles her old self except those cold eyes.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I tend to agree with Remona. I think what has to be remembered is not everyone shares the same opinions on how best to help kids in this situation. For example, some people think it would be great if the whole thing was exposed on 60 Minutes while another reasonable person could say no that's not good that would be embarrassing to the children and hurt them more.

Robert's way of speaking out is to write books and do taunting posts on his web site and pursue a movie deal. I do believe he cares about these kids. His passage about Collin and the doughnuts was sincere. It is not venues or tactics I would choose to advance a cause but it doesn't mean because someone else does something very different than what you would do, they are "exploiting" anyone.

I look at it this way. One parent says Johnny it's best to just ignore the boy teasing you. Ignore him and he'll get bored and stop. Another parent says Johnny you need to fight back if you ever want this to stop. March straight up to that kid Monday morning and sock him in the nose. He'll never tease you again.

Both parents obviously don't want Johnny to be bullied. They just have very different ways of dealing with it and I doubt either one of them could understand the other's way.

Canadian Mom said...

Think About the Kids said... 31
I do agree, as said in #185, this type of movie, could be done with minimal reference to the kids...if done properly.
******************************
What difference does it make if there is minimal reference to the kids? How will having a TV movie made out of a tell-all about their mother help them in any way?



++++++++++++++++++++
I can't help but notice there are people on Jon's side, people on Kate's side but hardly ever do I hear anyone putting what the kids' best interest is first.

I think this movie thing is awful. Sure, I want to see Kate get her comeuppance one day. But NEVER in spite of the kids. Robert has blinders on. He says he feels so badly for the kids but how on earth is this 'movie' going to make them feel? My goodness, they've been through so much already on tv.

Even if the movie is never made, I'm sure they're going to hear ALL about it at school.

Pop your popcorn and enjoy the show, I guess. I'll keep an eye on remaining developments but I'll never *support* the kids' humiliation unless and until it is THEIR decision to talk.

JMO and I expect it won't be appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Amen Remona

go Robert!go Robert!

OT, anyone else love " The Neighbors?"

franky

musings said...

Tommy Lee Jones and I remembered how much I heart that man. We need to give him a part. Jon's father? We could shave his head.

Do you guys think A list actors would be interested or even cast if this gets filming? I don't, but I've been wrong before...

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Tee-hh no Musings. Pure snark from me at least. I mean Kristin Scott Thomas, nominated for an Oscar? I don't think so. Just a joke! These kind of movies tend to snag one semi-known B-lister (like that guy from Superman the T.V. show) and then fill in the rest of the cast with a bunch of unknowns from Canada, lol. IF any sort of movie gets off the ground I suspect they will try to find a few semi-knowns for Kate and Jon and then fill in the gaps from Canada.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Canadian Mom don't confuse snarking and joking around about a POSSIBLE movie (nothing is set in stone that we've heard) with a serious discussion about the benefits and drawbacks of putting this story on film.

At first blush, I would probably say no, a movie is not a good idea for the kids. All it will do is prolong this never-ending story that just won't die. But I think we wanted to have some fun today, and I cracked a smile for sure.

Susan2 said...

hopefully the network will be sensitive to viewers not wanted to see further exploitation of the kids.
*************************************
Sadly, networks are ALL about the $. Don't forget TLC didn't care about the kids, they simply wanted ratings when they filmed the divorce.

The only way, I see, having a documentary/movie produced that is sensitive to the kids' needs, would be if it was backed by A Minor Consideration or some other children's rights group.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Canadian Mom said... 57

JMO and I expect it won't be appreciated.
________________

I appreciate it very much.

Meagler said...

I believe TFW has changed her way a little tiny bit since the first appearance of Roberts book. I think she has " calmed" a bit. I dont think they kids are living the life they could be. I would hope she would be under even greater scrutiny after a movie, that she would really watch her behavior. That and maybe Jon would get more guardianship control.

I think the book or movie might stop any future reality tv shows of the kids or other explotative opportunities.

It might just open the eyes of the general public who are of the opinion that reality tv that involves children is not really an issue.

It is, and until the general public stops watching it and the likes of TLC continue to make money, the kids ( any kids) will continue to be filmed.

What has been done, is done. It is out there, and the kids will know about it at some point if not already. I wish it didnt have to be, but the reality is, it is.

if the movie could make a bad thing have some positive outcomes, then I will support it. As long as the kids are left out of it.

Not telling the story doesnt seem to be helping anyone either. People who think sweeping it under the rug helps the kids, might just be a TFW supporter IMO.

Anonymous said...

Canadian Mom, Canadian Kid here who, at 16 finally got rescued. My fosterfamily is the mold I raise my dd with.

So, yeah, U will snark.
'cause I know many more are looking after the 8 than ever did for me.

franky

Unknown said...

Everyone has their own opinion about what will or will not hurt the Gosselin children. It seems to me that they have lived every single day of the mess that is their lives. They KNOW what their mother has done, and how she acts now. I don't think that anything 'revealed' in a book or a movie would be a surprise to them.

While some think a book re-release or movie would humiliate the children, others think that their mother filing a law suit against their father is much more humiliating for them.

In my opinion, rather than worrying about the truth hurting the children, I tend to think that the truth would validate their feelings about what has been done to them/is continuing to be done to them by their mother, and her efforts at parental alienation!


Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


While some think a book re-release or movie would humiliate the children, others think that their mother filing a law suit against their father is much more humiliating for them.

&&&

And still others think unless she is stopped once and for all this is going to go on forever.

As I was typing this I saw Meagler pretty much said the same thing.

Sometimes things have to get worse for them to get better. Otherwise she may continue to torture Jon and the kids for years to come. Yes it can be hard to watch and concerning but what if it finally stopped her once and for all? This lawsuit is awful for the kids BUT.....it might finally stop her.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I mean Kristin Scott Thomas, nominated for an Oscar? I don't think so. Just a joke! These kind of movies tend to snag one semi-known B-lister (like that guy from Superman the T.V. show) and then fill in the rest of the cast with a bunch of unknowns from Canada, lol. IF any sort of movie gets off the ground I suspect they will try to find a few semi-knowns for Kate and Jon and then fill in the gaps from Canada.
_______________

Just one reason I call those movies crap. LOL

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

A lot of major actors and writers got their start in such movies. Emma Roberts, Joely Richardson, Kirstin Dunst and Hillary Swank, who later won an Oscar. I think a lot of them are crap but I'm telling you once in awhile they make a decent movie.

Canadian Mom said...

Thank you Tweet-le. And *waving hi* to franky!!

lPeople who think sweeping it under the rug helps the kids, might just be a TFW supporter IMO.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I'm definitely not a supporter of Kate, whatever that means. I don't seek out her tv appearances nor did I buy her book.

Please know I support only those dear children's rights.

Sweeping it under the rug is definitely NOT my opinion. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

ElvisFan said...

Ratclaws: James Brolin
Jon: Unsure about this one
Kate: Sharon Stone. Yes, she's older, but resembles Kate quite a bit IMO. Her demeanor is cold and aloof, and have you seen her play evil? Perfect! :)

Meagler said...

Hmmmm, I'm from Canada, maybe this could be my big break. I could be......

.......

Jaimie!!!!!

Silimom said...

Layla 14 - I had an interesting discussion with my friends a while back after hearing about this topic on NPR. You can google "Food Expiration Dates article" for more resources, but here's one to start with:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/19/health/sell-by-dates-waste-food/

lukebandit said...

Does anyone know how much the book will cost when it comes out?

fidosmommy said...

If TFW is so excited about her butter and cheese haul, I would think she'd post a picture of it all on her kitchen counter or neatly organized in her 5th pink freezer. Alas, no picture. Just like no pictures of the eggs or chickens she was squawking about before. No pictures from KATE?
The woman who tweets pictures of her towel shelves?

LifeinOH said...

Ingrid said... 44
Maybe she is paying her lawyer with butter and cheese
*************
Kate is a twit said... 106
81 lbs. of butter, 41 packages of cheese, all those eggs from 50 chickens, etc., she misnamed her cookbook. She should have named it:

Kate Gosselin: How She Fed the World!!
*********************
You guys are Hilarious! Count me in as excited about the movie & hoping the kids are treated respectfully & at a distance.

Vanessa said...

Personally, IMO, RH is just the latest person to exploit the kids.
****************************************************************************

I feel he's the whistle blower, the exposer, the one finally revealing the truth.
Just like any other whistle blower who has his/her motives questioned, he also is risking a lot. Like all whistle blowers, he had to make a huge decision affecting his life, family and future. His life has actually gotten worse since all this blew up. The negatives far out weigh the positives that have come from this. No exploitation here, he's BEHIND those kids 100%. He is brave enough to follow through with EXPOSING basically a "child abuse ring".

Localyocul said...

Frankly i love The Neighbors but haven't been able to catch it this fall! When is Irvin?

TLC stinks said...

I do not blame Robert for entertaining the idea of a movie proposal. He needs the money...thanks to Kate, and it will expose what kind of a parent she is which may finally get her to knock it off making her children's private lives public. We have been wanting some type of intervention for those kids. Everyone keeps quiet but Robert has the evidence. Not only that, but it will prove TLC was an enabler in her behavior. Now if Kate was leading a quiet, private life now I would feel differently, but that has not been the case.

She may not be raising her kids the way some of us like, and I normally don't judge other parents, but Kate continually and constantly makes her kids public figures, open to discussion. I do not believe a movie will negatively impact the kids as much as some here believe, but will impact Kate. It will shut her up and then maybe those kids will have some privacy.

URL said...

I think if a made for tv version ever comes out, it would be difficult for the producers to cast TFW unless the actress is relatively unknown. I can't imagine any well known actress wanting to portray her. Elizabeth Berkeley came to mind but I doubt she would put herself into this role.

Dwindle said...

I vote for a controversial actress that will bring a lot of media attention to the movie, such as Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bynes... I know! MILEY CYRUS! OK, maybe I am just kidding on that last one. But someone that will get the media to focus on the movie. What about RuPaul? Is he busy these days?

Go for it, Robert.

For Jon, I vote for sweet Steven Yeun. (As if he would ever. But I can hope!)

URL said...

Amanda Baynes is in long term rehab for a serious mental illness and hopefully she will recover but she she is too young to even consider this role. Lindsey Lohan is also too young and is also still dealing with her addictions. And let's face it, TfW is isn't even a d-list celebrity. My guess is if a Lifetime or similar movie would be made, TFW will be portrayed by some relatively unknown actress or someone who has been out of work for sometime. I don't believe any other actress would want with this role.

Lalalalala said...

Kate said very recently that she doesn't regret ANYTHIING. To me that says she has done absolutely no introspection on her life. She has learned nothing from past experiences. This also tells me that she is still abusing her kids and everyone around her. I hope, with everything in me, that this movie is made. If Kate doesn't want to face reality and the consequences that follow her horrible behavior then that's her problem but the kids are sucked into this vapid, dark empty vortex that is her soul every minute of every day. These kids need validation that what's happening to them is NOT OK. Her abuse needs to become as public as possible. She needs to be stopped. If Robert can do it, then hurray for Robert!

Berks Neighbor said...

Just a thought, but if the movie was made from the perspective of Robert and his wife I think it would be great. In a way TFW has been battling them from the very beginning for trying to tell the truth about the situation. Minimal kids stuff, more on the truth being told and flashbacks of the life of TFW and Jon could add the meat to the story.

jillygee said...

Katherine Heigl...lol....she can't get work due to her bitchy personality either.

Call Me Crazy said...

I think it is quite possible that a documentary will be made at some point in the future. However, it will be many years down the road, after the fallout from this type of reality show has been assessed. It will also depend on what happens to the kids.

It was many decades after their birth that stories/documentaries came out focusing on the Dionne quintuplets and exposing their exploitation and the harm it did. It's a shame that greed caused history to repeat itself on an even bigger scale.

TLC stinks said...

I agree that a Robert is a whistle blower. One thing I hold fault with Jon was that he was present when Kate abused those kids.

Robert said he interviewed former crew members and the abuse was edited out. Further, when he discovered the journal he contacted CPS twice in 2010 with evidence from her journal. Of course, it is 2013 now and the kids aren't toddlers anymore, but isn't it about time the kids and Kate get some counseling? Maybe a movie will humiliate her enough to admit she needs help, well, one can only hope. If she can't be humiliated, maybe her enablers like Steve and Jamie will be.

TLC stinks said...

Correct, Lala. The kids need to understand that the way she treats them is NOT normal nor ok.

Anonymous said...

If it hadn't been used already, "12 Years A Slave" would've been a good title for the TFW TV movie.

Harvest Moon said...

I agree that a Robert is a whistle blower. One thing I hold fault with Jon was that he was present when Kate abused those kids.

&&&&&&&&&&&&

The thing is that nobody knows exactly what went on behind closed doors. We don't know to what extent he witnessed abuse, if it occurred when he was around. We don't know what his mindset was at that time. If she were hell to live with, it could be that he knew that nothing would stop her and anything he did or tried to do would set her off and make it much worse. In fact, we don't even know at all what he did to stop it, but with no positive result.

Ex Nurse said...

Canadian Mom, thanks for weighing in--ITA. There is always going to be someone on this blog that tries to silence anyone who doesn't agree with them. The insinuation that anyone who is against the commercialization of 8 kids lives must be a TFW fan is insulting.

In just 6 years for the twins, and 9 years for the tups, they can speak for themselves. They are all getting to the age when they can also speak up for which parent they want to live with--maybe they already have.

For the life of me, I can't understand justifying this movie as a positive thing for that family. How many times have people insisted, with 100% certainty, that TFW is incapable of change. How is the movie going to "finally stop" her?

I care much more for the privacy and protection of the kids much more than I need to see TFW go down on the public stage, once and for all. Her fame is over, she is now infamous, sliding quickly into notoriety. She will not be getting a chair. a mic or any other platform--this lawsuit was the final act of career suicide. No one will ever work with her. Why isn't that enough?

Why is it that when the mother of the kids mentions any of them, she is exploiting them, and selling the rights to a book based on her memoirs is not?

A serious documentary, or a 60 minutes report is completely different from a made for TV movie. I agree that there could be some value in casting a light on the reality behind these reality shows. I sincerely doubt that Paul Petersen would, in any way, endorse this movie, or be involved in any such project until the kids were of an age to give legal consent.

Jon has gone to great lengths to try to give the kids a normal childhood. How does this further that goal?

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

One thing I hold fault with Jon was that he was present when Kate abused those kids.


***

Actually, it's impossible to tell from Kate's entries if Jon was present. In fact in several of the entries she makes it crystal clear that it was being ALONE with the kids while Jon was off at work that made her lose it on them. If the journals were more clear about what Jon knew or didn't knew I'd be more angry with him. It's still an unknown for me.

Dwindle said...

Anonymous said... 18
I'd rather see an in-depth documentary/exposé. I want real people interviewed. Forget trying to tell this "story" with a movie. It wouldn't be as hard-hitting as it needs to be. Maybe it could be aired on Discovery.

PJ
4444444444444444

Wouldn't Discovery have a great deal of interest in NOT seeing this movie made? What did they know and when did they know it. Which leads me to my caveat, Robert. Any one posing as anyone else can buy the rights to your book and then shove it in a drawer for eternity. The money might be nice for you, but is there a way to make sure a movie actually does get made? And then broadcast? Dean Koontz was burned on his wildly popular "Odd Thomas". The movie got made alright, with a great cast, and all it ended up with is a release in Europe on DVD with Hungarian voice dubbing. No American release and it was supposed to be a major big screen movie. Legal crap happens even to those with the best of intentions. The Kennedy movie that Katie Holmes was in barely made to broadcast.

I agree with others: 60 Minutes would be ideal wouldn't it? Unless they are partly owned by Discovery too...

Don't mind me; I am still suspicious about the grassy knoll.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


I feel he's the whistle blower, the exposer, the one finally revealing the truth.

&&&

Someone always turns it around on the whistle blower. Always. It's infuriating and it's why PEOPLE DON'T SPEAK UP. Because people TURN on you. People shoot the messenger, always, as the cliche goes. Unless and until people encourage and support those who speak up about abuse we will continue to see tragedies like Penn State happen. People were afraid to speak up, pure and simple. They were afraid for themselves. Afraid people would turn it around on THEM. Afraid people would SHOOT THE MESSENGER.

Speaking of Penn State, Jonathan Mahler wrote a book about the sex abuse and the coach's fall from grace. Bill Moushey also wrote a book about the sex abuse and the culture of silence. Even the Patriot-News which is a newspaper in central PA got together and wrote a book called "Hear no Evil" about what happened. Still someone else wrote a book about how the football team recovered to be a contender again.

All of these people were seeking to expose and explain what happened. But by some people's logic, all they are doing is further exploiting the sex abuse and making money off those kids.

I simply don't buy into that. I think they are all whistle blowers and journalists and story tellers who write to understand and expose. I don't think it's wrong.

Ex Nurse said...

This is from Paul Petersen's website, A Minor Consideration. It is a letter to TLC about filming during the divorce. 

http://www.minorcon.org/jon_kate3.html

"These children are floundering between two incapable parents in the midst of a marriage breakup while trying to raise eight children and be on a reality TV show. Raising any family is hard at the best of times; harder when your family, friends and the 5 million people a week tune in to see it. 

THIS IS EMOTIONAL ABUSE AT ITS FINEST; NOW AND PARTICULARLY WHEN IT IS REVISITED IN THE CHILDREN'S FUTURE. THESE CHILDREN ARE BEING SCARRED FOR LIFE. "

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Dwindle I think you're talking about options and I bet Robert is too. The first step to making a movie is usually to option your book. It is NO guarantee anything will happen which is why this is all just talk right now. I'll believe it when I see it.

I can't tell you how many times I heard someone go on and on about some great book or script and what a great movie it's going to be, only to have nothing ever happen. Anything could snag things up at any time. I don't think people realize either how many pilots are shot that never see the light of day. As in the vast majority of pilots. It seems like a huge waste of money to me but it's how it works. What's sad is some newbie actor gets all excited and worked up only to never see their face hit the screen. If I recall this is what happened to Preesly from that child star show a few times.

Amy2 said...

This book is going to expose much more than Kate. It's going to shine a light on children in reality shows. When RH makes the talk show circuit to discuss his book and subsequent monie, I bet dollars to donuts his going to discuss exploition of children on these shows. Taking it one step further then shows (Toddlers/Tiaras, Honey Boo Boo, Little Couple, Roloff's show, etc) which have children on them will be subject to much discussion. TLC, Discovery Channel will have to explain what they have done to create a positive work environment for these children even though the law may not require it. And there's the rub "work environment". What constitutes work on reality shows?

I truly hope that the movie comes out. The Gosselin children have lived it, and they are most likely reading about themselves and their parents on the internet. They know the bad things that happened to them when they were filming and when they weren't filming. The only difference is the public is going to (hopefully) know also.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Not telling the story doesnt seem to be helping anyone either. People who think sweeping it under the rug helps the kids, might just be a TFW supporter IMO.
___________________

I guess that includes me, someone who's been here commenting about my feelings on Kate's abuse, grifting, lying for years? LOL If I don't agree with everything that's said here, I'm a supporter of Kate? That's not at all true. Because I present an opposing opinion means I'm not a sheep and not afraid of saying what I think even if it goes against what everyone else is saying at the time. Pure and simple. If Canadian Mom is a Kate supporter I still happen to agree with what she said. If agreeing with a Kate supporter on one particular point makes one a Kate supporter here, then I certainly won't be happy expressing an opposing view if the opportunity presents itself again. I'll be sure and keep that in mind.

I doubt the kids know everything that went on behind the scenes when they were younger. I doubt they know about Kate's emails for example, where she whined to TLC about her Ann Taylor account needing to be filled again, her apologies to Gina about getting drunk, her and Jon's participation in conning the people at churches out of their money while they were in the process of buying a million dollar home. But if they do I seriously doubt they'll be thanking everyone involved in a movie for exposing it all on national television and saying, "Whew, at last our dysfunctional family has been exposed to the world and now things will get better."

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

It's hard to predict how kids will feel about things, which is part of the problem with saying "this is how it should be for the best interest of the kids!" when no one can say for sure what the kids want and need. For instance, someday the kids will understand that because of them Rep. Murt pushed through better child labor laws. Some might be embarrassed by that, or feel that he misunderstood their situation. But there's also a possibility some of them might feel proud and empowered by that knowledge. That changes were made to make things better because of them. Same goes for anything else, including books and movies and blogs.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Ex Nurse said... 92 said
For the life of me, I can't understand justifying this movie as a positive thing for that family. How many times have people insisted, with 100% certainty, that TFW is incapable of change. How is the movie going to "finally stop" her?

I care much more for the privacy and protection of the kids much more than I need to see TFW go down on the public stage, once and for all. Her fame is over, she is now infamous, sliding quickly into notoriety. She will not be getting a chair. a mic or any other platform--this lawsuit was the final act of career suicide. No one will ever work with her. Why isn't that enough?
___________

I agree. Furthermore it's been said here time and again kids want to fit in at their ages, not stand out. Which is true. Going back to school the day after a movie about their family is on television could be utterly humiliating for them.

capecodmama said...

How about Heidi Montag Pratt playing the part of TFW? She's a bleached blonde former D-list reality star who, like TFW, has had so much plastic surgery she looks nothing like her former self. I know she's younger than TFW but makeup artists can do wonders. And what about her "pratt" of a husband, Spencer, playing Ratclaws? He's much younger than the Kiwi but again think makeup artists and a wig.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/19/health/sell-by-dates-waste-food/

&&&

I don't usually look at use by dates. The only thing I've found them to be pretty accurate on his milk. If it's past the use by date and you take a sniff, the milk is probably going south by then, I've found. Many other foods I've found don't taste as "strong" if you leave it sitting in the freezer for ages. They taste dull and usually by then have freezer burn even in air tight packages. The freezer was never intended to be a post apocalyptic storehouse. It was supposed to let you freeze meat and leftovers a few weeks so you could still enjoy them and not have to throw food out. IMO, it's being misused and we're eating food that could be better if we didn't stockpile so much.

Taste, smell, touch, and look usually tell you if the food is bad. But for butter it really is only 2-3 weeks, 4 at max, before it starts picking up the odors of the fridge or freezer. I believe it is "safe" to eat and I have eaten it. But it can ruin the dish. Who cares though if the kids' food tastes off, Kate doesn't have to eat it. She can eat her salads.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I imagine the lawsuit is also "humiliating" for them at school as well as any time Kate makes a fool of herself on T.V., and such shenanigans from their mother are likely to go on and on and on the rest of their childhoods unless someone, anyone shuts her down.

getofftwitter said...

Admin: That is true, about the stores, they do rotate their food for sale, so if you wait, your favorite foods go on sale every 3-6 weeks. But in the case of anything marked down 50%, and is like butter, eggs, cheese, milk etc, is cause they are near the expiration date. So instead of sending back(which some do) or donating(which a lot of them do), or tossing(a small amount do), the stores will mark down to get the last penny out of merchandise. The stores where I live mark down damaged boxes, stuff that is out of code, and near expiration date. They also will mark down veggies and fruit that is starting to go bad, for quick sale. Also meat ends, day old bread & bakery, you can get some real good deals. But you do have to know what you are buying, how long it will last and how quick you are going to use it, etc. But buying 81 lbs of butter, then saying well I only use it for baking, it nuts. Butter has a strange way of picking up every oder in ones frig or freezer. I can see the Duggars using that much butter in a short period of time, but not Kate. And besides, I've read and heard that organic anything, goes bad quicker than normal stuff. But this is Kate, and she may eat fresh good food, but feed and uses, non-organic, canned, old, stale, near expiration date foods for kids, cause it is cheaper, more money in her pocket, not kids. To use the Duggars motto: buy cheap(for kids), save the difference(for Kate herself).

Lalalalala said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 104

*********

I was just going to say the same thing, Admin. It's not like the people in community where they live haven't known about what's been going on for a long time. They have their dear mother to blame for whatever embarrassment may come their way and will continue to come their way. They live it, day in and day out.

Anonymous said...

Ex Nurse,
With all due respect I completely disagree. It is never ok to turn a blind eye to child physical and or emotional abuse. Bringing it to light is not exploiting it. It's trying to bring awareness to get it stopped. He has tried, unsuccessfully. Bringing more awareness to it and getting more involved may be the only way. Additionally, I question whether you read Roberts original book? It was focused on KATE! Not the kids. Sure they were in it, but they are not the focus. Kate's behaviors and statements not only to her kids but Jon, former friends, family, coworkers and employees was just as important. E true Hollywood story did an episode on Kate and it focused on her, not the kids. A possible movie does not NECESSITATE focus on the children. It can focus on Kate's behavior from many facets.

Layla said...

Think About the Kids (31) said...
What difference does it make if there is minimal reference to the kids? How will having a TV movie made out of a tell-all about their mother help them in any way?
*******************
Having a TV movie made about their mother's wrongdoings might just teach the kids a few lessons that they will never learn from her. They may learn that there are consequences to everyone's actions, no matter how many kids they have. That lying, defrauding, and taking from others indiscriminately is not okay. That there is value to hard work, even if it's not on TV. That they, and their mother, are not above all others just because they are Gosselins. They have grown up with a mother who hit them, yanked them around by their hair, threw them into cribs. They saw her pummel their father. She even hit Emeril when he was there visiting. Is there anyone there to tell them that this kind of behavior is not okay? Certainly not their mother, who is the one teaching them that it when one becomes frustrated, it is okay to hit.
Who is there to tell them that it is not okay to lie to churches and take money from people with far less than you have, just because you want to? Who teaches them that money is not the greatest glory in life? Who is going to teach them that it is okay to become teachers and bakers, and not sit around refusing to work unless they're on TV? Who will tell them that they're not mediocre if they do become teachers, or construction workers, or IT analysts, or anything else not media-related?
If this movie does come to fruition, it may open the kids' eyes to some aspects of reality that they aren't taught at home. It may give them the courage to stand up to abuse, to say "no" when they see someone doing something wrong, and hopefully to stop themselves before they repeat their mother's mistakes.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

I imagine the lawsuit is also "humiliating" for them at school as well as any time Kate makes a fool of herself on T.V.,

=====

I would hope that their classmates are more concerned with other things at school than worrying about a lawsuit that they most likely don't even know about -- like the older girls deciding what to wear to the Middle School dance, play practices, field trips, projects, and the younger kids planning their class participation in a Halloween festival, their lessons, and other school activities. Lawsuits that the kids' parents are involved in really don't take priority in the lives of their peers.

At least I would hope not...

TLC stinks said...

The chances of Robert's book becoming a movie are really slim to none, so it is really moot as to how this will affect the kids. The issue is that the kids are already "broken" by Kate and she will never let them have true privacy. To be sure, there is silent privacy and then the semi-privacy of Kate's world to be tweeted and blogged about all in terms of what Kate wants the world to perceive. You can wish for "silent" privacy all you want, but those kids are never going to experience it. Never. It would be awesome for once for somebody to not be steamrolled by Kate and just speak for the kids. Kevin and Jodi tried. Where are they now? Oh, yeah, privacy for them. Why did they back off? So the cycle continues and Kate continues to exploit her children and who knows what else. This is why bad stuff happens to innocent kids.

The only people who are standing up to her now are Jon and Robert.


Fleecing The Sheeple said...

I believe it is "safe" to eat and I have eaten it. But it can ruin the dish. Who cares though if the kids' food tastes off, Kate doesn't have to eat it. She can eat her salads.

==============

Yes, and unless she butters her salad, she has nothing to worry about for herself. I wonder if she does the "sniff" test when she unfreezes her apocalyptic stash.

Berks Neighbor said...

What's going to be more embarassing to the kids - a movie about their mom or the hours of video available to public via youtube, netflix, etc. of their mom 'actually' treating their dad and others like vile pieces of crap, the constant humiliating tweets of 'H--- pooped in H---'s unnerwears" or even the embarrassment of one of the tups having to wear one of the twins underwear and the upset twin who was filmed for entertainment (this was at the Grand Canyon)? There should be a comeuppance for TFW. She has humiliated her children for the enjoyment of others and for the filling of her purse so that she can increasingly inflate her chest and shoot chemicals into her face.
I'm sick of her always getting away with the crap she has pulled. This movie would not humiliate the kids - their mother has the distinct reputation of doing that already and continually humiliating them and infantizing them through her incessant tweets.

JoyinVirginia said...

Cape cod mama, what a brilliant idea about Heidi and Spencer! I think they would be great as TFMJG and Purse Boy!

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

Someone always turns it around on the whistle blower. Always. It's infuriating and it's why PEOPLE DON'T SPEAK UP. Because people TURN on you. People shoot the messenger, always, as the cliche goes. Unless and until people encourage and support those who speak up about abuse we will continue to see tragedies like Penn State happen. People were afraid to speak up, pure and simple. They were afraid for themselves. Afraid people would turn it around on THEM. Afraid people would SHOOT THE MESSENGER.

==============

Yes, and there was a tweet last night from a sheeple, which just about says it all when it comes to exposing abuse. This stick-your-head-in-the-sand stance is so scary, so irresponsible. The fan tweeted that it is none of our business what Kate did to the kids.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Fleecing The Sheeple said... 109
I would hope that their classmates are more concerned with other things at school than worrying about a lawsuit that they most likely don't even know about -- like the older girls deciding what to wear to the Middle School dance, play practices, field trips, projects, and the younger kids planning their class participation in a Halloween festival, their lessons, and other school activities. Lawsuits that the kids' parents are involved in really don't take priority in the lives of their peers.

At least I would hope not...
________________

I would hope not as well. However, a movie for TV is another matter entirely, IMO. It will reach millions of homes.

Vanessa said...

Never. It would be awesome for once for somebody to not be steamrolled by Kate and just speak for the kids. Kevin and Jodi tried. Where are they now? Oh, yeah, privacy for them. Why did they back off? So the cycle continues and Kate continues to exploit her children and who knows what else. This is why bad stuff happens to innocent kids.

The only people who are standing up to her now are Jon and Robert.

**************************************************************
Applause applause!

PatK said...

Does anyone actually think these kids are going to survive being Kate's kids WITHOUT suffering humiliation at some point along the way? Come on. We've already seen videotaped examples of how they've suffered humiliation by her own hand. It's on her...not the rest of the world.

AuntieAnn said...

The Safeway store where I usually shop, since I can practically see it from my window, always has two or three grocery carts full of canned goods that are close to expiry and an assortment of other goods. The other day there were all sizes of Glad garbage bags in one of them at 50% off so I bought a couple of each. There were packaged foods like Knorr's Pasta Sides - which at any price is a waste as far as I'm concerned, and boxed rices like Uncle Ben's and such things. There were weird little kitchen gadgets tossed in there too.

What occurs to me whenever I look into those "bargain carts" is that we're living in a world of junk and waste. A lot of those things will never be used. What happens to them after they can't even give the stuff away?

Tucker's Mom said...

I'm not sure about how I feel regarding a movie. I truly feel that the book needs to come out again, and soon, I hope.
I did buy the book, and have been reading it again... slowly. The first go-round, I read it voraciously. There's so much to take in. But now, as I'm reading it again, little bit by little bit, I can tell you-- it's even more unsettling.
I'm not sure why, but the things that bothered me before, are magnified ten fold. The abuse, the cons, the self-centeredness, the greed. Oh my God, the greed.
I believe the book to be true. I do. It makes it so much worse to read, and I feel for these children who have to live with Kate.
I think some people, well, many people, and some even here, believe Kate's lies-- her twitter version of life. After all, it sounds so nice, doesn't it? And, who could lie like that?
The woman who looks people IN THE EYE and says she hasn't had a boob job. The woman who said sacred vows to renew her marriage and told her precious little children that she and their Daddy would be together forever for the sake of ratings and a free vacation, that's who.
(p.s. shame on you, Gina and Steve, for sucking onto this freebie just because you could. You make me sick. You KNEW better and you KNEW the truth. Judas and his 30 pieces of silver's got nothing on you.)

Martha said...

Berk's neighbour, et al..enjoyed a good deep breath after reading your comments.
Also, loved "Liars" comment:..she lies for sport!

Fleecing The Sheeple said...


I would hope not as well. However, a movie for TV is another matter entirely, IMO. It will reach millions of homes.

==============

Right...if millions still care enough about what Kate did or didn't do. I'm not so sure she still holds that much appeal that anyone would even bother. But the initial comment was about the kids being humiliated at school about the lawsuit. I really doubt if the parents of their peers are going to make their kids sit down and watch a television movie about the parent of one of their classmates, and I don't think a kid would say, "Oh, look what's on television tonight! The Kate Gosselin story. Pass the popcorn."

Will they find out about it? Quite possibly, but would a third grader watch the movie and then go to school to torment the kids about it? I don't know. Kids have other things on their minds, and something like that blows over quickly and they'll move on to something else.

I'm on the fence about the movie. Exposing Kate is one thing; involving the kids in it is another. Tough call...

Hoosier Girl said...

If there is a 'movie' I'd hope it was a documentary. What's that channel that shows the documentaries on people like the Kardashians?

Those shows just use footage already out there with interviews from interested parties. I'd hope some of those interested parties from TLC or hire-a-nanny would step up to the plate.

TLC stinks said...

ITA that a movie would focus mostly on Kate because the book is based upon HER journal. The kids are integral to the story, but it's about a time when they were tiny, not about them at present. If anything, I would think their peers would sympathize with them. I would venture the parents, teachers and students are well aware of Kate's antics, have formed unfavorable opinions but don't blame the kids (unless some of the G kids are stuck-up, then it would be understandable they would be teased).

Layla said...

Fleecing the Sheeple (114) said...
Yes, and there was a tweet last night from a sheeple, which just about says it all when it comes to exposing abuse. This stick-your-head-in-the-sand stance is so scary, so irresponsible. The fan tweeted that it is none of our business what Kate did to the kids
****************
The sheeple are a scary bunch, aren't they? Remember when one of them tweeted (I think it was around the time CWS was filmed) that Kate should instruct the kids to never tell Jon anything, and that she should tell them that their father is the enemy? It's sociopathic. Where is their concern for the well-being of the kids? The kids are just objects attached to Kate, there only for Kate to use, abuse, and discard if she so chooses, according to them. It's frightening.

Layla said...

Another of Milo's mind-boggling tweets:

A negative person's opinion is of NO value..because it's an assessment based on a warped/distorted view of a beautiful reality
******
A beautiful reality? She is so far gone, she will never find her way back to reality. There is no beauty in beating babies, in greed, in lying and scamming and abusing everyine in one's life.
Milo has bought into the fantasy of TFW's Twitter life. The one where everything is always sunny and perfect, everyone is always happy, and TFW is adored beyone words by the whole world. Anything that does not come directly from TFW does not exist. Beautiful reality, my foot!

Hoosier Girl said...

TLC stinks said... 123
_________

You know, I guess I'd always just thought about the non-fans buying Robert's book. I truly didn't think about anyone else being interested.

I wonder how many relatives, former volunteers/employees, neighbors, teachers, and other students' parents downloaded that book?

Robert may have sold a lot more than I have been giving him credit for :-)

High Sodium Content said...

For the movie the part of Milo (the Catfish) should be played by the guy who said he killed Jon Bonnett - he was/is creepy.

If there is a movie offer, IMO it's probably a low budget, thing like Lifetime. I'd be for the movie if it was 99% focus on Kate, and house she mater minded the plot to become rich and never have to work again a day in her life, minimal exposure of the kids, especially the beating given to Mady for being a (brat) don't think she was, she was just desperate attention from her own mother, thank God for Jon. On the down side, feel bad for any extra attention focused on the kids, their life at school is going to become unbareable. If Kate were the devoted mother she plays in her own mind, she should strike a deal w/ Jon, Robert, any other of her money grabbing lawsuits she has in mind, end the lawsuits, pay the damages she has caused, get off twitter and end her devotion to herself to reinact her "TV career". But, Kate is only into anything for Kate.

Millicent said...

TLC stinks said... 110

The chances of Robert's book becoming a movie are really slim to none, so it is really moot as to how this will affect the kids.
*******
I was thinking the same thing. For good or bad, TFW and the 8 Gosselin children have been off television long enough that they are "old news" and I think most producers would not be interested in making a docu-drama or other movie about the truth behind TFW's facade.

Tucker's Mom - I still have Robert's first edition of his book on my computer as well, but it's so difficult to read. I too believe that what he shared in the book is true - and that Kate is truly a scary and vile person who should never be allowed around children, much less have control over the 8 children who have lived life under her thumb from day one.

Millicent said...

Ex Nurse said:
She will not be getting a chair. a mic or any other platform--this lawsuit was the final act of career suicide. No one will ever work with her. Why isn't that enough?
*******
What initially drew me to look online for forums that were discussed Jon & Kate Plus 8 was my growing realization that Kate was not normal, and was in fact, a really awful mother. I was upset by the things she said, the things she did, and my primary concern was for the children involved. That has always been my primary concern.

If Kate was a childless woman who belittled her husband, I would not like her, but I would have long since moved on.

When you ask, why isn't it enough that Kate will never again have a career as some d-list celebrity, I can answer that. It will not be enough for me until I know those children are no longer in her presence or under her control.

If the day comes that Jon gets 100% custody and she has nothing but supervised visits - that will be enough for me. I won't care about her antics after that.

If Jon never gets full custody, then I guess I'll stop caring once the children are adults and hopefully can break free and move away from their toxic mother -- than that will be enough for me.

When the day comes that anyone on tv stops pretending that she's this harried yet loving mother of 8, that's the day I'll have enough of discussing this worthless woman.

As others have pointed out -- when children are abused, it is not okay to sweep it under the rug in the supposed interest of "protecting their privacy." It is much more important to actually do whatever one can to PROTECT them from their abuser. Privacy is what they need once the abuse is exposed, and they have been removed from the abusive situation. As long as they remain in the abusive situation, silence and more covering up/pretending everything is okay is the last thing they need.

Tucker's Mom said...

Millicent said... 128
*********
A lot got under my skin when re-reading Robert's book. One thing that stands out is Kate's erratic driving. I would not drive like a lunatic with just me in the car-- or even my dogs! I don't care if papparzzi are following Kate. She took her life, her kids' lives and the lives of everyone on the road in her hands. It is absolutely chilling and horrifying to read how she drove at break-neck speeds and cut across lanes of traffic.
Worse, the local police turned a blind eye to the accident waiting to happen. If I were a PA taxpayer, I'd be hopping mad that my money was going to escorting Kate around PA and officers carrying her luggage around for her.
I don't know from where Robert got his patience to deal with these Barney Fifes.

fidosmommy said...

When movies have been made of real life stories, sometimes they change the names of the characters who are minors. There was a movie about 3 teen girls who committed a crime together and the script gave them fictitious names. So, if a movie about Life with Kate and TCL came out, the children could be Lindsey, Trish, David, Michelle.........

That way only people who have read the book would connect the incident about the diaper explosion after 5, FIVE, days of potty training with the actual child involved. The story can be told, exposing the events, but not pinpointing who it was. The child would barely have to be on screen. Just David, Michelle and siblings playing on the floor in the background while Kate talks on her 3rd iPhone and then starts shrieking.

We could then hear excerpts from her journal about how she punished her child.

Just a thought.

Sheri said...

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...(64)

Canadian Mom said...(57)

JMO and I expect it won't be appreciated.
________________

"I appreciate it very much."

*********************************

I also appreciate your perspective Canadian Mom.

I too am hesitant to get excited about the prospect of a made for T.V. movie about the Gosselins. Though it would be karmic justice to see Kate's lies and greed exposed to a wider audience, I have serious doubts that the kids would benefit at all.

IMO, a movie simply sensationalizes further the trauma the kids have already suffered. Even if they are unaware of the finer points of their own exploitation, how does a movie that details those issues actually help them?

They are only 13 and 9 years old. If they are not old enough to have a say in the matter, to either approve or contest the making of a movie, how is it different from the original exploitation?

The book by itself, as a record of facts filled with Kate's own words, is different, again, IMO. There is little interpretation to be had in that respect and Mr. Hoffman said himself that any proceeds from the sale of the book would go to a charity that deals with abused children.

But a movie is a whole other kettle of fish. A great many people stand to benefit financially from that kind of production.

A network, producers, scriptwriters, actors and crew would all make money off the retelling of 8 kids' already well documented trauma.

I can support the book as it stands to reveal the depth of Kate's exploitation and abuse of her children, in her own words.

I just can't be excited by the idea of a dramatized and sensationalized version that stands to do little more than getting a few more eyeballs watching television.

If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I just see them as two completely different things.

For the record, this DOES NOT mean I am a Kate supporter in any way, shape or form. My concern has always been first and foremost the 8 children caught in the middle of this shit storm.

I sincerely hope I have not offended anyone with this commentary. It's all just my humble opinion and I'm making no judgement about how anyone else feels.

Amy2 said...

Millicent said... 128
TLC stinks said... 110
The chances of Robert's book becoming a movie are really slim to none, so it is really moot as to how this will affect the kids.
*******
I was thinking the same thing. For good or bad, TFW and the 8 Gosselin children have been off television long enough that they are "old news" and I think most producers would not be interested in making a docu-drama or other movie about the truth behind TFW's facade.
_______________________
I respectfully disagree. 20 years after a crime incident (he was the victim, not shooter) occurred my brother-in-law was still being approached by several Hollywood producers to do a movie about his life. Yes, its true, he was no longer mainstream news but what occurred in that point and time had a far reaching impact. I'm talking views of death row inmates and changes in the law. I'm not going to get into a discussion about death penalty, that's not my point.

The point is the Gosselin Saga could be ground breaking for the long-term affects of reality shows on children and the lack of federal laws to protect them. Yes, their story is "old news" but the problems with children in the entertainment industry this saga brings to light is important.

The Gosselin children lived it because of decisions their parents made on their behalf. They have no rights. A light needs to shined on this disgusting entertainment practice. And as much as I prefer the children not be a part of it, unfortunately, they did because of their parents. Having these children's childhood being taking away from them and given to the public for fame and money just makes me mad.

AuntieAnn said...

Tucker's Mom said... 119

I'm not sure why, but the things that bothered me before, are magnified ten fold. The abuse, the cons, the self-centeredness, the greed. Oh my God, the greed.

====

I think I know why, since the same thing has happened to me every time I go back and read the book. It enrages me because even after all her abuse and lying and scamming has been exposed, she still thinks her shit doesn't stink.

She hasn't even made an attempt to curb her entitlement issues, to stop exploiting her kids, to stop publicly grifting on twitter, to give up her constant attempts to get back on tv, writing asisine books, pursuing lawsuits or anything else the ditzy idiot does. Her mine-all-mine mindset is out of control. She hasn't even tried to humble herself in any way, shape or form. It's like her narcissism has metastasized, for lack of a better word.

localyocul said...

The sheep are ridiculous when they talk about TFW being positive. She's one of the most negative people I've ever see on television. NO rolling in the grass! No coloring with markers at the marker factory! NO carving more until I roll up this paper! NO entering my room under penalty of severeness! No splashing mommy or NO dinner! I tried to get this peanut butter out of your incredibly important lovey for 2 seconds and I couldn't so it's going in the trash!

Tucker's Mom said...

Who is there to tell them that it is not okay to lie to churches and take money from people with far less than you have, just because you want to? Who teaches them that money is not the greatest glory in life?
*******
... and that God isn't an ATM machine.
Seriously, Kate thinks that God exists to "bless" her with money, things and even good weather. That's right, what God thinks about is making the weather sunny for Kate Gosselin.

LancasterCountyMom said...

Berks Neighbor said... 85
Just a thought, but if the movie was made from the perspective of Robert and his wife I think it would be great. In a way TFW has been battling them from the very beginning for trying to tell the truth about the situation. Minimal kids stuff, more on the truth being told and flashbacks of the life of TFW and Jon could add the meat to the story.
.................

Berks - I kinda like that idea!!

AuntieAnn said...

Another of Milo's mind-boggling tweets:

A negative person's opinion is of NO value..because it's an assessment based on a warped/distorted view of a beautiful reality
******
====

I've come to the conclusion that Milo is an elderly closet lesbian hopelessly in love with TFW, living in a seniors residence with LOM, probably with assisted living or at least under moderate supervision. IMO.

Over In TFW's County said...

I'm not sure why, but the things that bothered me before, are magnified ten fold. The abuse, the cons, the self-centeredness, the greed. Oh my God, the greed.

+++++++++++

I think that what angers me the most (in addition to the child exploitation) is the con that was pulled on those gullible people who went to hear the spiel, and reached into their pockets when Kate knew darn well they were settling on a million dollar home. Didn't she write in her notes something about how were they going to explain the purchase of that property?

Moreover, it would be nice, once millions were made, if they paid back the state (and taxpayers) for the money they took for nursing care. I'm so glad PA had a backbone and refused to do it for another year.

Yes, it's the greed, the entitlement, the getting everything for nothing that's so bad about the whole saga. And it continues.

Vanessa said...

Applause for you too Millicent @ 129

Formerly Duped said...

TLC stinks said... 110

The chances of Robert's book becoming a movie are really slim to none, so it is really moot as to how this will affect the kids. The issue is that the kids are already "broken" by Kate and she will never let them have true privacy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree with this. I also understand the posters who feel Kate is the only one to blame if a film does come to light, and the things portrayed DID happen.It would be just one more humiliation for them. They know more than TFW admits, despite her insisting she is keeping tabs on internet use by the kids etc. I thought it was telling when Mady said she used to creep downstairs and watch Kendra's show The Girls Next Door or maybe Kendra On Top? What else do the children do while Kate sleeps blissfully in her locked bedroom? Even as toddlers they manged to trash the nursery and she was not aware of furniture falling over, glass breaking, drywall destroyed, kids running around naked covered in feces- and Carla was called to clean it all up.

Over In TFW's County said...

A negative person's opinion is of NO value..because it's an assessment based on a warped/distorted view of a beautiful reality
******
A beautiful reality? She is so far gone, she will never find her way back to reality. There is no beauty in beating babies, in greed, in lying and scamming and abusing everyine in one's life.
Milo has bought into the fantasy of TFW's Twitter life. The one where everything is always sunny and perfect, everyone is always happy, and TFW is adored beyone words by the whole world. Anything that does not come directly from TFW does not exist. Beautiful reality, my foot!

+++++++++++++

It's called looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, and in no way is that reality. Milo's gone over the edge. It's a shame, really, but I honestly think that if Kate were convicted of a crime, Milo would blame the system, the victim (if there were one), and just about everyone else under the sun except Kate. Her love for TFW knows no bounds. Is she/he a Catfish? In a way, I certainly hope so because if she really is a wife and mother of two kids, this is one very creepy person.

Over In TFW's County said...

OT -- this has been talked about on other threads here some time ago, but it's interesting when discussing whistleblowing and sweeping things under the rug:

"Penn State said Monday it is paying $59.7 million to 26 young men over claims of child sexual abuse at the hands of former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky."

Vanessa said...

If anything, I would think their peers would sympathize with them.
***********************************************************************

Good point, especially with the teachers. Since 2 were expelled, maybe they can re-strategize on how to help them. To know the extent of the abuse they experienced at such a vital period in their development would be detrimental to helping them long term. They are in a school system, a community and will grow up to be adults in their own communities. This has to be exposed, like many have said, to better THEIR lives. And I agree with the poster that said Robert will get $ and that he deserves and basically NEEDS it. He devoted how many years, days hours to this scandal?? He should be compensated. I'm still on the fence about the movie.

Unknown said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 93
''Actually, it's impossible to tell from Kate's entries if Jon was present. In fact in several of the entries she makes it crystal clear that it was being ALONE with the kids while Jon was off at work that made her lose it on them. If the journals were more clear about what Jon knew or didn't knew I'd be more angry with him. It's still an unknown for me.''
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Behind as usual...but posting anyway!
I agree that TFW's journal often talked about calling Jon at work, sobbing so hard that he couldn't understand her, causing him to come home. It is MY opinion that her inability to control her abuse is the reason Jon made the decision to be a 'stay at home dad'.

In my wildest imagination I can't see Jon standing by and watching her sling his children around by their hair, or beating them as hard as she could on the way to throwing them into their crib.

Suzee said...

if the movie was made from the perspective of Robert and his wife I think it would be great. In a way TFW has been battling them from the very beginning for trying to tell the truth about the situation. Minimal kids stuff, more on the truth being told and flashbacks of the life of TFW and Jon could add the meat to the story.

Berks Neighbor, Sounds like a great idea to tell the story from a local reporter and journalist's perspective. I hope you're reading here Robert. ;- )

Ex Nurse said...

Tweetle said...
But if they do I seriously doubt they'll be thanking everyone involved in a movie for exposing it all on national television and saying, "Whew, at last our dysfunctional family has been exposed to the world and now things will get better."
-----------------
Exactly what Paul Petersen said--the continued experience of being forced to relive past traumas later, is additional trauma.

What, exactly, has Kate gotten away with? She is a national joke and a punchline. She was handed the keys to the kingdom, and then lost it all. She will be cut out out of some, maybe most, of her children's life. I believe that every additional blow to her is a blow to her children.

I believe that Jon is teaching them what a normal is, and the importance of doing earning a living through honest work. They have a relationship with his side of the family, and maybe, through Jon, relationships with her side of the family. With the exception of some pictures and CWS, they have lived a relatively normal, quiet life.

There is no reason on earth to make the decision for the kids--there will be time enough for them to tell their own stories, if they choose.

If RH sells the rights, he may have to cede all decision making to the producer--that is standard. They can present it any way they want, and I sincerely doubt that anyone will come out looking good--including Jon. Seeing Jon,their stable and loving parent painted in a poor light could just be their undoing. Jon will be fair game, too. And, if the focus is around the time of the divorce, it will be slimy and disgusting.

We have already gone around and around on the issue of the kids privacy. I will simply say that privacy is not the same as secrecy. The kids have had very little say in their short lives. People heal by sharing their stories, in their own way and in their own time. Let the kids make that choice when they are ready.


RH, if he is a whistle blower, has blown the whistle already---in his book. No one is sweeping anything under the rug, hiding abuse or demanding secrecy. The information is already out there. I doubt that any of the kids' classmates will be reading the book. Watching a movie? Possibly.

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

AuntieAnn said... 134
ITA with eveything you say. However, I do believe she has tried to change one thing and one thing only: how she now comes across on TV since that appears to be her main goal in life. She now tries to present as apologetic, subdued, passive and softer in demeanor. In her mind, if people see that she is now nicey- nicey-soft-spoken Kate, then people will believe what they see. Plus she has droned on to rag mags that "I've changed!". Image is everything and she is giving it her best shot right now.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

Kate Gosselin is " old news" then why is it that every time she blows her nose she's on Yahoo, Radar, US Magazine and so forth!
Now don't get me wrong I think that is ridiculous! She should have been gone 14 and 1/2 minutes ago!

I'm still waiting for her to get the boot!

Ex Nurse said...

Millicent said...
As long as they remain in the abusive situation, silence and more covering up/pretending everything is okay is the last thing they need.
_________________
I agree with everything in your well-written post--up to the last sentence. I honestly think that Jon understands the seriousness of the situation, and that he is the person to determine if the kids are safe or not. Every child should have 2 loving parents who are capable of healthy bonding. Unfortunately, that is not the case here. But, they do have one, and the protection of his children, really falls under Jon's job description, not RH's or some production company. If Paul Petersen was on this project, I would view it very differently. From the little that we know, it appears that it is the entertainment industry, making a movie for the purpose of making a profit--not to free the prisoners from Alcatraz.

Tucker's Mom said...

Didn't she write in her notes something about how were they going to explain the purchase of that property?
******
How are they going to pretend to be "normal" with a 2M dollar home?

Martha said...

"It's like he narcissism has metastasized"! BRILLIANT analogy Auntie. There is no stopping it, or her! So, Ex Nurse, I beg to differ...she will continue on the kids' path to destruction, she will not be stopped unless, and until, the power to do so is taken away. She DOESNT CARE ABOUT THEM. She never has and she never will. Localyokul, Tucker's Mom and so many others have made excellent, cohesive rants today.
Yes, issues surrounding TFW have been made here, time and time again...that's the point, isn't it? Keep it up until someone in the legal system comes to their (the kids) rescue.

AuntieAnn said...

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said... 148

She now tries to present as apologetic, subdued, passive and softer in demeanor. In her mind, if people see that she is now nicey- nicey-soft-spoken Kate, then people will believe what they see.

====

Paper, I think "tries" is the operative word. In my opinion I don't think she's succeeding. Maybe I think that way because time and again I've seen her "try" different angles at achieving the same goal which is getting something for nothing. She can't barter anything except her own children because she's about as talentless as they come in every way. The books, the tv appearances, the talk show interviews, etc are all delivered in the same poor me, I have eight kids to look after all by my lonesome droning monologue. She comes up empty every time. And every time she is confronted with the truth about her, however dressed down the questions are, I still see that flicker of pure hatred in her eyes for being found out. I don't think she's changed a bit, only more practiced at lying.

Midnight Madness said...

Kate Gosselin is " old news" then why is it that every time she blows her nose she's on Yahoo, Radar, US Magazine and so forth!

**************

Have you noticed how the comments under those articles have declined considerably, with so many of them asking WHY those tabs are still reporting about her, and remarks like, "OMG...is she still around...she won't go away...don't know, don't care."

Midnight Madness said...


I've come to the conclusion that Milo is an elderly closet lesbian hopelessly in love with TFW, living in a seniors residence with LOM, probably with assisted living or at least under moderate supervision. IMO

*****************

You may be right, except that I'd be very surprised if it's a woman. I think she is a guy, and LOM is the supervisor who comes around and makes sure all the lights are off, the computers are shut down, everyone has eaten vanilla ice cream, and they are tucked into bed for the night....with Milo singing "Close to You" and dreaming of walking hand-in-hand with his special someone and her rockin hot bikini body.

LBelle said...

Millicent....129:

That was TRULY the absolute BEST POST I have ever read on this entire blog!!

Awesome!!

Think About the Kids said...

Is there anyone there to tell them that this kind of behavior is not okay?

**************

Well, for starters, how about their FATHER?

Millicent said...

The people who post here at this blog just demonstrated (yet again) why this is one of the best run blogs around. We are peacefully discussing some varying opinions regarding an issue. At no time did anyone resort to name-calling, get into a yelling match, or turn the discussion ugly. We all have our own strong opinions on the matter, but we can share them with each other without venom.

I doubt any of us will change our opinions regarding the possibility of a movie version of Robert's book, but that's okay.

Think About the Kids said...

fidosmommy said... 131
When movies have been made of real life stories, sometimes they change the names of the characters who are minors. There was a movie about 3 teen girls who committed a crime together and the script gave them fictitious names. So, if a movie about Life with Kate and TCL came out, the children could be Lindsey, Trish, David, Michelle.........
****************
It doesn't matter if their names are changed and people can't tie specific incidents to specific children. That is not the point. The movie would still be about their family and trash their mother. Those of us arguing against it believe that the potential damage to the children outweighs the need to "get" Kate.

Lynn said...

I have to agree with most of the posters here. KATE put her children on tv after Jon wanted them off and suffered for it (financially, if not emotionally also). TFW could care less about her children. She wants to be back on tv so badly she will throw anyone under the bus that gets in her way. She is despicable - notice her comment at the Baltimore Book Festival about the slop she makes. Oh well... she doesn't care so why should we? Her crookbook sales (or lack thereof) say it all. She is a has been.

Craziness said...

Is anyone else looking forward to seeing what MsGoody says about a potential movie? She'll flip! Haha!

Amy2 said...

I'm pro movie. The thing is Kate has hidden behind her children for years. People are reluctant to "get" Kate for various reasons but mostly what it could do to the children. I do not want the children hurt but enough is enough. This would be another example of not exposing Kate for the damage she has caused because there are children involved.

The movie could be done with a eye to being sensitive to the children's issues. But again, this is Hollywood who knows what they would do.

Kate reminds me so much of a lizard striking with his tongue to get his prey then going about his business oblivious to the fact another creative was hurt (eaten).

Canadian Mom said...

Canadian Mom, thanks for weighing in--ITA. There is always going to be someone on this blog that tries to silence anyone who doesn't agree with them. The insinuation that anyone who is against the commercialization of 8 kids lives must be a TFW fan is insulting.
=============================

Isn't it? So insulting, to me. I've been around for this mess since the beginning and it's very annoying to be called a 'name'.

I realize there are a lot of new names here and probably don't know, nor care, that I've been around GWoP forever. I don't post much here,

Make no mistake, I am NO fan of Kate's. Never.

PatK said...

I still won't change my mind about the possible tv movie. I want to see it done.

Layla said...

Think About the Kids (157)
Yes,the kids have their father to help teach them that certain behaviors are not acceptable. But they don't live with him. Most of their time is spent with their mother, and they live on a day-to-day basis with her warped sense of reality. Kate has said before that she doesn't think the non-custodial parent should have any say in how they are raised. The kids have been taught to keep secrets from their father (CWS). Kate has always criticized him, put him down, and to think she doesn't do that in front of the kids is ridiculous. Kate does everything she can to put him down and damage his credibility, and she is still the main influence on the kids. The kids are not babies. They can figure things out for themselves. I think the movie might be something that, eventually, could help them to sort through their childhood issues, to see how others perceive their mother's behavior and why it might now seem acceptable. Maybe the kids will eventually see what is really going on instead of being taught that anyone who disapproves is a "hater".

Somewhere In Time said...

Is anyone else looking forward to seeing what MsGoody says about a potential movie? She'll flip! Haha!

----

She could play herself in the movie and work with Robert on the set. I'd pay good money to see that!

Anonymous said...

Think About the Kids said... 157
Is there anyone there to tell them that this kind of behavior is not okay?

**************

Well, for starters, how about their FATHER?
========================================

That's a very slippery slope. How does he do that without looking like he's alienating. This is hard enough on the kids without having more confusion thrown in. I guess he should lead by example and let the kids figure it out on their own. That day will come, you just need to be patient.

PJ

Jeremy said...

ExNurse,
Your post at 147 is perfect. It gave words to my feelings.

Canadian Mom said...

Those of us arguing against it believe that the potential damage to the children outweighs the need to "get" Kate.
===============================================

Excellent point, think of the kids.


Lalalalala said...

Those of us arguing against it believe that the potential damage to the children outweighs the need to "get" Kate.

****************

I don't want to "get" Kate. I think Kate should be held responsible for what she has done to her own children, husband, family, neighbors, pets, the list goes on and on. For too long she has held on to the persona that she is a loving, caring human being. In reality, she has destroyed everything in her path.

She needs help. She refuses to acknowledge that fact. It's offensive to me that she's trying to pretend that everything is A-OK in Gosslin Land when we all know that there are children suffering behind those gates. This whole mess needs to see the light of day.

JoyinVirginia said...

Millicent post 129 (929 total count!) reflects my feelings also. Berks Neighbor, the idea of the story being told from another perspective is good. Out could be told from prospective of on set director, camera and sound staff, or network executives deciding to put profits over ethics. Or locals, or family, or friends, our so many ways the story could be told. Remember the Facebook movie? Much of that story was told from the perspective of a young attorney on Mark zuckerbergs team when he was sued about credit for creating Facebook.
Now on to more important matters, how will everyone do on Dancin With Them Thar Stars tonight?

has been said...

Midnight Madness said... 154
Kate Gosselin is " old news" then why is it that every time she blows her nose she's on Yahoo, Radar, US Magazine and so forth!

**************

Have you noticed how the comments under those articles have declined considerably, with so many of them asking WHY those tabs are still reporting about her, and remarks like, "OMG...is she still around...she won't go away...don't know, don't care."
%%%%%%%%%%

My all-time favorite was the comments under the last Blind Gossip item (which implied Kate sabotaged Jon's appearance on DWTS) Many people guessed it was Kate, but then said it couldn't be possible because no way Kate Gosselin has any kind of pull in Hollywood. ROTFLMAO!

Jeanne said...

The thing with the movie is that they don't even need Robert to make the movie. I've seen made for tv movies before that just said "inspired by" someone's story. They don't really have permission but they change just enough that it's legal. It's a long form of what Law & Order always did. I think Robert might as well take the money for his family.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

I have been away with my family this weekend, so catching up.

I think any sort of movie based on any part of the life of any Gosselin is the worst idea ever. TFW needs to go away, she does not need any publicity, negative as said portrayal might be. And the children absolutely do not need their lives, or even the lives of just the adults in their lives, splashed out in a TV movie.

Frankly, I find nothing interesting enough about the Gosselins that would warrant a movie, a book or anything like that.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

Millicent ...129
I agree with you 100%. I come from an abusive home and I would be very surprised if those kids are not still being abused. I noticed she had an explosive temper and that was in front of the cameras. Can you imagine no cameras around, no witnesses and behind closed doors!

I like that expression " you have to hit rock bottom before you pick yourself up" and Kate hasn't hit rock bottom. It might take a TV movie about her ugliness to finally wake her up and for her to get the help she needs.

There's still a lot of years before those kids can get away from her!

So far no one has given a logical reason why that movie shouldn't be made. If you have one I would love to hear it.

Susantoyota said...

I've been following this discussion with interest as my family currently has someone Kate-like causing chaos in their lives. The parallels are scary as there is a custody issue, hotline calls, court hearings, an over-the-top HAPPY blog, complete with pictures, as well as tweets, but sometimes snide comments about my family who are 'toxic' and 'manipulative'. There is no court case right now, but that may change soon as she has crossed the line again and invited a middle southern state lawyer into her life, ala Shawn Tuma, with a big can of whoop ass. Maybe this will be her downfall/the final solution.

It is scary though how much her actions and thinking mimic TFMJG.

Going to find a rumspringa now and the popcorn.

Susan said...

Here is an entry from lovely emschich here on this blog. So true even today. I so hope that Roberts book exposes the horror of a Mother she is. And as far as the the wife swap crap, she was never a wife. The show proved she is a child abuser. They had no freedom. Just fear.

emschick1128 said... 2
I haven't seen any clips yet but from what I've read the kids are out deep sea fishing without life jackets and also vomiting while she does nothing to help them??? I this what anyone sane would consider entertainment? even if the law didn't reguire life jackets, as a parent I would insist on it. She has no materal instincts at all towards those kids. I really believe that she has no feelings towards them except distain and they make her miserable when she is with them. She never speaks a kind word to them it's just all complaints and gets them away from her so she can be alone in the spotlight. What mother if their child had sand in their eyes would yell to someone else "take this child away"? and do nothing to help them. Her behavior is appalling. As I've said before, I can't believe that in 2010 that someone can abuse their children on NATIONAL TV and nothing is done about it. Truly unbelievable

September 12, 2010 at 7:34 PM

Melissa NV said...

So far no one has given a logical reason why that movie shouldn't be made. If you have one I would love to hear it.

&&&&&&

I think both sides have made very good arguments -- pro and cons have been very well thought out. I'm not sure what is meant by "logical" because posters have explained their positions quite well and given their opinions on why a movie should not be made..

The Plot Never Ends said...

OK, now I've heard it all.....One of Kate's fans just tweeted: ''TLC will never allow any movie about Jon & Kate, Get real.''

WTH? Why on earth does this person think that TLC would try to stop such a movie or even care?

jolie Jacquelyn said...

I hope the Gosselin book is re-released in a new, edited version, & that a movie or TV show isn't filmed.

I feel that filming this mess will only dilute the abuse TFW inflicted on everyone around her, & critics will dwell on the suitability of the actors & not her actions.

Susan said...

And this, we always knew, always could see. Now, Robert, let the book fly AGAIN/
Administrator said... 25
Well I just watched the first 20 seconds and already they're showing the kids puking.

I'm sure the kids so appreciate that now that they have to go to school tomorrow and all their friends saw them hurling on national TV.

Unbelievable.

To the person who mentioned that they showed Zack Roloff puking too, the only difference is Zack Roloff is 19 and if he doesn't want to be shown hurling he can stop it. The Gosselin kids are totally defenseless. Kate, who just claimed to not want them to be seen in a bad light, lets through vomiting.

Ex Nurse said...

Let's Throw Tomatoes said...
So far no one has given a logical reason why that movie shouldn't be made. If you have one I would love to hear it.
--------
What is the potential harm of NOT making the movie? The book will be rerelease sand out there for anyone who wants to know. Presumably, Jon is living asimple life and leading by example. Kids don't learn by what is said--kids learn by what is actually done. So, no harm in not making the movie.

What is the potential harm of MAKING the movie? According to Paul Petersen, a retriggering of their original trauma and pain. IMO, further isolation from their community, shame, embarrassment and the humiliation of having their private lives on display to anyone with cable television.

Anonymous For A Reason said...

A close family member was the victim of a very serious crime. We pressed charges, and worked our way through the judicial system-- a slow and painful process, as some of you no doubt know from personal experience. And we ultimately won, in that the criminals were forced to confront the seriousness of their actions and to serve time behind bars. There's more to the story, but here's where it's relevant to this discussion:

Someone had videotaped the crime itself, a fact that a TV producer caught wind of. He contacted us with a request to use the video for an expose-type show. We refused. The criminals did their time, and we survived a grueling experience, all of us sadder but wiser for the experience. Sure, we could've rubbed salt into old wounds, but why prolong the pain for someone else's profit and/or prurient enjoyment?

NJGal51 said...

Ms. Goody will probably say that Jon can take his share of the money (they are partners don'tchaknow) from the movie, sale of the book, etc. and so on and start paying child support. Se will then go on one of her rants about Jon being a dead beat dad.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Anonymous This time the difference in your sad situation is that the criminals were caught and appropriately punished. There was no value in the film other than to continue dragging it out.

Has Kate been caught and appropriately punished? I would say no, since she just last month went on a rampage suing her children's father.

Kate won't stop on her own, that's a given. But, I do think a real hard smack down in some form, be it losing the lawsuit, a tell all movie, or something else, could stop anyone else who seeks to work with her any time she wants to further exploit the kids. If she becomes box office poison she won't have any HCI's or ABC or anyone left to help her exploit her kids. She would still have twitter and her web site, but that would be it. I see the argument here.

Susan said...

I say expose that evil woman with a book, (thank you Robert) or movie now. I could never tolerate or abide my children suffering like this. Getting seasick is so horrible you just want to die. That is how you feel. And this witch just showed her TATA's to the american public and went on to fish. Yes Maaammm, the wonderful mother of eight children. They suffered, but the bitch go the footage in the can. Sick children be damned. Notice, her boobies were bobbing, she was fishing, and the entire boat and crew cared for her 7 possesions........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mYyUp4oFR4

Layla said...

The Plot Never Ends said...

Tweet: "TLC will never allow any movie about Jon and Kate, Get Real".
I agree, TLC won't care. Perhaps the sheeple haven't noticed that there doesn't seem to be any love lost between TLC and TFW. TLC refused to film specials like they said they would, and they don't even play reruns of J&K or K+8. They are done with TFW. I think as long as their contracts and other documents are removed, they will leave it alone. If they were still interested in blocking Robert Hoffman's book, they would be involved in TFW's lawsuit. They're not. She's all alone on this.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


OK, now I've heard it all.....One of Kate's fans just tweeted: ''TLC will never allow any movie about Jon & Kate, Get real.''

&&&

LOL. TLC isn't the KGB. IF someone wants to make a movie there won't be much they could do to stop it other than suing I guess, which likely wouldn't stop a truthful rendition of the facts.

Ex Nurse said...

Lalalalalala said...
I don't want to "get" Kate. I think Kate should be held responsible for what she has done to her own children, husband, family, neighbors, pets, the list goes on and on. For too long she has held on to the persona that she is a loving, caring human being. In reality, she has destroyed everything in her path.
_________________________
Just out of curiosity' for those that are pro-movie: Exactly what would be enough of a punishment for TFW? Does she have to lose her house? Do the kids have to lose their private school community? Does she have to be put in jail? Lose custody? Lose parental rights? Be perp-walked into prison on national TV? She has lost everything she cares about already. She grifts for coffee creamer, spends her days hoarding and overseeing details that a normal person wouldn't give a second thought. In her own words, if she was important, she would be on television (she said that once, right?). She is done--has been for a long time. She is sick and delusional, and, she is also the mother of 8 innocent children. Punishing her punishes the kids--just as suing Jon, punishes the children.

What would be enough to satisfy the hate that people feel for her?

Seriously, what would be enough to satisfy you?

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Ex Nurse said... 182

What is the potential harm of NOT making the movie? The book will be rerelease sand out there for anyone who wants to know. Presumably, Jon is living asimple life and leading by example. Kids don't learn by what is said--kids learn by what is actually done. So, no harm in not making the movie.
_______________

Interesting question.

Virginia Pen Mom said...

Another of Milo's mind-boggling tweets:

A negative person's opinion is of NO value..because it's an assessment based on a warped/distorted view of a beautiful reality
******
====

I've come to the conclusion that Milo is an elderly closet lesbian hopelessly in love with TFW, living in a seniors residence with LOM, probably with assisted living or at least under moderate supervision. IMO.

============

AuntieAnn said... 138

I could see this, Auntie. You may be right. I really think Milo is a "she," but I think she's got a thing for Kate. She talks like someone in love ... or lust ... or obsession ... or something. Man or woman, she's in love with Kate and living in a fantasy world.

Anonymous For A Reason said...

Exactly, Ex Nurse at 189.

Even if the criminals in our case were never brought to justice, we would've said no to that expose. There's a point at which you have to step back and think about the extent to which you're inflicting your own brand of pain and injury on yourself & others. It can easily happen, even when you have the best possible intentions, that you wind up exacerbating the situation instead of resolving it.

Anonymous said...

EX-nurse:

Nothing will ever be enough to satisfy me.

Pam

AuntieAnn said...

Whether people are for or against a movie being made about the Gosselins, IF one is produced, the blame rests entirely on Kate's shoulders. SHE chose to exploit her kids. Yes, Jon is guilty of that as well and has said so, which is another subject, but when all is said and done Kate is responsible. The selfish pig should have backed off long ago. If she really loved her kids like a normal mother should, she wouldn't have done this in the first place. With or without a movie or a book, the harm has already been done by the mother of those kids.

Virginia Pen Mom said...

Bizarre Sheeple Tweet #43,285:

xxxx ‏@daisyxxxx 13m
@Kateplusmy8 Can i get a retweet on my birthday next month on November 21st

=============



Oh, okay, that's a good idea. Let Kate know early so she can put it on her calendar! "Only 24 more days to remember to tweet me for my birthday!"

Tucker's Mom said...

Punishing her punishes the kids--just as suing Jon, punishes the children.
*******
This is the mentality that has enabled Kate all these years. You want to question how much they've been given and have asked for for free? Well, you're taking food out the babies mouths!
Yes, the children might be hurt if Kate has to experience consequences to her actions. Children do not make anyone immune to the law and they're not a free pass for a grifter and liar.
I'm not sure how I feel about the movie and right now, I'm not for it. I am for releasing the book again. I think it's important for the truth to be known.
Kate has hurt people and she has stolen from people and she's lied to people. Not cool.

The Plot Never Ends said...

Ex-Nurse, with all due respect.....A movie made about the Gosselin children's Mother is not going to kill them! They've lived through much worse already. Their life has been nothing but one expose after another, and this one is no different.

Let the chips fall where they may, and hopefully they will fall directly on Kate's head...where they belong.

Mel said...

Seriously, what would be enough to satisfy you?
+++++++++++++++
To have her stop with the lies. Stop trashing Jon. Stop exploiting the kids.
Sadly, none of those are going to happen.

A bonus would be to never see her in a magazine or on teevee ever again claiming that she deserves whatever because she's a mom of 8.

A bigger bonus would be to see her exposed for the rotten mom that she is, but that's not fair to the kids, so that's off the table, as satisfying as it would be.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

AA I'm with you. When you really strip it down, there are really only two people who ultimately control or controlled what was put out there about these kids and those people are Kate and Jon. They are THEIR KIDS. It can get frustrating sometimes when everyone and your mother are blamed and not them.

Unknown said...

Ex Nurse said... 189
''....Exactly what would be enough of a punishment for TFW? Does she have to lose her house? Do the kids have to lose their private school community? Does she have to be put in jail? Lose custody? Lose parental rights? Be perp-walked into prison on national TV?''
~~~~~~~~~
Hummm. From your list, I chose lose custody. (Although I will admit that I really would get a kick out of seeing her ''perp-walked into prison'' whether on national tv or not.) But that is just hateful ole me.

By the way...no matter what you believe I think that most of the posters on this blog do NOT hate TFMJG. I believe that most people loathe and despise her treatment of Jon's children, not TFW.

Susan said...

Ex Nurse said... 189
Seriously, what would be enough to satisfy you?

Jon having complete custody and all of his beloved children having freedom from beatings, punishment, belittling, endless hours of chores, happiness, laughter, all of the hamburgers they can eat, smores. Or maybe falling asleep relaxed, kissed goodnight with no worry they will be dragged out of bed by the hair on their head for a small infraction in their very young lives. After all, Mommy just got home in her limo from the Big Apple. Oh, and Kate Gosselin complete exposure as the vile, vapid abusive mother she is.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


Ex-Nurse, with all due respect.....A movie made about the Gosselin children's Mother is not going to kill them! They've lived through much worse already.

&&&

No it's not and quite frankly there already WAS a very in depth documentary already made about this family, remember? It was on E! and wasn't a bad rendition of what happened. I'm not sure the kids even realized this aired (and multiple times). I certainly never heard the kids cared or saw that as any different than anything else ever said about them. I never heard they were so devastated and embarrass they couldn't function. I think sometimes because we're so hyper aware of what is happening we may think they must be too. While I definitely think the kids have a general awareness that Kate and the family is talked about, I doubt they sit down every day and read every single blog post and article or pay attention to who is talking about what movie or book or what. They are kids and are busy and once you've been famous for a long time as they have, the novelty wears off. I don't see this as any different than hearing about the book, Kate's lawsuit, or anything else they must hear about. We cannot stop that they are more or less famous kids who pop up in the media from time to time. That is done and they certainly must know it.

The damage is already done. They already ARE famous they already ARE talked about they already ARE exploited. It's done.

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