https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Jon-Gosselin-Slams-Kate-132K-lawsuit-docs-1.pdf
According to Jon's lawyers, Kate has been unable to produce the actual documents of the alleged agreement. She is however asking Jon to pay up now that he has asked for custody.
Jon's lawyers are asking the bill nonetheless be reduced to zero, arguing that the 2012 agreement would be prohibited by law, is vague, has not even been produced to review, is against public policy and not in the children's best interest.
823 sediments (sic) from readers:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 823 Newer› Newest»FlimsyFlamsy said... 198
PA Dutch Mom (#196), you just reminded me of the time TFW took the kids on the train and hee-hawed behind the enthusiastic conductor's back. He was so cute doing his spiel and she was bored silly. What a cow.
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I don't recall a time when they they took the kids anywhere when TFW wasn't making some stupid face or rolling her eyes in what she thought was all har har for the camera. She was just plain rude. What an insult to people who went out of their way to accommodate her and the TLC entourage.
AuntieAnn (#1), and on top of all the first-class VIP treatment, the heifer was getting PAID. And she still couldn't manage to be gracious.
Admin,
I'm halfway through viewing all 13 episodes for a second time, and I can only say, it's pretty weird the first verdict went the way it did (trying to avoid spoilers, y'all!). I mean: Exactly what you said, is it bleeding out or strangulation? I remember reading about this case early on, and due to what seemed like a whole lot of ex-murder circumstances, it felt like an easy guilty call. Anyone else who ever thought this should watch this series.
I'm halfway through viewing all 13 episodes for a second time, and I can only say, it's pretty weird the first verdict went the way it did (trying to avoid spoilers, y'all!). I mean: Exactly what you said, is it bleeding out or strangulation? I remember reading about this case early on, and due to what seemed like a whole lot of ex-murder circumstances, it felt like an easy guilty call. Anyone else who ever thought this should watch this series.
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I always found it very odd that two working, busy people in their 60s are out talking until 2am by the pool, outside in the dark like that. That's something college kids do. I think he may have placed himself out by the pool in his "story" because it places him far enough away to not hear her calls for help.
I think there was talking, but not that late, and there may have been an argument. I think it's very possible there could have been a discussion about her leaving him. It escalated, perhaps it occurred on their way up the stairs, she fell, he freaked out.
I don't see ANY proof she knew about his affairs of the heart or bisexuality. None. He just claims it. Please.
But, things that don't add up, there's a struggle and he has nothing on him at all other than a few blood specks, which can be explained by trying to assist her after the fall.
AuntieAnn (#1), and on top of all the first-class VIP treatment, the heifer was getting PAID. And she still couldn't manage to be gracious.
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Flimsy, every time you call her 'the heifer' I lol. It's so suits her.
TFW posted two pics on Instagram tonight. Pics of a game, probably since two kids are gone and the rest don't want to pose for her pics. I wouldn't be surprised if she's totally faking it just for the boring pics.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj8vRn5AdIL/
kateplusmy8 Playing Electronic Life... look how cute the car is... and the credit card machine! So so fun! #SummerTime #BoardGames 🌞
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj8zZC8g_Sw/
kateplusmy8 I’m pretty sure this must be my car...😳🙄! #TheBBB #GameOfLife #ElectronicLife
I was also shocked the judge gave his personal opinions about the case to the filmmakers. That struck me as wildly inappropriate. I thought judges weren’t supposed to comment. Plus he pretty much indicated he thinks there’s reasonable doubt which means he’s biased.
I feel sorry for Kathleen’s sister. She feels such an incredible hate. She’s pissed at everyone and appeared to have the DA in a choke hold. She has every reason to feel this way but I also think that is no way to live for ten years. Poor woman.
Formerly Duped said... 190
OT: well, has anyone had this problem? an animal(s), likely a chipmunk family, has chewed under the hood of my car, damaging the fluid/oil containers, wires, parts unknown.
This happened to several of my coworkers in our school parking lot. Apparently it was squirrels, who like the vegetable oil used in some NEW cars to coat the lines. Good luck and ask before buying!
Sillymom, I read that article as well and was still to this day shocked that Kate has been able to control a judge into doing her bidding. No parent should ever be allowed to keep children from the other parent just because they hate them, yet she has done it over and over again. She sent Collin away without consulting his father and then refused to tell Jon where he was. How, how, how can she keep on doing this same thing and getting away with it?
Northern, thanks for the tip. Apparently the car is beyond repair. Too bad I just paid for state inspection and new registration fee! I also recently paid it all off in full. Well, that no one was injured is the main thing but still, grr.
Bleary eyed morning. I watched until episode 11 last night.
I am totally uncertain of guilt/innocence at this point. I am glad I was not on his jury. We might still be deliberating!
I have to say that Michael Peterson is probably the most pleasant narcissist I have ever observed.
I look forward to the last 3 update episodes.
I kept thinking of another crime. Tim Hennis -- murder of a mother and two daughters. Twisting story of a guilty man or a most unlucky soul.
His story -- book and TV movie -- ends before it is discovered that the North Carolina lab where DNA is processed had an administrator found guilty of "skewing" results to assist prosecution when she thought someone was guilty.
I wondered if it was the same lab where Duane Deaver worked.
Hennis has been tried 3 times for the same crime and is currently on death row. (Double Jeopardy?)
Here is a link to a quick overview.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/us/death-row-stories-hennis/index.html
The book "Innocent Victims" is much more detailed. But, as I mentioned above, it concludes before the NC lab is found guilty of falsifying DNA results.
John Corbett and Ricky Schroeder star in the way-better-than-average TV crime movie.
These true crime stories can keep many of the black-hearted biddy busybodies here occupied.
These true crime stories can keep many of the black-hearted biddy busybodies here occupied.
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I think it's bitter black-hearted busybodies, but biddy works, too!
I miss hearing about her gazillion frozen cookies in the baggies, the commercial deli meat slicer and the French yogurt maker. Now *that* was interesting.
Northern, thanks for the tip. Apparently the car is beyond repair. Too bad I just paid for state inspection and new registration fee! I also recently paid it all off in full. Well, that no one was injured is the main thing but still, grr.
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Does car insurance have a rodent damage clause? I never checked mine! :)
You should send a video to Farmers Insurance to use in their commercials. "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two!"
Blowing, Neither did I but I will. Thanks. The photos the dealer sent me were horrendous- don't know how the car started and let me go merrily on my way for a few minutes!
Speaking of critters, did you see the video of the raccoon who scaled the 25-story building and finally made it safely to the top?
You just have to wonder...WHY?
TFW posted two pics on Instagram tonight. Pics of a game, probably since two kids are gone and the rest don't want to pose for her pics. I wouldn't be surprised if she's totally faking it just for the boring pics.
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I find it highly unlikely that 14 and almost 18 year olds sit around playing board games with mommy dearest. Since this was “the year of the iPhone” I’d be willing to bet that they’re all glued to their phones chatting with friends, on social media or playing games. Isn’t it interesting that the one picture only had pegs representing 7 kids....things that make you go hmmmmmm. Maybe she was trying to make it look like 3 girls and 3 boys but she goofed and put an extra girl peg in. Or maybe it was intentional....4 girls and 3 boys and she’s cut Hannah out but not Collin because she still wants people to believe that all is well on that front.
A board game?!?! WTF IS SHE KIDDING
Dmasy said... 11
Bleary eyed morning. I watched until episode 11 last night.
I am totally uncertain of guilt/innocence at this point. I am glad I was not on his jury. We might still be deliberating!
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I got to the game late and stayed awake until the middle of episode 4. Netflix had given up on me I guess because there was an error page up when I woke up this a.m.
At this point, I'm leaning toward his innocence and that's all I'll say.
Sidenote: Mike Peterson's brother Bill is a dead ringer for John Lennon.
Blowing, Neither did I but I will. Thanks. The photos the dealer sent me were horrendous- don't know how the car started and let me go merrily on my way for a few minutes!
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Was the rat dead inside the engine?
I have to say that Michael Peterson is probably the most pleasant narcissist I have ever observed.
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Yeah. He is what I would call a high functioning narcissist. He can hold a job, have a nice life, even wealthy life, and have normal relationships with friends and family. There's no question most of his kids sincerely regard him as the best dad ever, and in interactions with his kids it's clear to me he is devoted to them and constantly worried for their well being and emotional health. He also appears to have close bonds with his brother and friends. His blended family and the way he took in other children as truly his own is admirable.
The narcissism doesn't prove he's a murderer, but it does prove he is capable of sustaining a lie for a long time and without remorse.
She has photos of a game piece and a game box. She's off he rocker. Her instagram is getting to be like Milo's with photos of a leaf. I think it's pretty darn telling that either these kids are refusing photos or not even there.
Kate's doing IG posts for money, of course. Everything laid out neatly (when I play board games with my kids, there's stuff strewn all over), two separate posts of game pieces, and she hashtags "gameoflife" and "electroniclife" in both posts. Perfect way for a lazy heifer like her to make money, plus she gets to hint that the kids are with her, and get a passive-aggressive dig at Hannah by picturing her car with only 4 girls. Her fans get her point. H has been banished just like Kate's ex-friends, ex-parents, ex-nieces and nephews, ex-siblings, ex-dog, and ex-husband.
Life, like Monopoly, takes a long time to play. Unless cameras were rolling, I simply don't believe TFW was playing that game with her kids.
That looks like a fake picture to me- only her talons and that's the chaise lounge couch at the end of her bed I think. No way many kids could play a boardgame on that.
Netflix -- all done. Each episode. With pauses and some rewinds to reflect.
I am so glad to have some of you to share thoughts with. (Hubby certainly does not want to listen. He thinks I am true-crime-crazy!) Some of my comments with minimal spoilers:
- The blowpoke! The last minute revelations! Does anyone here own a blowpoke?
- When did suffocation become a part of the forensics?
- Procecutorial misconduct does not denote innocence.
- What David Rudolf said -- we bystanders will always be fascinated by the mystery.
- If I truly believed that one of my sisters had been murdered, I would fight just as fiercely for justice. But, how do you accomplish that without injecting your veins with venom and hate?
- Michael Peterson is such a fluid communicator. ( Even without the bias of editing.) Every gesture, sigh and pause is a part of his dialogue. He is almost too articulate and smooth. He is a published story teller. He was so convincing. Is there a sociopathic quality of being too persuasive? I definitely got the impression that he absolutely relished the attention. All of it -- even the dreadful.
- I agree with Admin. His family adores him. Is he is, indeed, a calculated "act"? One done thoroughly well?
Auntie (18) -- I look forward to your comments after you have seen all 13 episodes.
Sidenote: One of Michael's sons looks so much like Armie Hammer.
About “The Staircase”. I’ve always thought that Margaret Ratliff was Peterson’s daughter. They look amazingly alike and she resembles his two sons, also. Was there ever DNA testing done? Perhaps Peterson had an affair with his then neighbor, Margaret’s mother, and kiilled her when she threatened to spill the news. Since he got away with her murder, it wasn’t so hard to kill the second wife when she found out about his bisexuality.
I’m only on ep 6 but either I read a book about this case or saw this previously.
Jane (27) -- What a plausible theory. You should have been a part of the forensic investigation.
There was a movie (2007) with Treat Williams. I kind of remember watching it.
There is also a book. "Written in Blood" -- I don't know if I ever read it.
Something I knew from somewhere which is never mentioned in the documentary.
Peterson had spent all his book earnings. The huge house and lifestyle, including collage tuition for 5 young adults, put them in deep debt. Kathleen was the support of the family. She was stressed and had reason to fear that she would be downsized from her well-paying job. He was dependent on her income.
Something slightly referenced in the documentary, he had an in home office for his writing interests. Kathleen seldom (if ever) entered his space. It is thought she did that night because of a work call around 10:30 PM. She may have needed computer access and that is when she discovered the bisexual emails.
I agree with Admin -- a hard-working and stressed executive would probably not be sitting and sipping poolside at 2:00AM.
I have to go pull weeds or fold laundry or something. I am way to immersed in this murder mystery!
Formerly Duped -- your problem is a big problem for my farmer hubby. They park big equipment until needed for the next planting or harvest season. Mice always find their way into the cabs and engines. They chew, nest and re-produce. (Awful smells that never quite go away!)
Hubby informs me that the insulation around wires is made from a soy product that rodents like and are nourished by.
He did have some success by placing fabric softener sheets around inside the closed cab. There are also products you can purchase at farm supply stores that repel rodents. Some of them are like small bean bags that you hang in the engine area. The smell repulses critters.
Sorry. All that information is too late to help you. I hope your insurance company offers some assistance. Good Luck.
If our most recent topics were a J&K+8 episode, maybe it'd be called "Car Critters & Murder Mysteries."
More OT. Part 1. Obviously, I am not folding laundry yet.
I ordered the book by Diane Fanning, "Written In Blood" for my Kindle. Possibly, I already read it, but....
Here is one of the reviews. It has even more details not put forth in the documentary.
"I am fascinated by the sociopathic personality and Michael Peterson is a classic: intelligent, charming, glib, and manipulative, Peterson is a stranger to ethics, truth, and the concept of marital vows. Sans conscience, the hallmark of a true sociopathic personality, Peterson lacks insight, or even a modicum of introspection, as demonstrated by the grossly inappropriate conversations, replete with "jokes" about Kathleen Peterson's death, not only with his attorney, but also with his brothers, his own children, and shockingly his two step-daughters, whose biological mother Peterson had also murdered.
I choose this book after seeing the multi-part television series,The Staircase, covering the Peterson trial, as I was interested in a more thorough understand of the scientific evidence, unrestricted by courtroom protocol. Diane Fanning delivered. Fanning explained the significance of evidence presented in court, and also connected critical pieces of information, some barely mentioned in the courtroom, or not obviously connected with other compelling evidence. If you are interested in an explanation of the scientific body of evidence presented in the courtroom, as well as background squabbles and personalities, rather than focusing on the more prurient aspects, this is an excellent book to read.
The most damning evidence, mentioned in court but much more emphatically elaborated by Fanning, was that the blood spatter found on the inside of Michael Peterson's pant legs could only have gotten there had Peterson been standing over Kathleen Peterson while hitting her. Other incriminating evidence, documented by both EMS personnel and police officers, noted that on their arrival, Kathleen Peterson's body was cold and stiff, contradicting Michael Peterson's contention that Ms. Peterson was alive when he called 911.
Fanning explains the medical testimony and laboratory tests that confirm that Ms. Peterson bled to death over at least a two hour period of time and had been long dead at the time of the 911call. Despite this incontrovertible evidence, Michael Peterson clearly told the operator Ms. Peterson was alive, a typical psychopathic pseudo-fact, completely unsubstantiated by observations that were backed up by laboratory tests on the blood cells in Ms. Peterson's brain. With robust findings, the prosecuting attorney noted, "...Peterson had waited patiently for his wife to slowly and painfully bleed to death before he called 911." In true sociopathic fashion, a relaxed Mr. Peterson sat down to quench his thirst with a diet soda while waiting for Ms. Peterson to bleed out.
Aside from the tragic murder of Kathleen Peterson, Michael Peterson leaves a trail of emotional carnage: two women murdered, two sets of families shattered and numerous friends devastated. All but one of the children are either unable or unwilling to accept the fact that their father is not only a murderer, but also that he murdered their own mother/stepmother, an understandable reaction to a powerful, and apparently emotionally overwhelming, truth.
OT Part 2:
A psychologically fascinating, yet humbling and heartbreaking aspect of this murder, is that in order for the two step-daughters to accept that Michael Peterson murdered their beloved step-mother, Kathleen Peterson, effectively the only mother they had known, they would then also be forced to reconcile the fact that Michael Peterson also murdered their biological mother, an emotionally catastrophic truth few could successfully incorporate into an already psychologically ravaged psyche. In view of this, aside from the prosecuting attorney, and the jurors who had to objectively and fairly evaluate an enormous body of evidence, the person I most admire in this mind-numbing tragedy, is the younger daughter who alone of all the children, courageously and bravely faced the horrific truth: Michael Peterson murdered not only her step-mother, but also her biological mother."
*I think the review has a mistake in the last line. The youngest daughter, Caitlin, was the bio daughter of Kathleen and did not have a step mother.
Now, off to other pursuits!
Thanks, Dmasy. The info does help since I don't want this to happen again. You always have great info on various problems/issues- and others too. What a wonderful veranda!Sorry for your husband!
lol Flimsy!
Dmasy, thanks for bringing over those reviews. I am pretty sure I read Written in Blood at some point. What strikes me is how little of the hard evidence mentioned made its way into The Staircase's coverage of the trial. Granted, they make clear that only certain trial days are included, and the blood being dry is highlighted, but some of this other evidence is completely absent from The Staircase. I don't recall any of the testimony mentioning how long it took her to die, a pretty critical piece of info. So the question of bias on the part of the filmmakers really needs to be addressed. I wonder if Peterson and/or his attorneys participated in the final edit.
The Staircase certainly makes it seem like Peterson's having murdered Elizabeth Ratliff is extremely far-fetched. I think I'll have to re-read the Fanning book.
Dmasy,
I read both books, and watched the original documentary. I absolutely think Michael Peterson is a manipulative sociopath and yes, he did it. Every time I hear that clip he did on the news--"I have whispered her name in my heart a thousand times. She is there but I can't stop crying..." just makes my skin crawl. So rehearsed, planned, and definitely a way to manipulate the media and viewers to see it his way. I saw that clip on the news at least a dozen times recently, in the lead-up to his retrial, and it was just creepy. Two women dead at the bottom of stairs after being alone with him. He got custody of the first woman's daughters and control of her estate. He and Kathleen had 6-figure credit card debt, and she had a huge amount of insurance. He went on a spending spree as soon as he got some of Kathleen's money (Caitlin reported that he bought a half dozen new sofas, among other things).
Both books were good and offered a lot of detail. Did the recent documentary mention the fact that Michael's son Clayton was the Duke Bomber? Makes you wonder if sociopathy is hereditary.
So, is he innocent or guilty?
I haven't watched all of the episodes, but I do remember seeing this on one of the true crime shows. I can't remember which one. I watch all of them. Yes, I am a crime show freak, but I shouldn't watch them late at night. I have bizarre dreams that I killed someone and I have to figure out what to do with the body. Not sweet dreams at all.
Layla -- no mention of a Duke bomber. I am going to google that right now. There was vague reference to one of the sons getting in trouble. I think they made it seem like a DUI.
On the first pic that TFW posted last night, there were several comments asking about a new season on Khate Plus 8. People ask about the show on most of her posts and she never answers them.
But, last night she was answering other questions. For some reason she ignored all the questions about the show. Maybe because the questions are always about the show with the kids. People rarely ask about her new Fake Date with Khate show.
Still, she's kind of stupid to not answer the questions and tell her fans that she has a new dating show that's premiering this fall. In fact, she hasn't once mentioned this new show, has she? That is, other than the reference to "work" when she posted the pic of her and Jaime on a flight back home.
How weird is that? She must be the only reality TV person who doesn't do an Instagram post or tweet when the network announces a new show. Maybe it's because she's afraid it won't make it to air, like what happened years ago with Twisted Khate.
Here are the questions about the show, plus a few other questions, and the questions she replied to:
jaymewitha whyElectronic life?!! I thought the whole point was to make someone miserable as the designated banker! 🤣
swim4life2 Any Kate plus 8 on the horizon? @kateplusmy8
caycaymax @kateplusmy8 are you going to have anymore shows on ?
kateplusmy8 @jaymewithawhy I’m the banker.. apparently my name is ‘Stephanie’, the banker, and I’m running the credit card machine (and it’s really fun, actually!😉)
ashleigh.druck when does the show come back on TLC!?
amcarroll99 Does Hannah not live with you
its_katie_duh_ I miss seeing y'all on tv
barbis1969 How's life. When are you going back on tv i miss my Ms. Kate and your approach to life.
b.henrikson @kateplusmy8 When does your show come back!? Love watching! 💜💜
emmy_lekse_17 @kateplusmy8 when’s Kate plus 8 coming back on?
nicolew484 That car will never hold the 8 kids you're bound to have during the game. 😉 #epicfailLIFE
kateplusmy8 @nicolew484 lol! Look what I just posted... and before I even saw this lol!
nikbrewer We love playing Life! I always make my daughter choose college...she doesn't have an option. Lol.
umrebl07 @kateplusmy8 is there a new season that starts this fall??
kateplusmy8 @nikbrewer uh, same.... it’s expected! Lol! 😉
staczzz2003 @kateplusmy8 are y’all gonna come back on TLC anytime soon?! I miss y’all!
sahara_alejandre Is Colin back home?
southern_wife_and_mommy211 @kateplusmy8 Will y'all have a new seaon this year?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj8vRn5AdIL/
Since Kate has found a friend in IG, has she given up on her Twitter? If so, why would anyone waste their time tweeting on there if she isn't reading or responding and obviously not many people are commenting there?
I don't get it!
Former Lurker (#39), was Gladys not part of the chitchat last night? She'll kick herself if she missed an opportunity to interact with TFW.
Dmasy,
I was just reading an article (www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_mp_background.html) about Michael Peterson, and it says there that there was a DNA test done on Michael and Margaret. He was excluded as the father of Margaret Ratliff. It also gives more information about Michael's son Clayton. Clayton has a drinking problem from a young age, blew up a phone booth in Germany, had 6 pipe bombs in his house when he was arrested for planting the bomb at Duke University (2 of the 6 were rigged to arrows to be used on a crossbow), multiple DUIs, and a charge of assaulting a girlfriend. This was all before Kathleen's death. Michael Peterson passed off the bomb planted at Duke as a childish prank. That was not a prank. It says a lot about Michael that he brushed off his son's antisocial activities as pranks. What was the family doing while Clayton was building all those bombs? Michael Peterson was arrested for DUI while running for Mayor of Durham, and was forced to admit he lied about having 2 Purple Hearts. Police said that when they responded to the house after Kathleen was found, Michael went to his computer, mumbled something about Kathleen's email, then spent time surfing the net. While the police were there. Wow.
So, is he innocent or guilty?
I haven't watched all of the episodes, but I do remember seeing this on one of the true crime shows. I can't remember which one. I watch all of them. Yes, I am a crime show freak, but I shouldn't watch them late at night. I have bizarre dreams that I killed someone and I have to figure out what to do with the body. Not sweet dreams at all.
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It seems from the online information I've been reading there def was financial motive to kill both women.
In view of this, aside from the prosecuting attorney, and the jurors who had to objectively and fairly evaluate an enormous body of evidence, the person I most admire in this mind-numbing tragedy, is the younger daughter who alone of all the children, courageously and bravely faced the horrific truth: Michael Peterson murdered not only her step-mother, but also her biological mother."
*I think the review has a mistake in the last line. The youngest daughter, Caitlin, was the bio daughter of Kathleen and did not have a step mother.
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Good review. That's right, the children have to deep dive so long and hard into the abyss if they accepted he is the murderer that it would take an incredible amount of emotional strength to do so. They also would have to accept that their entire lives were a lie. No kid wants to do that. Caitlin didn't have layers at stake like they did. She simply had her mom who was dead and her stepdad who did it. Much simpler for her. The collection of emails on Vance Holmes were interesting. Along with the kinky ones there was one about him speaking with his ex about the two of them together financially supporting their adult sons who had gotten themselves into credit card debt, as many 20'somethings do. My parents wouldn't have done that when I was that age nor would I expect them too, but still, I think it shows he had sort of a pushover-dad side to him, let me lick your wounds, I hate to see you suffer, that really seems inconsistent with cold blooded killer.
Seems there were financial motivations to kill which were very much left out of the documentary. I think he's much like an O.J. Like I said, has many moments of being a good guy, father, friend, which makes murder hard to comprehend to the point where some can't go there.
The most damning evidence, mentioned in court but much more emphatically elaborated by Fanning, was that the blood spatter found on the inside of Michael Peterson's pant legs could only have gotten there had Peterson been standing over Kathleen Peterson while hitting her.
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What's the science behind this statement? I feel like I can easily get a stain of anything on the weirdest spots, and I can promise I'm not bludgeoning anyone.
I don't think all this blood spatter analysis helps much. It's junk science.
FlimsyFlamsy said... 41
Former Lurker (#39), was Gladys not part of the chitchat last night? She'll kick herself if she missed an opportunity to interact with TFW.
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According to Instagram, TFW posted those two pics 21 hours ago. That would have been midnight her time. That's past Milo's bedtime. But, I'm sure she'll chime in on one or both of those posts tonight.
About “The Staircase”. I’ve always thought that Margaret Ratliff was Peterson’s daughter. They look amazingly alike and she resembles his two sons, also. Was there ever DNA testing done? Perhaps Peterson had an affair with his then neighbor, Margaret’s mother, and kiilled her when she threatened to spill the news. Since he got away with her murder, it wasn’t so hard to kill the second wife when she found out about his bisexuality.
I’m only on ep 6 but either I read a book about this case or saw this previously.
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Very good. As others posted apparently prosecutors thought this too and DNA tested that one out. But, it still begs the question I wonder if Michael and her mother THOUGHT she was his, or could be, even if she wasn't. Even the thought provides possibilities, even if it weren't true.
Apparently he was at Margaret's birth? He disclosed this at her birthday party. He talked about her birth as if he were her real father. This was way before her mom died and he took over. I found that beyond weird, another man just hanging out at your child's birth like it's a neighborhood bbq. Me thinks you are right, they may very well have thought he was possibly the father.
By the way though, Margaret also looks a lot like her bio mother, when they show old pictures of her bio mother. It just happens to be she resembles Mike Peterson too.
- If I truly believed that one of my sisters had been murdered, I would fight just as fiercely for justice. But, how do you accomplish that without injecting your veins with venom and hate?
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Having spent many years with various victims, I'm all for justice, but the ones the best off seem to be the ones who can sincerely forgive and move on. The ones that stay so engaged and so enraged and so passionate, like that sister, don't really feel better for it.
I'm not gonna judge, if they went to chase after justice, go for it, and you've got me on your side. But if they're concerned about their own mental health, they might want to look at other options.
I actually thought it was quite respectful of the prosecutor's office to refuse to budge because the victim's family was pushing them so hard. They owe a lot of duty to the survivors, and they took that seriously.
- Michael Peterson is such a fluid communicator. ( Even without the bias of editing.) Every gesture, sigh and pause is a part of his dialogue. He is almost too articulate and smooth.
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His manner of speaking is highly intelligent, confident, matter of fact, of older generations, almost Music Man-ish. "Have I got a deal for you, listen here, River City!"
I assume he has always been like this, and this is just his personality, not something he suddenly put on after murder. But it is an odd way to to talk when you're saying, Listen here River City, my wife fell down the stairs and I came upon her all by accident.
Frankly I also thought the guy was funny, hate to say it. He can crack a good joke.
I haven’t watched it yet, but The Staircase is available on Netflix.
I also remember from the books written about the Peterson case that Michael stole money from a woman who taught school with his first wife Patty. This was long before he met Kathleen (he had an affair with Kathleen and left Patty for her). Patty sided with Michael, even though she paid the money back. He had an almost hypnotic hold on the women in his life. They always trusted in him, believed in him, put so much into his hands. He was a true manipulator.
After Kathleen died and Caitlin inherited her estate (except for her retirement fund and stock options, which Michael grabbed immediately), Michael billed Caitlin for Kathleen's funeral and burial, and also for Kathleen's pearls, which Caitlin kept because they reminded her of her mother. After Liz Ratliff (Margaret and Martha's mother) died, he took control of her estate, including $50,000 she got from her husband's death, an antique tapestry that he hung in his home, and he got social security for Margaret and Martha.
I read in the article I posted above that Margaret sent the overdue bill for the video Michael and Kathleen watched the night Kathleen died. It had been seized as evidence, and Margaret thought the DA should pay the bill.
I woke up bleary eyed because I stayed up until 2:30 watching the live cam of the mpr raccoon, which is near where I live.
So cool how many people were rooting for a raccoon. They really responded to having something positive to rally around. All the talk at work today. 😊
Mel (#53), no bitter, black-hearted busybody worth her salt would root for a cute little raccoon! You'll ruin our reputation as the "cesspool of hate!"
Apparently he was at Margaret's birth? He disclosed this at her birthday party. He talked about her birth as if he were her real father. This was way before her mom died and he took over. I found that beyond weird, another man just hanging out at your child's birth like it's a neighborhood bbq. Me thinks you are right, they may very well have thought he was possibly the father.
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I googled, which I should have done earlier, and saw that DNA testing was done on Margaret. Can’t really explain it but there’s something in her mannerisms and of course her looks that is just, to me, so eerily resembles her father. It may just be that over time she picked up on the little quirks and they became part of her persona. Was DNA testing reliable back then? I guess I’m not quite ready to give up my theory!
I do th
Finishing the above LOL
I do think there’s something to the daughters being unable to see and accept their fathers guilt. Just my opinion that he’s guilty.
Jane--maybe Margaret and Martha can't accept the idea that the only parent they have left killed both their mother and their step-mother. They also lost their father at a young age. That kind of loss has to be just devastating, and maybe too much for them to even fathom.
I was rooting for the raccoon, too! I even named it. I'm calling it Buster, after the raccoon in Grey Gardens. He was just so adorable, taking a nap on the ledge (and thankfully not falling). Raccoons are extremely intelligent. In one of the articles yesterday it said that raccoons can figure out how to open locks, and can figure it out if locks are changed or turned upside down. And they have remarkable memory. My youngest now wants a pet raccoon.
I do think there’s something to the daughters being unable to see and accept their fathers guilt. Just my opinion that he’s guilty.
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The documentary leaves out more information than I realized that is important to forming a complete picture to have an educated opinion. There WAS motive, contrary to what the documentary says. There is a long history of strange behavior from Michael, more than what they told us in the documentary. Other biological family members have had very strange issues, like his son pretty much being a terrorist. There could be sociopathy running in the family. Michael downplayed his interest in men as just a silly little thing he did on the side. It was much more serious and involved than that. He was good at forming real relationships, I think his own attorney, who I quite like, regarded him as the closest of friends and someone he became such a believer in he was basically working himself into emotional and financial turmoil to keep helping him for ten years. It was his attorney who got him out of jail, bar none. I enjoyed the discussion of strategy, as I think that is very important to trial work, and the difference between a good and great lawyer. I liked how he explained how they shouldn't go to the DA groveling for a plea at that moment, they need to file a couple motions first, stir the pot, get them thinking they're serious about going back to trial. Then spring for the settlement. Very sharp, and it worked.
I think as far as the daughters go, it's not important they believe it. I don't think he would ever hurt them. Just like OJ would never hurt his kids. Michael parses things out, and compartmentalizes. It helps his daughters to live their life thinking dad's the best and would never do this--that is good.
Also, killers tend to stop killing in their 60s and 70s, they think it's related to a decline in testosterone.
But I will say this, the more intelligent the murderer is the harder it is to figure it all out. It's a game of chess with Michael Peterson. We are mere pawns.
According to Instagram, TFW posted those two pics 21 hours ago. That would have been midnight her time. That's past Milo's bedtime. But, I'm sure she'll chime in on one or both of those posts tonight.
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I guess I'm just mildly curious, but when LOM orders Milo to hit the sack and turn off the lights, must she go right to sleep, or is she allowed to read or watch television?
It's so strange that a grown woman would allow a man to tell her when the lights must go out. Kind of creepy, in fact.
Layla, we had a raccoon that continuosly invaded our garbage can. My husband first put one of those elastic straps that attached with an s at the ends, the raccoon figured it out and pulled it off. He then built a small enclosure and shut it with a hook lock, too easy for the raccoon. He changed the hook lock to one with a spring, again didn't work. Finally he ended up putting a padlock on it and didn't give the raccoon a key. Raccoons are very intelligent and their little hands can open practically anything.
Blowing In The Wind said... 19
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Not that I saw. There was some brown fur which may have been from a chipmunk and family as we have SO many of them this year.They are brazen little critters now. The service dept sent photos of the damage but none showed any animals or parts of same!But the innards were hanging by a thread, really- so many chewed up parts and wires They said it was definitely animal damage and thanks to you , I did call my car insurance co. and am waiting to hear. Thanks again!
Finally he ended up putting a padlock on it and didn't give the raccoon a key. Raccoons are very intelligent and their little hands can open practically anything.
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Would the raccoon have been able to figure out a number combination lock?
So cool how many people were rooting for a raccoon. They really responded to having something positive to rally around. All the talk at work today. 😊
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I just have to wonder why a raccoon would scale a building. If he wants exercise, wouldn't it be much more fun to climb a tree?
I am also amazed at squirrel dexterity. They are amazing climbers and use their hands so craftily. They can get into any garbage bin or bird feeder!
And they chew well too!
Just saw a picture of Jennifer Lopez at her daughter's dance recital. Jennifer has her arm around her ex, Marc Anthony, and Marc has his arm around Jennifer's current beau, Alex Rodriguez. Big smiles from everyone.
Whoops...hit send too soon!
I think TFW would sooner pose for a picture with her arm around a barrel of toxic waste than around the father of her kids. It has been crystal clear for years that she hates him more than she loves them.
Dmasy said... 26
Auntie (18) -- I look forward to your comments after you have seen all 13 episodes.
Sidenote: One of Michael's sons looks so much like Armie Hammer.
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Dmasy, I finished watching the series last night and I'm still not convinced that he bludgeoned Kathleen and left her to die in that stairwell. I get that the doc was certainly biased in his favor but regardless, I think because he had written some critical things about the DA and the Durham PD, he wasn't given a fair trial. I have to wonder had he opted for that new trial, if the jury would have returned with a different decision. That dweeb Dwayne Weaver from the SBI committed perjury and then later, his attorney found out that the police had found the the blowpoke right from the beginning. I'm glad the judge granted a new trial for those two reasons alone.
Sidenote: the other son looks like Brandon Fraser
(and I tired quickly of the dreary background cello music)
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And now for the doozey I read just now... At first I thought oh brother, BUT this from esquire.com does make some sense:
In 2003, Michael Peterson was convicted of murdering his wife. He was said to have attacked her with a fireplace tool, causing blunt force trauma to her head and causing her to fall or pushing her down the stairs.
But in 2008 his neighbour Larry Pollard put forward the theory that Kathleen had been the victim of an attack by a barred owl via a series of YouTube videos. They're common around Durham, North Carolina, where the Petersons lived, and there's a lot of examples of them attacking people by dive-bombing the head.
Pollard said that what might have happened is that either the owl got into the Peterson house, got spooked by Kathleen walking into the bedroom, attacked her, and caused her to fall down the stairs, or that she was attacked while in the front garden, out of earshot of Michael, then attempted to walk up the stairs before collapsing down them.
A reexamination of the evidence in 2009 seemed to back the idea up. Kathleen was found to have had a microscopic feather and a sliver of wood from a tree limb caught up in a clump of hair in her hand that had been pulled out by the roots from her head.
Pollard told Raleigh, North Carolina's newspaper, in 2010 that the tiny feather gave them "new hope" of overturning the conviction.
"We know that we got the feather," he said. "We know that it happened late at night. We know that there was a small wooden slither recovered that was determined to be a tree limb. The SBI crime lab did not examine the feathers. They assumed these feathers didn't have anything to do with the crime."
In three new affidavits submitted to the court, three expert witness backed up the owl theory. Dr Patrick T Redig, professor of veterinary medicine at the University of Minnesota, said the proposed attack was "entirely within the behavioural repertoire of large owls".
The owl theory may sound ridiculous but that same SBI that was hell bent to have him convicted knew of the feather, but deemed it not relevant to the case.
AuntieAnn (67)
I've read about the owl theory, but it makes no sense to me. If an owl attacked as Kathleen went into her 2nd-floor bedroom, then how did it manage to get back down that narrow staircase and out of the house? The doors were closed until Michael came back into the house, and he never reported an owl flying out. No other feathers or evidence of a bird were found in the house. If she was attacked outside (a far more likely scenario) and went inside, then why no blood trail leading into the house? The wounds to her head were severe, and would have bled profusely.
Michael and Kathleen were sitting outside by their pool that night, so the single microscopic feather and sliver of wood probably got caught in her hair when she was outside. When she grabbed at her head and pulled out the hair, they stuck to the blood on her hand.
I just didn't think there was enough evidence of an owl attack for it to be credible. There would have been more feathers (especially if Kathleen grabbed at it, getting the microscopic feather stuck in her hand) and blood evidence.
Lots of twists and turns in this case!
OT caution -- skip if you have no interest in the Michael Peterson murder conviction.
Auntie -- the mystery keeps getting more complex. An owl in the house??
I am up to Chapter 11 in the book by Dianne Fanning, "Written In Blood". I also did some internet sleuthing.
I have already learned so many details not mentioned in the documentary.
Assuming the autopsy was done correctly -- Kathleen took 2-4 HOURS to die. She slowly bled to death. She could have been saved with timely intervention. The condition of the blood cells in her brain were a clear indication of slow oxygen loss. (I forget the medical phrase right now.)
She also had a small hemorrhage and bone broken in her thorax. Attempted suffocation? She did have defensive wounds.
There was a full shoe print in blood on her sweat pant leg. The print was on the back of her upper thigh. Someone stepped on her while she was face down. She had full coverage of blood on the bottoms of her feet. She was standing in a pool of blood at some point during the fall/struggle.
Cleanup: A series of bloody footprints crossing the kitchen -- sink to cabinet to utility room -- had been completely cleaned up. Cleaned so well that they were not invisible to the naked eye. It took luminal and the special light to reveal them. There was a clumsy and ineffective attempt to clean up in the stair well.
Blood -- transfer and/or drops -- outside the front door and smeared on the back kitchen door.
Todd lied about arriving to see rescue vehicles and thinking his dad might have had a heart attack. Michael admits that he called Todd immediately after calling 911. Todd had blood on his clothes. Some was transfer and some looked as if it had dripped off of an object he was carrying on his shoulder. Todd became an unofficial spokesperson for his distraught father. Todd emphasized that he was in the house earlier in the evening and Kathleen was "Drunk. Drunk. Drunk. Stumbling all over." Blood alcohol tests proved that she was slightly under the legal limit.
Michael attempted to clean some of the blood on his shorts. He managed to dilute it. It looked as if he might have carried a stainless tea kettle with water into the back of the house and poured it on his clothes while he was still wearing them. Regardless of the accuracy of the theory of the blood expert, Michael did have blood splatter on his inside crouch area and up inside his shorts. Not transfer blood but splatter blood.
Michael said he and Kathleen were out sitting around the pool for quite awhile. He stayed to smoke his pipe after she left. About 45 minutes. (Not 2-4 hours it took for her to die.) He never altered that detail. December. 55 degrees. And, there was NO furniture around the large pool.
Kathleen was in Michael's office between 10:30 and 11:00. She was in contact with a co-worker. That person said she was not upset or drunk. She used Michael's computer because she had left her laptop at her office.
After watching the documentary, I did have thoughts that he could be innocent. After reading a scant of the book and articles on the internet, I lean toward his guilt.
She was murdered. Not an accident. Could there have been an intruder? But, why would Michael have told so many lies that cannot be supported by medical or forensic evidence. Why would an intruder take the time to clean up blood from locations where there should not be blood. And, the final questions -- why were a few microscopic feathers found on Kathleen's scalp? Why did she have a few pieces of pine straw and blood splattered strands of her hair clutched in her hands?
Michael said he and Kathleen were out sitting around the pool for quite awhile. He stayed to smoke his pipe after she left. About 45 minutes. (Not 2-4 hours it took for her to die.) He never altered that detail. December. 55 degrees. And, there was NO furniture around the large pool.
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Out by the pool always seemed like an odd fact to me, and I think if he did it, he placed himself there to pretend to be too far away to hear anything and get help. I know he said in the doc that there was furniture there at the time, where does it come from there were no furniture?
I don't know, it would just be highly unusual to sit out by a pool like that in the middle of the night. We never do that, didn't know anyone who wanted to do that. Absent an extremely, extremely humid night, the pool area loses interest at dusk. Also around 10-11 o'clock bats come out, possums come out, it gets chilly. The pool area, lovely during the day, is not most people's idea of fun at night.
If they had a better outdoor setup out there-gas firepit, couches, warming lamps, sound system, I might believe it. It was actually rather cheap, uncomfortable looking lounge chairs.
And add in a couple in their 60s wants to stay up all night? I'm half their age at the time and I'm conked out by 9-10.
Was there every any evidence this is something they DID, regularly sit out by the pool at midnight? I wish the whole unedited trial were available somewhere.
Kathleen was in Michael's office between 10:30 and 11:00. She was in contact with a co-worker. That person said she was not upset or drunk. She used Michael's computer because she had left her laptop at her office.
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So at 10-11 while innocently using his computer to do some work did she casually snoop around for the heck of it or even accidentally come upon all his porno and conversations with male hookers? Went out to confront him, freaked out, threatened to leave or divorce, made demands, a struggle ensued and he either accidentally or intentionally hurt her.
Is it also possible Todd killed her over some kind of dispute, and Michael helped cover? Todd is pretty deranged based on his history.
Michael is adamant "I did't do it!" I do not recall from him a more inclusive statement like "I had nothing to do with any of this". He is in many ways like Kate, splitting hairs, able to say "true" statements emphatically if they ARE technically true. I.e. maybe HE didn't do it, but maybe he covered for Todd.
Admin -- Somewhere before Chapter 11 in "Written In Blood".
(I dislike that on a Kindle you just can't flip back and find a page with the text you want to access. )
Kathleen's sister is in the house for the first time after the death. She is there to select clothes for Kathleen's burial. She has made an attempt to clean up blood and gives up. Too much blood. Too thick. Their mother is due to arrive later in the day and she does not want her to see Kathleen's blood. (In the next few days, Michael's attorneys will order plywood will be screwed up to seal the stairwell and preserve what blood is on the walls.)
Candice and Lori (the sister's) are both in Durham. They have been trying to speak with Michael but he is avoiding them.
Candice is looking out a (kitchen?) window and describes what she sees. She makes the comment that there is NO furniture around the pool.
I suspect that sentence was inserted for later reference. At the time, Candice would not have known that detail is significant. She has not been told much about the death evening yet.
I'd like to see the trial in its entirety too. I watched Reversal of Fortune online at Dateline today, too. Another 11 part series, but short 7 min. segments. (darn it Dmasy, you got me hooked!) There's a few clips of the trial that were not in The Staircase and it was filmed before the Alford plea deal.
Admin - Todd had quite a bit of impact on that first night. He calls friends to come to the house. One is drunk and creates confusion. One is a medical student who introduces herself as a Doctor and offers to help. She stays around intrusive enough that she is finally asked to go into the den with Todd's date. They are instructed not to speak to each other until they are interview. Todd was also asked to remain silent, but he and Michael and Ben (the inebriated friend) continue to whisper to each other. When they are in the kitchen, Michael turns on water and tries to clean himself and maybe the cabinet door. An officer tells him to stop. Later evidence of smear blood on a cabinet drawer and the glass front of the cabinet above will only be a memory of an officer.
Please tell me to stop if I am clogging the blog with my current obsession!! I will understand.
Dmasy and Auntie,
I'm obsessed, too! It's an intriguing mystery, for sure.
Not to add fuel to the true-crime-obsession fire, but--I'm fascinated by a local case that happened here back in the 1976. A State Department employee, William Bradford Bishop, killed his entire family (wife, 3 sons, and his mother), drove to North Carolina with the bodies in the back of his car, placed them in a shallow grave, set them on fire, and disappeared forever. Bishop was quarterback of his high school football team, married his high school sweetheart (she was a cheerleader), graduated from Yale, spoke multiple languages, had a career as a diplomat that took him all over the world, beautiful kids, and a home in a prestigious suburb of DC. Then one day he found out he was passed over for promotion and that was it. He has been on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List since 2014. Yet there's not much information out there about his case. No books, no documentaries, not even much coverage on the true crime shows. I can't understand why-it's such an interesting story. Check it out and let me know what you think.
Regarding the owl theory I doubt an owl was inside the house. Kathleen and Michael had just finished decorating for Christmas. She might have gone outside to the front for a last quick look at it before she went to bed. The owl could have 'dive-bombed' her, frightened her and she ran into the house in an attempt to go upstairs but slipped. Remember Michael had told her he was following her to bed in a few minutes when she went in to send or answer the email. She might have thought he was up in their bedroom.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. It is a scenario that isn't out of the realm of possiblity. If owls can swoop down and knock down over a big 200+lb man, they can certainly do damage to a smaller woman like Kathleen. The talons can leave deep lesions in the scalp.
As to Candice not seeing furniture near the pool, she said police had taped off the entire property before they let her in. The pool was at the back of the house, so how did she know there was no furniture back there if wasn't allowed onto the property?
Dmasy, I think we're going to be in the jury room awhile. Are we allowed a rumspringa or two?
Auntie Ann (76)
If it was an owl, it makes more sense that it would have happened outside. But there was no blood. Head injuries bleed so much, you'd expect there to be blood outside, either where the owl struck or a trail of blood leading into the house, across the foyer...but there wasn't any. Also, if it took 2-4 hours for Kathleen to bleed out and die, what was Michael doing during that time? He can't account for the long wait before summoning help, no matter what actually happened.
Auntie -- I went all the Kindle way back to find the paragraph. On my Kindle 14%. She is in the office with Michael. He is looking out the French doors at the pool area. She joins him at the window. She got up from the computer where she was writing Kathleen's obituary. She makes the observation that there is no furniture around the pool. I am sure that is in the book for later significance.
Layla said...
State Department employee, William Bradford Bishop, killed his entire family (wife, 3 sons, and his mother), drove to North Carolina with the bodies in the back of his car, placed them in a shallow grave, set them on fire, and disappeared forever.
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Good lord. That's horrible. That's over four decades ago. Not a trace of him? It sounds similar to that case (Lang? Lane?)...the man who killed his mother, wife and four kids, turned down the furnace to keep the house cold and then disappeared for thirty some years. They finally caught him when they aired an episode of America Most Wanted. They had a forensic artist make a model of what he would look like in his older age. Someone recognized him and turned him in.
Layla -- Interesting story. Please don't tempt me.
I can only investigate one crime at a time!!!
Auntie -- I would make a "tedious" juror. I would want to tear apart every detail and analyze all the information. I suspect the other 11 in the room would need many rumspringas to deal with me!
John List was the man's name. I just looked it up.
Dmasy,
Did you read about Michael's abuse of the family dogs? I don't remember which book it was that mentioned his treatment of the family dogs. They had two bulldogs, and the dogs liked to swim in the pool. One of the dogs ( I think its name was Puck) would grab onto the pool hose and pull it, and Michael would just lose it and beat the dog bloody. That dog disappeared, and when Michael was later asked where the dog was, he simply said Puck died--but gave no details. That broke my heart.
I had pages and pages of notes in my juror notebook when I served on a jury. And that was just for a burglary! The worst was not being able to share with anyone including the blog about the case. I wanted to go over the evidence with fellow true crime junkies. I was on my own with my theories until deliberation time! Yes
I was very glad though most of the jurors were very engaged and had been listening carefully. The 10 hours we deliberated was pure enjoyment.
Auntie -- Candice and her sister were staying in a hotel. The night the police opened the house to family Michael and "the men" (Todd and his brother Bill?) went immediately to the home. They neglected to tell "the women" that the scene had been released. Kathleen's sisters found out later in the evening that they could go into the house.
The men had spent their extra time cleaning up blood in spaces other than the stairwell.
AuntieAnn (79)
John List was a similar case (wife, 3 kids, mother killed), and Bradford Bishop is often compared to List. But Bishop has never been found--he just disappeared. The Bishop case is interesting to e because they lived so close. There are even people in that neighborhood who lived there when the Bishops did, and remember them. Everyone admired them--they were beautiful, social people--and then everything went wrong.
Anyone else think it was just too dramatic when Michael cried in court? They played the 911 tape and he took off his glasses and dropped them on the table with a clatter and cried. He just tried too hard to draw attention to himself displaying emotion. Most people just move their glasses up and wipe their eyes, they don't take them off and toss them on the table like that. It just seemed contrived.
Looking at the diagram of Kathleen's injuries--all the lacerations are to the center back of her head. Wouldn't they be higher up if an owl swooped from above? I'd expect them to be at the upper back of her head, not center back.
OT -- more Michael Peterson details.
I am now the the chapters that true crime authors often insert after you are hooked. The backgrounds back to birth and childhood.
Most important -- Martha and Margret did not have idyllic and uninterrupted childhoods. At 1 and 3 their mother died at by falling down steps. Barbara, their loyal nanny, observed that Michael liked little Martha but was harsh and punitive to Margaret. She even reported him to the military police when she came to pick up the girls and Margaret had several bruises and two black eyes. M. and his first wife sent Margaret to live with her Aunt in Rhode Island because she was a difficult child. Both girls bounced back and forth between families. At one time they were even shopped out to a wealthy German family with no children who were interested in adopting them. That only lasted a few months and the couple changed their minds. The girls sometimes lived with M. and his first wife and the two boys. Sometimes just with M. The 3 girls lived for awhile with Kathleen and M before they married. Then M reconciled with his first wife and went back to Germany. He took the girls with him. First wife didn't want the girls. She said that the boys were too much to handle. The troubles with them were in the early stages. Michael moved back to NC and back into Kathleen's home.
Whew! Yeah. Not the sweet, embracing, blended family the documentary portrayed.
I am condensing what I am reading. The author's style is deliciously detailed and I don't think you want to me regurgitate every bit here. But, I should have said that the Peterson's reported that Martha was a difficult child as a reason to send her to the US. Also, there is no commentary that either Kathleen or Caitlin were anything other than kind and accepting to the girls.
Layla -- I haven't read any stories of the dogs yet.
There was one scene in the doc where MP is calling in the clearly outdoor dogs (boo) and one doesn’t come right away, so Michael gives up and closes the door. It was a small detail, but bothered me. He made no effort to get the dog to come in. Didn’t seem concerned how and when it would eat, get warm, etc. I don’t know, I think it’s the little things with this case.
On a lighter note (before Dmasy held a gun to my head and forced me to watch The Staircase) I watched a documentary on Netflix about the Queen - "Elizabeth at 90: A family tribute".
It's really interesting with behind-the-scene 16 mm home movies recorded by the queen herself and other members of the family. The Queen, Charles, William, Harry and others commenting and reflecting on the where and what was happening at the time the camera was recording with a few comical surprises scattered throughout.
Layla (82)...
I don't know if it's just me, but when I watch a true crime show, if someone gets murdered or disappears, I still watch. If I see that there are animals in the house, I change channels. I don't want to know if they are also killed or tormented or abandoned.
AuntieAnn (#90), you should know better than to blame Dmasy for your trip down the rabbit hole. Dontcha know everything is JON'S fault?
PA Dutch Mom (91)
The story of abuse of the dog was in one of the books written about the case. After reading that--well, you couldn't convince me MP is not guilty. Anyone who could do that to a dog is capable of anything. He is evil. The only reason anyone is questioning his guilt is because he is so manipulative that he can convince others of anything he wants.
FYI, Kathleen Peterson grew up in Lancaster, PA! She was quite an accomplished woman. She achieved great things while MP lied about achievements he never accomplished. e claimed to have had two purple hearts. That was a lie. He made claims about injuries sustained in the Vietnam War that were actually the result of a car accident in Japan. He seemed to constantly be bragging about networks buying rights to his books but never seemed to have the money, and none of his books was made into a movie. Kathleen picked the wrong man, that's for sure, It went downhill from there.
Okay ladies, now you've pulled me in. I'm watching Episode 4 & must admit at this point Michael is quite convincing.
Layla -- your memory of the dog story is very accurate.
There is an event of Michael losing his temper (over the pool fountain hose) and in front of several witnesses MP beats the dog until Margaret physically stops him. That dog will later "drown" in the family pool. The litter mate of the dead bulldog will just disappear sometime. When asked, MP just said something dismissive about the dog dying.
Flimsy (92), I thought he might need a break. He's already shouldering the blame for reducing TFW to playing with little plastic cars and more than likely he's responsible for that volcano eruption in Hawaii, too.
PA Dutch Mom said... 91
Layla (82)...
I don't know if it's just me, but when I watch a true crime show, if someone gets murdered or disappears, I still watch. If I see that there are animals in the house, I change channels. I don't want to know if they are also killed or tormented or abandoned.
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PA, have you seen Dog Tales Rescue? I've tried watching it but I end up crying every time another abandoned or abused horse or dog is brought in, even though I know they're going to be treated with love and kindness at the sanctuary.
I think I'll only watch the last ten minutes from now on.
Jolie (94) -- I wonder about my judgement and how easily I have been swayed.
By Episode 4, I was caught in the charisma of Michael (albeit slimy sometimes). I was totally impressed with the support and affection offered to him from most of his close family.
Then I read the book and swayed to the prosecution. The family is not as stable and united as the documentary indicates. MP has a sister Ann who changes her allegiance due to evidence presented at the trial. The sons have a seriously checkered pasts. Accident or murder -- Todd is involved in ways that are never clear.
Two professional careers are destroyed during the trial. Neither man is probably as flawed as they are portrayed. MP had an excellent (and loyal) attorney who used all the angles he could to help Michael. Two experts were "shredded" to minimize the effect of their testimony.
The book has some insight into the juror's thoughts.
It details how they split until the time of unanimous. From day one of deliberation they never believed it was an accidental fall. They knew she was murdered and only had to wrestle with reasonable doubt if it was Michael. The jury decided early on not to focus on the death in Germany -- they felt that wasn't their responsibility. The blowpoke never mattered much. They weren't very distracted by the male escort. They didn't like Rudolf and his lack of sensitivity toward the family. The most compelling testimony was the medical examiner. They had confidence in her finding and her expertise.
Dmasy,
The dog story was what convinced me that MP was fundamentally evil. Who could be so brutal to a dog? We are all a bunch of animal lovers here, and we all just adore our dogs. That level of violence toward a dog is unfathomable.
I agree, Todd is involved. His behavior on the night of Kathleen's death was just too suspicious. He was up to something. I think MP did it, but I think Todd was involved somehow. Maybe helped MP clean up or hide evidence afterward...I don't know, but there's something there.
Did you read about the time MP and the kids passed off the girlfriend of one of his sons as Caitlin? There was a TV thing they did, and MP pressured Caitlin to be there to show her support for him. She refused because by that time she believed he killed her mother. So MP and the other kids--and the girlfriend of one of his sons--did the appearance without her, creating the impression that Caitlin was there and was supporting there and supported him. It was all about creating a certain impression. Seems like MP was always like that--he was concerned with appearances, not reality.
I always found it irritating that MP's kids (his sons and Margaret and Martha) called Kathleen their mom and acted like she raised them and was their mother, even though they were all adults when Kathleen died and had only been married to MP for 4 years. It's not like she raised them. She raised Caitlin. One of the boys suddenly started calling Kathleen "Mom" only after she died. Before that he called her by name. It's all about creating an impression.
Layla -- your memory of the dog story is very accurate.
There is an event of Michael losing his temper (over the pool fountain hose) and in front of several witnesses MP beats the dog until Margaret physically stops him. That dog will later "drown" in the family pool. The litter mate of the dead bulldog will just disappear sometime. When asked, MP just said something dismissive about the dog dying.
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I’m with you Layla, beat/hurt an animal and i’m Going t change the channel. I’d been thinking about watching it on Netflix but now I won’t. How can anyone abuse any dog let alone a bulldog! Bullys are so sweet and good natured. Even with tons of toys they’ll still find something to chew that they shouldn’t. They’re chewers. It’s the nature of the beast. I hang my purse in the closet with the door closed because my bully has a taste for fine leather.
Layla -- the story about the "substitute" Caitlin is in the book.
Also, the info about Todd never really liking Kathleen and refusing to use her name until after her death when he began calling her mom.
Not important to the mystery, but important to the "appearance" -- Todd's date on the night of the accident/murder was a married woman. She was in the house earlier in the evening and then returned with Todd later. Her testimony and observations were never used by the defense to avoid the revelation that she was having an affair with Todd.
NJGal -- You can watch the documentary if you wish. The dog beating is not mentioned in the pro Peterson presentation.
I watched The Staircase last week. I found MP to be a creepy old dude.
Blech!!
I’d like to know why the series was so slanted towards MP’s innocence when major elements indicating his guilt were omitted ( info provided in the book, etc).
What a misleading series!
I always found it irritating that MP's kids (his sons and Margaret and Martha) called Kathleen their mom and acted like she raised them and was their mother, even though they were all adults when Kathleen died and had only been married to MP for 4 years. It's not like she raised them. She raised Caitlin. One of the boys suddenly started calling Kathleen "Mom" only after she died. Before that he called her by name. It's all about creating an impression.
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The trend these days seems to be to totally treat stepmom or stepdad as your real dad or mom. A lot of kids do this. But in light of the circumstances, it seems particularly inappropriate for them to rub this in and take ownership over her when Caitlyn has lost the only mother she's ever had. They had three. She only ever had one.
Did the defense ever actually dispute the injuries themselves as found in the state's autopsy? The numerous lacerations, broken neck, head lacerations, bleeding out. Obviously there was huge disagreement of HOW, but it was unclear to me after watching if they could all agree yes, these are her injuries.
It's really interesting with behind-the-scene 16 mm home movies recorded by the queen herself and other members of the family. The Queen, Charles, William, Harry and others commenting and reflecting on the where and what was happening at the time the camera was recording with a few comical surprises scattered throughout.
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I've seen it. They are a nice family, quite normal behind closed doors. As I have said before if there is anything good that came out of Diana's death, it was a real shake-up of things there so they understood if we're going to get these boys through, we better start doling out a lot more love, affection and support. And they did, Charles led the way, the Queen fell into line, and they raised them up to feel supported and to make a difference in the world.
Admin - Todd had quite a bit of impact on that first night. He calls friends to come to the house. One is drunk and creates confusion. One is a medical student who introduces herself as a Doctor and offers to help. She stays around intrusive enough that she is finally asked to go into the den with Todd's date. They are instructed not to speak to each other until they are interview. Todd was also asked to remain silent, but he and Michael and Ben (the inebriated friend) continue to whisper to each other.
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Oh yeah, bring a drunk dude to a crime scene. Shaking my head.
FYI, Kathleen Peterson grew up in Lancaster, PA! She was quite an accomplished woman
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Yes, Kathleen Hunt grew up on Clay Street in an older section of the city and graduated first in her class from McCaskey High. There was a newspaper article about it years ago. I'll see if I can find it.
Watching ‘The King’s Speech’ on Netflix.
Excellent!!!
Old poster said... 108
Watching ‘The King’s Speech’ on Netflix.
Excellent!!!
+++
That's a great movie!
I saw the promo for The Staircase on Netflix. Isn't it weird that MP wanted to do a documentary about his wife's death and his trial? How did that happen? Did he contact someone? He must have, so no wonder it's so favorable to him. And he, of course, is performing. It's all an act--the perfect family farce, the cheesy "whispered her name in my heart" line, all of it. He's on stage and he loves it. He's a complete narcissist.
I saw the promo for The Staircase on Netflix. Isn't it weird that MP wanted to do a documentary about his wife's death and his trial? How did that happen? Did he contact someone? He must have, so no wonder it's so favorable to him.
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The director is French. I'm pretty sure the director contacted him after making another successful true crime film, and the documentary first aired in France before it was discovered as a real hidden gem and brought over here. The director himself actually says a part of him thinks he's guilty, so he's more fair than many people who have made other true crime stories like Making a Murder.
Agreeing to do it is a bit weird, though not the weirdest thing anyone has ever done. Some people want a platform to get their story out there because you never know who out there could help with your plight.
What's weird about it though is is he so delusional he thinks the filmmakers won't turn up all kinds of interesting things from his past? Knowing your past and that it could get exposed, you're fine with it? I think the average person would be mortified to have everyone know they were talking to hookers while happily married. In the early episodes of the documentary I think Michael was still trying to play off his homosexuality as just a fun little side thing he does, like a hidden talent for the harmonica. In the second half filmed years later he seems to be more willing to acknowledge the true extent of his sexuality and how it had been who he was since a child.
And apparently for many years Michael dated someone in production? This woman looks like all his other women! And she's bewitched by him too!
https://www.newsobserver.com/entertainment/tv/warm-tv-blog/article213085459.html
By the way the sitcom Trial and Error parodies the case, lol. Here's a clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jndqEx4dltg
Admin, per the article link you posted, it wasn't just someone in production he dated, it was the editor. No wonder the documentary favors the editor's lover.
Holy-does-he-have-a-type! Admin, I followed your link. When her picture filled my screen I thought she was Kathleen 15 years later.
Here is the last line from the article, "They had a real story, which lasted until May 2017. But she never let her own feelings affect the course of editing."
If she was able to maintain her objectivity while in love with him, she is a rare professional.
I think in defense of the documentary, it wasn't supposed to be a look at the case as a whole but a look at the case from the defense's perspective, how they put together a case. So dating Kathleen 2.0 or not, it's going to be biased. But, a whole lot of people came out of the documentary thinking he did it without ever having researched anything else, so it couldn't have been all that biased!
Here is the last line from the article, "They had a real story, which lasted until May 2017. But she never let her own feelings affect the course of editing."
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Wasn't he in prison for most of their love story? Freaking weird.
He has such a spell on women!
Our air conditioning went out on Wednesday. Air Tron thought they diagnosed the problem and ordered an electronic circuit board. Techs came last night to install. Not the correct solution. Two dedicated men were here from 5:00 till 1:00AM tracking down a short. Inside, outside and in the attic. The attic over the garage was around 110 degrees. At midnight, my hubby suggested they go home and come back in the morning. They informed him they would stay until they repaired our AC and then they had another house to go to.
Dedication.
I spent my time reading about Michael Peterson.
Here is one tidbit: Before rescue and police, someone went on the back patio to drink a Diet cola. There was a partially empty can with blood smears on it. That was a relaxed moment after an accident/murder.
Here is one tidbit: Before rescue and police, someone went on the back patio to drink a Diet cola. There was a partially empty can with blood smears on it. That was a relaxed moment after an accident/murder.
$$$
He was doing a lot of cleaning and got thirsty.
Here's the first part of the local story, about Kathleen...
"Tragic twist: Childhood friends here killed in N.C. 3 years apart
Kathleen Peterson and Dennis Rowe are victims of homicides in Durham, N.C. The unusual twist: In the 1970s, they were Clay Street neighbors and playmates.
Kathleen and her sisters, Rowe and his brothers — along with all the other kids in the city neighborhood —spent summers playing ball games in the street and board games on their front porches.
Hunt left Lancaster to attend Duke University. Years later, so did Rowe.
She stayed in Durham, N.C., becoming a leader in the arts community, hosting fund-raising parties in the mansion she shared with her novelist husband, Michael Peterson.
Rowe stayed in Durham, too, making a name for himself in the arts community as well, but as a designer of formal gowns and specialty pillows.
Three years ago, in December 2001, Kathleen Hunt Peterson, 48, was murdered in her home. Her husband was later tried, convicted and sentenced to life in prison.
Late last month, on Nov. 23, Rowe, 43, was found murdered in his home. A suspect has been charged but is not yet in police custody.
The sad coincidence has friends and former neighbors shaking their heads and remembering happier times for the two former Lancaster residents and their families.
“It was a tragedy and a coincidence,’’ George Glew, who still lives in the 100 block of East Clay Street, said today. “Too much of one.’’
Glew’s four children — now adults — were among the group of neighborhood children who grew up together as friends.
“They all played so nicely together,’’ Glew said. “All the kids were just wonderful.’’
About two of three months ago, Glew said he was cutting the grass when a woman, Kathleen Hunt Peterson’s younger sister, Lori, called out his name as she came walking up the street.
“She was back for a high school reunion and just wanted to walk up the old street, see who was still here,’’ Glew said, “She and my wife stood there talking for quite a while.’’
Naomi Nagy also still lives on the block, across the street from where the Rowes lived.
She remembers her son and daughter, along with the hoard of neighborhood children, running in and out of each others’ homes and playing board games late into the night on the Rowes’ front porch.
“This was a family block,’’ she recalled. “Traffic wasn’t as bad and they played baseball and softball in the street — they had look-outs of course. Dennis taught our son, Michael, how to play soccer goalie.’’
“The Rowe boys were a very well-mannered, young family and our children were back and forth all the time,’’ she said.
“It was a fun time,’’ Mrs. Nagy said.
As the children grew into adults they went their separate ways, some staying in Lancaster County and others, like Kathleen Hunt Peterson and Dennis Rowe, moving away."
More...
"Mrs. Peterson was born in Greensboro, N.C., but grew up on Clay Street in Lancaster, where local school records indicate she was an outstanding student.
Voted "Girl of the Year'' and "Lancaster Lass'' in the 1960s, Mrs. Peterson -- then Kathleen Hunt -- took Latin courses at Franklin & Marshall College while still in high school, where was president of the debate club and editor of the student magazine.
A member of the National Honor Society, she graduated first in her class in 1971 and was the first female student accepted into Duke University's School of Engineering.
After earning both her bachelor's and master's degrees from Duke, she entered the corporate world, traveling throughout Russia, Europe and Asia.
At the time of her death, Mrs. Peterson was vice president of Nortel Networks in Durham.
In 1997, she married Michael Peterson, a successful novelist, whose books include "A Bitter Peace'' and "A Time of War.''
Out by the pool always seemed like an odd fact to me, and I think if he did it, he placed himself there to pretend to be too far away to hear anything and get help.
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There was a local murder here, featured on one of the crime shows, 48 Hours.
Michael Roseboro, owner of a funeral home, killed his wife, Jan, and this also happened "out by the pool." The title of the show was "Lady In The Pool."
Over And Out said... 40
Since Kate has found a friend in IG, has she given up on her Twitter? If so, why would anyone waste their time tweeting on there if she isn't reading or responding and obviously not many people are commenting there?
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It looks like even the die-hard haters have moved on, leaving only one or two who keep tweeting. It really does seem to be a waste of time since Kate has abandoned it. Why bother?
@Lane Native I've notice that even some of her die hard fans like Ziggy for example have left Kate as well.Even when there were new episodes,some of her fans who tweeted how much they love the show have seem to of disappeared.I wonder if some of them aren't fans anymore.
I think it's hard for fans to maintain any interest in Kate. She blew that "perfect mother" image out of the water when she sent C away, and again when it became obvious that H didn't want to live with her. Plus, I think a lot of them were vicariously "winning" through her. Despite opposition, she was still filming, still making her kids work, etc, and they were only too happy to gloat about how she continued to do what she wanted, matter who might object. But now even they can't deny that filming was very harmful to C, and yet Kate still forced him to work. How can they justify doing that kind of harm to a child? A child who is struggling and who can't cope. I think a lot of them woke up and saw the "real" reality of it all, and it wasn't pretty. I think C and H are just the beginning of what we're going to see. A lot of damage was done to these kids, and Kate can't keep them quiet for much longer. Some will talk, and soon. And who wants to be there rooting for Kate when the full story of what she has done comes out?
So, uh, where do we think ol' Milo is on the last two IG photos? Another health emergency? A boycott mandated by #LOM? Or is she communicatin' with K8ie in those other ways she has? This is rather novel, two posts by K8 without Milo all over 'em. Sumpin's goin' on. :)
I think it's hard for fans to maintain any interest in Kate. She blew that "perfect mother" image out of the water when she sent C away, and again when it became obvious that H didn't want to live with her.
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Yes, it was lots of little things. I do think the real turning point was Collin though, where many of them seemed to just quietly slip away. From the fan's own comments, many of them either had a child with special needs or were very close to a child with special needs. There is sometimes an element of loneliness when you're caring for such a child, and isolation. I think they were drawn to Kate for validation of their own moments of frustration.
But what they would never, ever do, is send their boy or girl away, compare it to college, and go on with life like he or she never even existed. It was their wake-up call I think that she really is as cool and detached as we always told them she was.
I think TFW's fading fan base is also just due to the fleeting nature of celebrity. To remain super popular for more than a decade is an anomaly -- especially when you don't have any particular talent to share with the world. TFW's fans aren't breathlessly waiting for her latest movie, or book, or CD, or personal appearance tour. Right now all her eggs are in the dating show basket,
and that niche is already adequately filled by The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.
Also, the phenomenon of binge watching has drastically altered the viewing habits of the country since TFW was at the peak of fame. I can't imagine millions of people are anxiously counting down for the premiere of a dating show featuring a 43-year-old D-lister with 7 teenagers, when there is a veritable smorgasbord of streaming shows to engage them 24/7.
To remain super popular for more than a decade is an anomaly -- especially when you don't have any particular talent to share with the world. TFW's fans aren't breathlessly waiting for her latest movie, or book, or CD, or personal appearance tour. Right now all her eggs are in the dating show basket,
and that niche is already adequately filled by The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.
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Agree. And like has been said many times before she didn't really reinvent herself or do anything all that interesting (DWTS? Meh!). You're right, people are only going to stick with that so long.
And yes, you're also on point that TV habits are SOOO different than they were ten years ago, and the content so much better and full of niche shows. A lot of people are cutting cable, and likely wouldn't bother to fuss with TLC's steaming service just for one little show that's rarely on.
Jon posted an IG pic from the beach today (5 hours ago):
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkGPFUEg0K1/
jongosselin1
•
Brigantine, New Jersey
jongosselin1 Hello from the shore!!!
Comments on Jon's IG pic from longtime TFW fans:
barbgilmer1 Looking a little crispy there...
patriciachow0901 Nice tan going on there Jon.
patriciachow0901 Come to Vegas some time!
Sorry, I got that link wrong. Here it is:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkGPFUEg0K1/
"Jon posted an IG pic from the beach today (5 hours ago)"
I wonder if he has any of the children since it's Father's day weekend. I hope so. It was Mother's Day weekend he posted the Colin/Hannah picture. Kate never did comment on MD,did she?
Sad but true said... 124
So, uh, where do we think ol' Milo is on the last two IG photos? Another health emergency? A boycott mandated by #LOM? Or is she communicatin' with K8ie in those other ways she has? This is rather novel, two posts by K8 without Milo all over 'em. Sumpin's goin' on. :)
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I just checked Milo's Instagram and her last post was just over a week ago, on June 8th. That was the same day that TFW posted the pic of Nanuq sleeping with a pillow. Milo commented on that, but nothing since then on her own IG or on TFW's:
miloandjack2016 Its such a hard life to be a dog in @kateplusmy8 's house! Kate is so demanding on Nanuq! LOL. #SpoiledDog. #DogHeaven. This baby still OWNING your bed too?
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Spoiled dog? Dog heaven? Yes, Milo, the dogs are apparently treated much better than the kids. (Collin? Collin who?)
ncgirl (#131), No, I don't think TFW mentioned Mother's Day at all this year (a first). I bet she and her paid BFF Jaime were off filming Fake Date with Khate at that point, based on her Instagram:
Thursday, May 10th - She posted a pic of the kids' birthday cake
Sunday, May 13th - Mother's Day, and she skipped the usual phony bs post about what the kids did for her and gave her. (Last year, she posted a pic of the breakfast the kids made her and she claimed they bought her a new iPad)
Sunday, May 20th - She posted the pic of her and Jaime on a plane on their way home from "work".
"I bet she and her paid BFF Jaime were off filming Fake Date with Khate at that point, based on her Instagram"
Oh, yeah. I had blocked that out of my mind. "Hey kids, Mommy's going to celebrate Mother's Day by finding you a new Daddy!"
Former Lurker (#132), yeah, that sarcastic LOL comment from Gladys about Nookie Pookie is spot on for the some members of the family:
it's so hard to be a BOY in TFW'S house. She's kicked out 50% of the males (the 2-legged ones) already.
And you can't tell me that hasn't impacted J's and A's sense of security and comfort in their home.
I was just remembering how M told People magazine her father was "toxic." She was 15 at the time. I know a lot of girls that age, and that kind of description is neither in their vocabulary nor their mindset. They might roll their eyes at their dads, or call them unfair, or not cool, or too tough on them to get good grades, or always on them about not dressing appropriately. But "toxic?" That word came directly from the mouth of Katie Irene Gosselin, to be parroted by her daughter.
I'm sure M reaps benefits from that devotion to her mother's agenda. But the poor girl probably doesn't realize that she, too, could get kicked to the curb someday. Ask H how well being the "golden child" has worked out for her.
I was just remembering how M told People magazine her father was "toxic." She was 15 at the time. I know a lot of girls that age, and that kind of description is neither in their vocabulary nor their mindset.
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Adult ways of speaking is usually a dead ringer a kid is being coached. It is rare a child just naturally speaks in the manner Mady did. Unusually intelligent kids do or Asperger kids and that's about it.
I heard a 13 year old say once "These allegations are an UN-justice." Yeah, kids don't talk that way.
miloandjack2016 Its such a hard life to be a dog in @kateplusmy8 's house! Kate is so demanding on Nanuq! LOL. #SpoiledDog. #DogHeaven. This baby still OWNING your bed too?
Gladys has always been obsessed with Kate's bed, her bedroom and her bathroom. Remember when she tweeted about the candles in Kate's bathroom? I thought that was very creepy, but what can you expect from a creeper? :-)
Hannah posted a collage of pictures with Jon and a very sweet Father's Day message on her IG. The picture on the bottom left is of Jon and Collin, and C is wearing a shirt and tie. So that's another visit Jon made to C--it looks like he has seen him frequently. Funny, but H did not post anything on Mother's Day.
I wonder if there was a specific reason Jon was posting so many pictures with H (and C). He knew that would rile up Kate and her followers, and Kate couldn't help herself--she'd be compelled to run to court to stop him. She and Jon have both said they are court-ordered to NOT discuss custody arrangements, but Kate would see the posting of so many pictures of Jon & H to be a violation of that order--in spirit, at least. That could be Jon's opening to claim that it is also a violation if Kate posts pictures of the kids, so neither of them should be posting kid pics. Just speculation on my part, but neither Jon nor Kate has posted pictures of the kids for awhile. Also, there's that message Jon posted where he mentions all the photos he had been posting over the span of a week or so--it sounded like there was a specific reason for that. This right after Milo ran tattling to Kate with that "Busted!" post, helping to get her all riled up. Anyway--it could be argued that if posting pictures violates the court order, then filming would, too. All Jon needed to do was goad Kate into making a complaint instead of him. And he knows how to push her buttons!
Oops! I spoke too soon--Jon posted a photo with Colleen and Hannah (Colleen's birthday). Someone posted that the other kids should be with him and he responded, "Should be is not always possible when "certain" people are involved and don't want the best for their children". Gee, I wonder who he's talking about....
Bummer, I was hoping the court finally took some steps to protect the kids' privacy, but I guess I was wrong.
Looks like Hannah came along on their trip to Jersey. She looks so happy. I’m so happy that she gets to have a nice summer vacation without the dramatics of her mother, and no cameras.
It’s just a matter of time. Those kids are going to grow to hate TFW. She’s trying to keep them away from their father, who loves them. She’s kept them away from their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and family friends. One day, many of them will understand that SHE is the toxic one.
Anyone else of the opinion that Hannah no longer goes to the Kompound and the remaining kids who did visit Jon no longer visit Jon?
Did anyone see the post that Jon made a few days ago on IG that he has since removed about Rador Online? It looked like a screen shot of a message from someone at the Radar office in New York city. He said he was tired of people from Radar harassing him and his family and he wanted people to contact them and complain. It was interesting a few hours later he removed it.
I really don't understand why the other tups don't to follow Hannah's lead. Don't the boys want to see their brother? Doesn't Leah and maybe Alexis want to be reunited with H ? I can't believe they would want to stay with TFW at the price of not being happy and with their dad
143- Just a theory, Kate is getting revenge on Jon for getting full custody of Hannah . And now Jon’s made her look bad by posting about C. I have no doubt that she is furious with all of this. And now she is probably being a b$$$ by not letting him see the remaining kids
Has anyone noticed in the pictures of Collin he is looking directly at the camera, his eyes are not diverted or looking down or to the side. He looks so happy.
Hannah's collage says it all. She loves her Dad.
So there TFW!!!
Formerly Duped (#143), never underestimate the manipulative powers of a narcissist. Ask Jon Gosselin, who wanted only 2 kids and ended up with 8.
Who knows how TFW has convinced the remaining tups to stay with her. She may have used guilt on some -- "everybody always leaves me." Or downright lies about their father. Or bribes to make them stay. Bottom line: she needs to "win," and heaven knows what tactics she'll use.
143- Just a theory, Kate is getting revenge on Jon for getting full custody of Hannah . And now Jon’s made her look bad by posting about C. I have no doubt that she is furious with all of this. And now she is probably being a b$$$ by not letting him see the remaining kids
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Does Jon have full custody of Hannah? Do we know that he has no visitation rights for the other kids?
Anyway--it could be argued that if posting pictures violates the court order, then filming would, too.
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I'm totally lost. What does Jon's posting pictures of the kids have to do with TLC filming them?
Hannah sure does love her daddy! Love the collage of pictures she posted.
Lovely tribute from Hannah to her Dad on Father's Day, complete with beautiful collage of pictures of them and Collin.
bm
foxy said... 145
Has anyone noticed in the pictures of Collin he is looking directly at the camera, his eyes are not diverted or looking down or to the side. He looks so happy.
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Yes, he does look happy and I don't see a French manicured manhand cupped over his mouth either. So far two have been released from Singsing... one by force, one by choice. There's hope for the rest of those kids yet. It's just a matter of time.
Blowing (149)
I figured that if Kate could claim Jon is violating the court order by making it appear (through the pictures he has posted) that Hannah is with him, then wouldn't she be doing the same if she posts pictures of the kids with her, or hey are filmed with her? It was just a theory that maybe she would make some kind of claim that he is disclosing custody by posting so many pictures with H, but I may be wrong.
Foxy (145)
I noticed that, too. This is the child who used to clap his hands over his eyes when he saw a camera pointed at him, and now he hams it up with Hannah. He has come a long way. It's sad that Kate didn't protect him from the pap cameras when they clearly caused him distress. It has taken two years of treatment to undo some of the harm she has done to him--all in the name of fame. How can she live with herself? She must think she is blameless. It's good to see him ham it up and make goofy faces with H. He was so serious and forlorn for so long. He deserves to be happy.
Radar posted the picture of Jon, Colleen and H. Hurry, Gladys, tell TFW!
AuntieAnn (#152), and you have to wonder how the poor boy knows how to get from Point A to Point B without her giant hand steering his head.
Did anyone else see Hannah's Facebook Live post where fans were asking her questions? She said she lives with her dad & not her mom, so that answers that question!
Was Hannah Facebook live or instagram live, and is there a way to see the video after it was made?
This is great, Kate is not going to be able to stop these kids from talking!! And there they go! Congrats Hannah on being the first.
Interesting news on Hannah, and how impressive that it came from her. I wonder if visitation with her mother is required, or if she's truly out from under the yoke. She sure looks very happy in all the recent photos we've seen.
I'm so glad that Hannah has finally confirmed that she lives with her Dad. Finally we have some proof that the POS has lost at least one stronghold on one of the tups, more are to come. i'm betting that the next is Cara.
Here's Jon's Instagram post from earlier today:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkH--tPAcDZ/?hl=en&taken-by=jongosselin1
jongosselin1 Happy Birthday Colleen!!! Great dinner last night with Colleen, Hannah, Nonna and Dude!!!!
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And here's Hannah's IG post:
Hhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BkIQ4TYnRyd/?taken-by=itsmehjg
itsmehjg Happy Fathers Day Dad I love you so much your the best dad anyone could ever ask for I love our late night ice cream runs together your the best.
jongosselin1 Thank you HJ love you!!!!
Admin, my apologies, it was Instagram Live. I only watched a few minutes. I went back to see if it still shows up after it ended, but I didn't see it.
It’s good that Hannah was confident enough to say she wanted to live with her dad!
But... when one parent is like Kate ‘you’re either with me or against me’, it’s almost a guarantee that Hannah’s relationship with her mom is now non-existent. Kate removed her entire family, friends, church, husband, son, now a daughter from her life— there’s NO WAY Kate is okay with Hannah’s defiance.
What’s really sad is that with a parent like Kate, I’m sure the remaining kids at the compound are forbidden from speaking about Hannah or Colin.
And I bet Kate makes it clear the kids have to pick sides— it’s me or your siblings.
Kate’s damaged so many relationships.
Now she’s damaging relationships between the siblings.
RonnieandMaggie said... 142
Anyone else of the opinion that Hannah no longer goes to the Kompound and the remaining kids who did visit Jon no longer visit Jon?
Did anyone see the post that Jon made a few days ago on IG that he has since removed about Rador Online? It looked like a screen shot of a message from someone at the Radar office in New York city. He said he was tired of people from Radar harassing him and his family and he wanted people to contact them and complain. It was interesting a few hours later he removed it.
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I missed that Instagram post. Interesting.
foxy said... 145
Has anyone noticed in the pictures of Collin he is looking directly at the camera, his eyes are not diverted or looking down or to the side. He looks so happy.
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It's great to see Collin looking so good and so happy with Jon!
"I'm in charge, and that's never gonna change." Until it did.
And it couldn't happen to a nicer shrew.
FlimsyFlamsy said... 154
Radar posted the picture of Jon, Colleen and H. Hurry, Gladys, tell TFW!
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Here it is:
https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/06/jon-gosselin-and-galpal-colleen-celebrate-fathers-day-her-birthday-with-hannah/
What Will Kate Say?
Jon Gosselin Celebrates Father’s Day And Galpal’s Birthday With Daughter
Ex-TV star continues to bond with his girl Hannah -- and new love Colleen!
By Radar Staff
Posted on Jun 17, 2018 @ 10:48AM
Jon Gosselin posted a loving group photo of himself, his daughter Hannah, and his girlfriend Colleen Conrad.
The three have a lot to celebrate as Jon continues to bond with Hannah amid rumors she could be living with him.
The former Jon & Kate Plus 8 star who went through a nasty divorce with former wife Kate Gosselin shared the smiling snap on Sunday from the night before. He wrote as a caption, “Happy Birthday Colleen!!! Great dinner last night with Colleen, Hannah…!!!!”
Fans wished Jon a “happy Father’s Day” in response. One also wrote, “P.S Happy Birthday Colleen! What a great role model you are for the girls!” As Radar recently reported, Conrad, who graduated from nursing school, has been a rock for Jon.
The 41-year-old father-of-eight has found himself in financial trouble in the midst of an apparently expensive custody battle with Kate, 43. Galpal Conrad helped Jon set up a GoFundMe page to cover the cost of his legal fees.
Jon is dad to his eight kids with Kate, twins Mady and Cara, and sextuplets Aaden, Alexis, Collin, Hannah, Joel, and Leah, who recently turned 14. Jon took a road trip with daughter Hannah before Memorial Day, causing talk that the girl might be living with him now. While the custody issues with ex-wife Kate are unclear, Jon’s social media posts show he’s been spending lots of time with Hannah lately!
The divorced father documented his happy vacation with Hannah on Instagram, which followed Jon celebrating his previously MIA son Collin’s birthday.
On May 25, Jon posted a cryptic video in which he said, apparently referencing Hannah, “I’d like to thank everyone for their love and support during this week. Obviously, you know the situation. If you don’t know the situation you should get together with a friend or anyone who understands the situation.”
As RadarOnline.com has exclusively reported, Kate has been demanding thousands from her ex-husband in a bitter new legal battle.
Jon is currently working as a DJ.
Sandylove said... 156
Did anyone else see Hannah's Facebook Live post where fans were asking her questions? She said she lives with her dad & not her mom, so that answers that question!
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Wow, that's great. Thanks for the info. I'd love to see that video.
Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said... 157
This is great, Kate is not going to be able to stop these kids from talking!! And there they go! Congrats Hannah on being the first.
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It took a few years, but TFW's directive finally came back to bite her in the ass: "[Use] your words! "It's your chance. Spit it out."
Hehe. Yes, indeed. Go Hannah, go!
(https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kate-gosselin-scolds-twins-during-today-show-interview-for-not-talking-spit-it-out-2014161/)
FlimsyFlamsy said... 155
AuntieAnn (#152), and you have to wonder how the poor boy knows how to get from Point A to Point B without her giant hand steering his head.
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You know, maybe that's what got him sent away in the first place. Maybe he just dug those talons out of his scalp one day and said 'enough'. And then it was bye bye Collin. Can't you almost hear her telling him you're just like your father.
She & Jon were walking on the beach in New Jersey at sunset which she showed. It was really windy & she was worried people couldn't hear her so she asked & they responded they could. She gave her phone to Jon briefly because she wanted to put her hair up because it was blowing in her face. So he was showing the beautiful sky to everyone & showed Atlantic City in the background distance.
She seemed REALLY happy & not bothered by the questions people were asking. And Jon was well aware that she was responding. It was two separate questions she answered. The first was "Yes, I live with my dad" when asked if she lives with him and then a couple minutes later answering if she still lived with her mom & she said "No, I do not live with my mom". Someone asked if she still sees her brothers & sisters & she said that she did but she didn't explain further.
Someone asked if she had been homeschooled & she said no, that she went to school & they were on summer break now.
I couldn't watch more because I was on my phone & in my car & didn't have Wi-Fi where I was & was almost out of GB. I know that Facebook Live usually is saved as a video but I don't know if Instagram has that as I'm a little new to it. But I tried to find it & couldn't.
She & Jon just seemed so happy & close.
Paige posted this comment on TFW's latest IG post (the pic of the car from the Life game):
pc08 Why’d you block me on Twitter Kate?
Sandylove (#170), thanks for writing that description of what you saw.
We can only imagine TFW's rage at her daughter's "betrayal."
Meanwhile, betrayal isn't a strong enough word for the way TFW has tried, and continues to this day, to destroy their father professionally, financially and even legally.
But it looks like the goslings are coming home -- rather, leaving home -- to roost.
She & Jon were walking on the beach in New Jersey at sunset which she showed. It was really windy & she was worried people couldn't hear her so she asked & they responded they could. She gave her phone to Jon briefly because she wanted to put her hair up because it was blowing in her face. So he was showing the beautiful sky to everyone & showed Atlantic City in the background distance.
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Does anyone else love that Jon was right there with her when she went live? It says a lot both about his parenting and her trust in him.
Kids this age are going to get on social media whether you approve. So you might as well foster a relationship of mutual trust and one in which it's understood that you are going to oversee both what you post on social media and the interactions with others on it, as well as have the ability to shut down anyone and anything that is inappropriate. Well done, Jon.
Admin (#173), and I love that H was noticing a beautiful sky in good ol' JERSEY! So much for TFW's golden platter nonsense which she only invented so she could get HERSELF some sweet vacays and other assorted freebies.
It's never been about her children's best interest. Not for a minute.
I really wonder now what's happened with visitation with the other three "usual" kids. I can't imagine there'd be any way K8 could refuse these visits, but I wonder how much pressure is put on those children to decide NOT to go visit dad. The one thing that is clear about Hannah's liberation is that things must have been pretty dreadful at that house for her to stand up and say no mas.
How can Kate hope to keep a lid on this now?
NJGal51, and any other Jersey girls, please know my comment #174 was to point out that LOCAL places can be just as lovely and memorable as long-distance locales. Wouldn't want you to think I was disparaging the amazing Garden State!
Comment on K8's Twitter:
@Kateplusmy8 H was on IG live last night & discussed custody w/ Jon after he said he had “3 or 4” Coronas. Also said you “handcuffed” her.
"Handcuffed"??? Good lord.
I remember the comments from some time ago bashing Jon for not doing more to see his kids. Some said he was a wimp, a deadbeat who didn't care about his kids, and if those were their children they'd stop at nothing to get them back and fight for custody.
Many pointed out that we didn't know what he was doing behind the scenes, and to let him take care of it in the best and only way he knew how.
I realize that only one child is currently living with him, but hey, it's a start and we now see what a loving father he is, one who can and is providing a stable home for her in which she obviously is very happy.
Didn't Kate once say that Hannah is the one with whom she really bonded? She was always the golden child. I wonder what happened to cause such a relationship reversal.
Flimsy Flamsy, no problem. I wish I'd thought to take notes of everything she said but I was actually at the cemetery visiting my dad's grave for Father's Day so my mind was somewhere else. I also figured other people here saw it and would be commenting on it, since I don't post very often but read everyday.
However I do remember now someone asking her if the other kids had Instagram and she said that they did but they no longer do. The way she said it I took it to mean Kate took it away. Someone also asked her if she got along with her mom and she said something along the lines of (but not verbatim because I can't remember) "pretty much" which got a strong reaction from Jon who said incredulously "pretty much?!" or whatever it was she said.
People asked her what her favorite food and TV shows were. She said she was a vegetarian. She like several shows including Grey's Anatomy and others I can't remember now.
If I remember anything else I'll post again. I really wanted to continue watching it but couldn't.
Kate will be mad as a wet hen when she finds out about Hannah's IGLive comments. She can get a court order to silence Jon about custody arrangements, but not Hannah. Her favorite child not only broke away from her iron grip, but told the world about it.
I agree, things must have been awful at home for Hannah to be so desperate to leave, even leaving her siblings behind to get away. She was shunned, berated, and physically abused (the incident where Kate hurt H's arm last summer), but she didn't stop fighting. I imagine the other tups saw what H went through to get away, and don't want to go through that. I wonder how long this fight was going on before H got away. Filming stopped suddenly when the tups turned 14. Kate was spotted in July on vacation with 6 of her kids. We know C wasn't there, but I suspect H wasn't, either. She wasn't visible in any of the vacation pictures Kate posted, and one showed 4 tups--2 boys and 2 girls in the water together, but where was the third girl? Then came the incidents that were reported (dentist's office and H's arm injury). This was a long, drawn-out fight, but Hannah prevailed. I 'm not surprised if the others don't want to go through that, though. I suspect they know that Jon loves them and is there for them no matter what, and he won't cut them off because they live with their mother. It wouldn't be the same if they chose to live with Jon. Kate is too vindictive to love them in spite of where they live.
I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything from her about how much she loves her mom, or saying Kate is the best mom ever. But she does say those things about her dad. That tells you a lot about him as a father.
Flimsy - I knew what you meant. I’m from Ocean Grove and it is one of the most beautiful towns on the Jersey Shore.
Handcuffed? I'd love to get this transcript and wouldn't this be evidence for the GAL to instigate more investigation into Kate and the other kids...isn't that was was rumored about Collin and the zipties? Please let those other children find the strength to break free and Jon to get the legal resources to help them.
Sad but true (177)
Hannah said Kate handcuffed her??? What kind of mom does that to her child? Of course, Kate's fans have to run and tattle to her. They just want Kate to shut Hannah down so they can continue to believe that Kate is a good mother. As we always suspected, the kids will speak out about the abuse. We just didn't expect it to happen so soon. I'm a little surprised at TLC, though. They knew about Kate abusing the kids, and they knew that it would likely come out one day. You'd think they'd distance themselves from Kate--they don't need another scandal. But they continue to stick by her. They deserve any blame that comes their way.
Oh, no! Jon drank beer! And then went for a walk! Sheesh, these people need to get over it. Adults sometimes drink. Kate sure does, judging by the full wine rack and the cases of wine we have seen pictured at her house.
I don't read Kate's IG comments, but--has anyone seen any of the fans asking about a new man? Kate was off with Jamie, filming this dating show, which was supposedly about finding a man for Kate. So--if she was indeed looking for one, then wouldn't they be curious about him? Milo was losing her mind over her fantasies about Kate and Vann. But even the fans seem to know that the dating show is all fake, and Kate was never looking for a man. She just wanted to film.
Sandylove (#170), thanks for letting us know what Hannah said on the live video. It's so good to know that's she a smart, strong girl who seems very happy with her dad and very close to him.
I can't imagine what the various sibling relationships are like in that family with the eight kids growing up under three different roofs. It's really a shame. It didn't have to be this way, and it's all on TFW for being a nasty, controlling, bitter, vindictive person.
It appears that Jon and Hannah must have fought very hard for this change in custody, ever since the incidents last summer.
And, I think this answers some questions about the new Fake Date with Khate show. With Hannah and Collin both gone, there was no way TLC could continue filming ("Khate Plus Six"?). It's still a wonder why they didn't just cut TFW loose, but maybe there was some contractual obligation to give her a go with her own show. I still hope it never airs.
I guess I'm late to this party, but did someone actually hear Hannah say Kate handcuffed her???? OMG it's worse than I even thought and I have hated her as a mother for years.
Aurelie Corinthios, PEOPLE's newly appointed Gosselin expert, wrote a piece about Hannah spending Father's Day with her dad; she even included a snapshot of Hannah's touching collage. Of course, it wouldn't be a PEOPLE magazine story without the writer dredging up the old Mady and Cara interview, and reminding us yet again that Jon and the twins are estranged. Must they include that irrelevant piece of news in EVERY story they run about Jon or Kate? Cafe Mom and In Touch also posted stories about Hannah and Jon, without the nasty PEOPLE magazine / Mady and Cara angle included.
Jon said he had been handcuffed by the custody schedule. Hannah really didn’t seemed like she had anamostiy towards Kate or her siblings which I thought was healthy. I think one of her aunts was watching. Her aunt was going somewhere and Hannah wanted to go. Jon encouraged that. Hannah plays lacrosse, basketball, and she would like to play soccer. She likes a show called Night Shift on Netflix. I thinks that’s it
Was it Jon or Hannah that made the handcuffed comment? If it was Jon that said that TFW "handcuffed" Hannah maybe he was speaking metaphorically meaning that while living with TFW Hannah wasn't allowed to do anything or lead a normal life. I'd hate to think that he was speaking literally although I do remember some discussion on zip ties.
Milo was losing her mind over her fantasies about Kate and Vann.
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Don't forget the "Grow-A Boyfriend." She obsessed over that for a very long time! She just wouldn't let it go.
I looked it up. Instagram live is only available for 24 hrs.
Longtime TFW fan commenting on Hannah's Father's Day Instagram post:
patriciachow0901 Happy Father's Day Jon, Love seeing you two together, and Hannah you're so sweet & beautiful too.
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I hope some of TFW's fans are finally realizing that it did not have to be this way. TFW has been the problem for years, alienating the kids from Jon
I just want to reiterate, the "handcuffed" comment was from someone on Twitter who'd said s/he had listened to Hannah's IG live. But wasn't there some discussion, and I believe this was the first time we heard about comments H had made (this was around the time of the filmed Mexico trip, when H refused to leave Jon's and go home with K8), that K8 had restrained Collin by tying his hands or something? This was when it first came out that she was mistreating C, and it was around the same time, I believe, that he had to leave LCDS (so, a year before he was sent away). It's not a stretch, in my mind, that H could have experienced the same sort of abuse.
If this is true, then there's every reason for her to lose the rest of the kids. But maybe none of them backed up H's comments. You can only imagine what Kate would do/say to prevent them from leaving.
Layla said... 180
I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything from her about how much she loves her mom, or saying Kate is the best mom ever. But she does say those things about her dad. That tells you a lot about him as a father.
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Layla, I was thinking the same. What a stark contrast in how we see Hannah's love for Jon and her close relationship with him versus what TFW has always told us the kids say about her. She's always claimed the kids say she's the best mother ever, but never once have we heard something like that directly from the kids. Also, as someone else pointed out, it's interesting that Hannah didn't do a Mother's Day post.
Former Lurker (171)
Kate blocked Paige on Twitter, eh? Didn't Paige write something nice on Jon or Hannah's IG? Kate won't stand for her fans being nice to Jon or Hannah. I bet there are more she's blocked, or will block when she finds out. I can just picture her, scrolling through the comments on their IGs, making a list of all her fans who made supportive comments to either one of them. She is vengeful, no doubt about it.
Aurelie Corinthios, PEOPLE's newly appointed Gosselin expert, wrote a piece about Hannah spending Father's Day with her dad; she even included a snapshot of Hannah's touching collage. Of course, it wouldn't be a PEOPLE magazine story without the writer dredging up the old Mady and Cara interview, and reminding us yet again that Jon and the twins are estranged. Must they include that irrelevant piece of news in EVERY story they run about Jon or Kate?
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It looks like copying and pasting at this point. I figure Aurelie has to put that in or see Conye lose her mind and sit on her or something.
Sandylove (179)
I'm not surprised that Hannah said she "pretty much" got along with her mother. Hannah realizes by now that she doesn't want to say or do anything to set her mother off, or it will get ugly. Kate will take it out on both Hannah and Jon. So Hannah gave a dismissive answer to that question and moved on (but Jon was incredulous, which shows that things aren't really "pretty much" okay). Kate has taught those kids that she is not someone to be crossed. I'm sure that's why the others aren't fighting to be with Jon. They just don't want to fight that battle. It would be ugly, and they know it. If I were them, I'd probably stay quiet and stay at home. I don't know here Hannah got the courage and strength to fight that long battle, but she did. That's pretty amazing.
I figure Aurelie has to put that in or see Conye lose her mind and sit on her or something.
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Yeah don't make the captain of Kate's cheerleading squad too mad, Aurelia. She gives new meaning to the phrase spittin' angry.
Hannah's comment "I love our late night ice cream runs together" struck me as so sweet. As we've said many times before, it's not the "golden platter" moments kids cherish and remember fondly as adults. It's "mediocre", mundane moments like those. I love how Jon is trying to make Hannah's life as normal as possible.
Hannah's comment "I love our late night ice cream runs together" struck me as so sweet.
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Indeed I noticed that two of the other tabs that picked up the Father's Day story titled their headline "sweet" post from Hannah. It was only People that had a factual, detached headline. I picture Coyne standing over the copyeditor's shoulder making sure he doesn't try to sneak in any superlatives she doesn't approve of in the headline like sweet or adorable or touching.
I could be wrong but I assumed the handcuffed comment was a metaphor. People use that word all the time to simply mean someone is strongly forcing them. Not that they ACTUALLY handcuffed them.
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